How have you handled uniform Nazis?

[Dubs]

At AETC bases: A buddy who started class today was at Altus before. They got to wear flightsuits ONLY after completeing IFS (I guess the reg says something about "completeing a formal flying training program").

I'm guessing this is the rule at Randolph?

[pawnman]

The casuals here at Dyess are all in bags.

Who issues those flight suits, the unit they're assigned to on casual or their UPT base? Are they going to get a second flight gear issue when they check in at the UPT base?

[Hotel]

So what's the definition of "contingencies"?

3.2.9. Socks. White socks may be worn with boots. During exercises and contingencies, wear black

socks, or black socks over the white socks to preclude white socks from showing. Socks should be

made of cotton or wool.

[Guest Flyin' AF Hawaiian]

Not sure how it works at other bases, but here at Charleston they only give us casual dudes one or two flight suits. Anything extra we have to try and scam out of the flying squadrons.

[Guest Boom]

Anyone wear the new puke green boots with their bags? I just got issued some since they no longer order black ones here anymore.

[Vandal]

kinda following along the lines here, is there a reg existing that says basically "thou shalt not show socks in BDUs"? We have a real issue around my Det with this and i can't find it in our regs. any hints or links would be great. It is kinda of a pet peeve of mine since it looks like shit to see 1-2 inches of sock between boot and pant leg.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Vandal, I know it's the inherently gay ROTC and AETC world, but that reeks of shoe-ism...

...Now, granted, I'll say this - the pants are supposed to be BLOUSED, not tucked into the boots. And the blousing job isn't supposed to be spandex-tight against your calves, but bloused out...that's what blousing means. Basically so you can sit down without your BDUs riding up.

Leave that skin-tight shit to CTA and MTI homos. That's Lackland gayness right there. Doesn't need to go any further.

[Guest Justshootme]

I'm guessing this is the rule at Randolph?

Guess again. BDU's till you class up and Blues for the first 6+ weeks until you pass your EP exam.

[Herk Driver]

So what's the definition of "contingencies"?

3.2.9. Socks. White socks may be worn with boots. During exercises and contingencies, wear black

socks, or black socks over the white socks to preclude white socks from showing. Socks should be

made of cotton or wool.

Well that would normally be your war that Congress hasn't declared as a war. So OIF and OEF would count as a contingency.

As noted above, just don't agree to let them see your socks. There are lots of SNCOs walking around using the Wing/CCs name most times as there source of authority, btw.

The way I read this, if you can't see my white socks while I'm walking around then I am complying with the intent of the reg. (i.e. the white socks are not "showing"). Yet another reason some of those dudes deployed to the AOR need to be sent home.

[Riddller]

Who issues those flight suits, the unit they're assigned to on casual or their UPT base? Are they going to get a second flight gear issue when they check in at the UPT base?

I was able to get 3 bags out of my RA while casual. I don't think I'll be telling that to the guys here at Vance who'll be issuing me a few more!! You can never have too many flight suits...

[Guest Sparky]

Guess again. BDU's till you class up and Blues for the first 6+ weeks until you pass your EP exam.

Depends on if your casual at Randolph for Nav training or just there for a short stint before PCS'ing for pilot training. The casuals in the OP's group wear bags (at least the ones I have seen in the 559th)

[outbreak]

Here at Randolph, during casual I was in BDU's. I haven't ironed my BDU's in over a year. I didn't polish my boots (they were black IAW the regs) and since then I let my hair get to hippie lengths before getting it cut every 3-4 weeks. my bag is zipped no higher than the bottom of the name patch. The legs are never zipped, nor are the leg pockets. I haven't worn black socks in 6 months, which was about the last time i polished my boots. no one ever says a word.

In ROTC, if I didn't get a haircut within 15 min of a gate inspection, I'd get gigged. We got issued flight suits when we got our slots so for your senior year, you got to wear a bag in lieu of BDU's. I had some [future] shoe clerk try to gig me on cables on my bag, so a bunch of us who had bags got together and convinced everyone that there is a reg out there banning the cutting of cables off flight suits because it could compromise the structural integrity of the flight suit. If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit.

[brickhistory]

Here at Randolph, during casual I was in BDU's. I haven't ironed my BDU's in over a year. I didn't polish my boots (they were black IAW the regs) and since then I let my hair get to hippie lengths before getting it cut every 3-4 weeks. my bag is zipped no higher than the bottom of the name patch. The legs are never zipped, nor are the leg pockets. I haven't worn black socks in 6 months, which was about the last time i polished my boots. no one ever says a word.

This one bothered me since I read it this morning.

What you are writing is not a source of pride or 'putting one over on the man.' You were/are casual? And you can't be unassed to wear the uniform 90% correctly?

Not talking about the socks or other BS, but imagine the respect you instill in every one you meet when your BDUs look like a turd (at least according to your description), and your bag looks like a leisure suit and you haven't done anything more than get commissioned.

Deployed is one thing, but stateside and just hanging around getting paid = weak, in my opinion.

Guess it's a good thing I'm 30 days and counting....................................

[Guest tollfree969]

Here at Randolph, during casual I was in BDU's. I haven't ironed my BDU's in over a year. I didn't polish my boots (they were black IAW the regs) and since then I let my hair get to hippie lengths before getting it cut every 3-4 weeks. my bag is zipped no higher than the bottom of the name patch. The legs are never zipped, nor are the leg pockets. I haven't worn black socks in 6 months, which was about the last time i polished my boots. no one ever says a word.

WOW! Is it "cool" to act like you don't care about looking like shit?

[JP84U2]

Here at Randolph, during casual I was in BDU's. I haven't ironed my BDU's in over a year. I didn't polish my boots (they were black IAW the regs) and since then I let my hair get to hippie lengths before getting it cut every 3-4 weeks. my bag is zipped no higher than the bottom of the name patch. The legs are never zipped, nor are the leg pockets. I haven't worn black socks in 6 months, which was about the last time i polished my boots. no one ever says a word.

In ROTC, if I didn't get a haircut within 15 min of a gate inspection, I'd get gigged. We got issued flight suits when we got our slots so for your senior year, you got to wear a bag in lieu of BDU's. I had some [future] shoe clerk try to gig me on cables on my bag, so a bunch of us who had bags got together and convinced everyone that there is a reg out there banning the cutting of cables off flight suits because it could compromise the structural integrity of the flight suit. If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit.

Douchebags like you are the reason the rest of us have to endure bullshit like "sock checks"! It sounds as if you are proud of looking like a bag of ass...I don't get it. The reason "no one ever says a word" is probably because they have already mentaly labeled you a shitbag and are not willing to waste the breath it takes to correct you.

Humps

[Guest Justshootme]

Here at Randolph, during casual I was in BDU's. I haven't ironed my BDU's in over a year. I didn't polish my boots (they were black IAW the regs) and since then I let my hair get to hippie lengths before getting it cut every 3-4 weeks. my bag is zipped no higher than the bottom of the name patch. The legs are never zipped, nor are the leg pockets. I haven't worn black socks in 6 months, which was about the last time i polished my boots. no one ever says a word.

In ROTC, if I didn't get a haircut within 15 min of a gate inspection, I'd get gigged. We got issued flight suits when we got our slots so for your senior year, you got to wear a bag in lieu of BDU's. I had some [future] shoe clerk try to gig me on cables on my bag, so a bunch of us who had bags got together and convinced everyone that there is a reg out there banning the cutting of cables off flight suits because it could compromise the structural integrity of the flight suit. If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit.

I'll jump on this one too...Anyone still curious why bag-wearing LT's get treated like idiots and children? Anyone? Bueler?

Seriously dude, you're a college graduate and an officer. Grow up. I am not a regs-worshiping guy, but please show me the part in the -2903 that says rules don't apply to you because you are special. Are you a nav stud? If so, I pray to God you wind up on AWACS or RJ's or some similar jet where you have the least amount of responsibility and the least chance of killing someone. "Pilot, left 360 orbit, wake me up in 3 hours. I'm going to sleep because I suck at life."

[outbreak]

Damn, I didn't expect such an uprising. I never said my shit was out of regs. I keep it in regs and I wear my uniform proudly. The reason no one said anything was that I WAS in regs and still am. I just don't dress like a ######ing tool-bag marine wannabe with a high and tight, spandex blousing, and more starch than a ######ing bottle of stay-flo. chill the hell out guys. I knew guys that thought they were good officers cuz their BDU's could stand at attention without them wearing them. I'm just saying I'm not that guy. I didn't look like a bag of ass. I wouldn't tolerate that, especially of myself. I exaggerated a bit to make a point. Ease up.

[Guest C-130]

Getting a little off topic, thanks

"Post some good examples of how to handle uniform Nazis and rules which hinder aircrew flow, etc. What has worked in the past, what can be done? Let's spread the word."

[slacker]

Getting a little off topic, thanks

"Post some good examples of how to handle uniform Nazis and rules which hinder aircrew flow, etc. What has worked in the past, what can be done? Let's spread the word."

I was walking into the hospital and instinctively placed my sunglasses on my head. I made it about 20 feet in, a MSgt said- "Hey, you can't wear your sunglasses on your head." Not "excuse me sir... or excuse me Capt..." So I stopped, flipped down my sunglasses over my eyes and kept walking. His look was priceless.

[brabus]

So I stopped, flipped down my sunglasses over my eyes and kept walking. His look was priceless.

hahahaha, that's awesome. That's something I wish I would have thought of.

[Guest doofus]

I looked it up...unfortunately it is in writing...complete bullshit IMHO but it is in the reg.

AFI36-2903 2 AUGUST 2006

Chapter 3.2

3.2.9. Socks. White socks may be worn with boots. During exercises and contingencies, wear black

socks, or black socks over the white socks to preclude white socks from showing. Socks should be

made of cotton or wool.

Interesting thing about this, if I'm not mistaken, is that we are specifically instructed NOT TO BLOUSE YOUR BOOTS in the AOR due to sand-critters, fleas, etc. This means your pants are tucked in....and if they're tucked in, how could your socks possibly show? I personally do NOT blouse my boots...ever....and have never heard jack from anyone about it (deployed or otherwise).

As an E-7 at the moment (supposedly one of those "crusty" guys that cares about this BS), if anybody below the rank of O-6 EVER asked to see my socks, and then attempted to correct me on the issue, I would pull them aside, politely remind them that a war is on, inform them of the fact that my job requires me to work 14 hours per day, with no days off, in support of that war effort...and if they've got time to worry about my socks then they CLEARLY don't have enough to do. "People are dying out there and you're concerned with SOCKS?? What kind of message does THAT send??" Since they don't have enough to do, I would kindly invite them out to my work area and offer to give them something more important to work on.

BTW...I can't imagine EVER being approached on the subject by anybody above the rank of O-3 (everybody else is too busy, and they typically don't promote complete idiots to O-4).

Uniform regs are there for a reason and serve a purpose. However they aren't there for EVERY reason and they don't serve EVERY purpose. You still have to think, and they are often open to interpretation in some cases...the sock example being one of them. Having "spit-shined" boots is another.

The best way to deal with these idiots, as suggested, is to know your sh!t. If specific guidance has been given, either follow it or accept responsibility for NOT following it. Be smart enough to know what the reg says...and also what it DOESN'T say...and be smart enough to use your brain and know the difference. Use good judgement...even when the other guy clearly doesn't have the capacity.

If you look like crap, or it's some obvious transgression, that's one thing. But if some dummy is no kidding going to call you out because your belt is sticking out 2mm further than it's supposed to (or because you have the wrong color of underwear on) then that individual needs to get their priorities straight, and I would submit that its up to you to "mentor" them. Mentorship doesn't always have to occur from the top down.

Edited December 23, 2007 by doofus

[Champ Kind]

... and they typically don't promote complete idiots to O-4.

You're right. The lobotomy comes at a later date.

I wish I still had the base-wide email sent at my "deployed location" from a certain O-6. It addressed the wearing of PT gear and admonished the phenomenon that was starting to occur across the base known as the "fake front tuck" (his words). He went on to say that the PT gear situation was "out of control" and yadda yadda yadda... Nevermind we were flying XXXX sorties per day with XX% mission effectiveness. We need to squash this PT gear situation!

"Out of control." UFB.

[Whitman]

Just make sure you don't let the enlisted flyers give you too much crap for wearing a flight suit on casual. It was funny at first but the "you don't have wings and shouldn't wear a flight suit" argument got old. I was always too disinterested to look up the reg and decided that if they wanted to push the issue they could talk to my boss about it.

BTW, Whiting guys wear BDU's on casual.

[Guest Boom]

Just make sure you don't let the enlisted flyers give you too much crap for wearing a flight suit on casual. It was funny at first but the "you don't have wings and shouldn't wear a flight suit" argument got old. I was always too disinterested to look up the reg and decided that if they wanted to push the issue they could talk to my boss about it.

BTW, Whiting guys wear BDU's on casual.

3.2.1.1. The FDU/DFDU is authorized for wear by; personnel assigned to a position identified

with Aircrew Position Identifier (API) 1 thru 9 and A thru G (Rated Officers or Career Enlisted

Aviators 1AXXX), Rated officers assigned to an API-0 positions that are on active aeronautical

orders, or those personnel identified as Operations Support/Non-interference flyers currently on

active aeronautical orders to perform inflight aircrew or parachutist duties IAW AFI 11-401, Aviation

Management, Atch 3, or as authorized in AS016. Additionally, the FDU/DFDU is authorized

for wear by personnel in the following Space/Missile Crew AFSCs 13SXA, 13SXB, 13SXC,

13SXD, 13SXE and 1C6XX. Airmen authorized special articles of clothing under an allowance

standard will wear the uniform prescribed by the local unit commander and recommended for the

type of mission performed. FDUs/DFDUs are authorized functional clothing for those authorized

individuals performing flying, parachutist, space and missile crew duties: Flight duty includes

preparation, preflight, in-flight, post-flight, and other flight-related duties associated with aircraft

operations. Space operations duties will be defined by MAJCOM supplement to this instruction.

3.2.1.2. Flight clothing worn by personnel not on aeronautical orders (authorized under AS016) is

restricted to flight-related duties. These personnel may not wear flight clothing on days when

actual flying is not planned/anticipated. EXCEPTION: Space/Missile crew FDU/DFDU wear

guidance will be outlined in MAJCOM supplements to this instruction.

[Hercster]

I guess techinically I'm not supposed to be wearing a bag then. Whoops...Not like I'm going to change that or anything. :) My unit gave me four of them and it'd be a shame to not use them.