Fuel Conservation

[amcflyboy]

You guys are really making me appreciate my 5-6K per hour fuel burn.

"2"

[sputnik]

This is for real. When you go to the site, you'll see MDS listed. Click on your airframe of choice, it'll break it down to the different Wings. Click on your Wing of choice, it'll break it down to Squadron. Click on our your Squadron of choice and it'll show it broken down by AC name. Click on the AC name and it will break it down to each mission.

The system is kind of slow in updating however. My name still shows up with my old squadron before I PCS'd (even for missions that I have flown with the new squadron).

THat's some ######ed up shit. Now I want to run into work to see what my average is. We should have a contest, see who can get the highest numbers.

[scawtiedog]

Quick note, I checked out the tracker this morning and they're actually tracking your T/O fuel vs planned, not your landing. So even better, if there's a last minute change (weather, etc.) that causes you to bump up your fuel, you're highlighted.

[Guest Boom]

They're also tracking your fuel burn. Hence why you have to do it on the Tanker Activity Report. Each tanker OGV has to report it to AMC/HQ monthly.

[Scooter14]

Does this tracker have Guard guys on it, too?

[Butters]

We ran the numbers both ways and it was going to burn an extra 7K to carry the extra 40K...that's waste.

Well, that is not as much of a wasted as burning 130K to fly a C-17 across the county empty on a synthetic fuel demonstration flight. Oh, the flew back the next day empty also. So make that 260K.

HAF has no clue what they are doing. It just sounds cool to say we are saving gas. Unless they are going to address the real problems we have that waste fuel (i.e. flying in circles at the end of the fiscal year to close out our flying hours, flying empty airplanes across the country....) they are just spinning their wheels.

Guess the Air Force is supposed to be effective not efficient. Seems they want to make it look like we can save a few thousand ponds of gas here and there while still wasting a thousand times more.

Don't even get me started on airborne spares for DV flights.

[JarheadBoom]

NSTFSs...

-We step to the airplane not too long ago, see it has 150k onboard. Planned was 115k. Crewchief admits misunderstanding "115" vs. "150" over the radio. Can't T/O with 150k due to rain, crosswind, and a short runway. No biggie, we'll just call for a defuel - we've got over 2 hours 'till T/O.......

DENIED!

- How 'bout not flying locals in KC-10s with the seat kit installed? 5000lbs of dead weight to lug around just because they "dont want to" uninstall it...

- Went on a trip not too long ago to drag a couple airplanes and their gear back to their home, from halfway around the world. One broke hard, with a 1-week+ ETIC, so they sent us home. Burned over 500k and accomplished absolutely NOTHING.

- Airborne spare for DVs - If they're not a service Secretary or higher, denied. If the airplane breaks, deal with it - just like we do.

Edited January 9, 2008 by JarheadBoom

[tac airlifter]

"I wonder if I will have the balls to get out before I become one of the morons. If I stay in, I will become one of the marginalized, burned-out field graders that is just there for the paycheck, or one of the morons who supports crap like this. Is it possible to be anything else?"

thats the best question yet. i dont know what the answer is, ask me again in a few years.

[LJDRVR]

Another USAF penny wise pound foolish initiative, and another attempt to erode Aircraft Commander authority, don't let them do it. Put on all the gas you need or think you'll need, based on the numbers, your experience, and gut feeling.

Welcome to the airline world. Just substitute PIC for AC and you're in business. Like it or not, with oil at $100 a barrell, you guys, like your airline bretheren, are going to be seeing more and more about this.

My company routinely operates from Houston to Anchorage with a 737-800. We don't have the fuel to do it legally, so they file to a geographic fix about two-thirds of the way up there, from whence if your numbers are good, you're legal to continue.

The way to approach a culture of moron bean-counters involving themselves in the mission-planning aspects of things while maintaining your sanity AND your command authority is simply this: Take the attitude that it's their operation. If they want to flight plan you with fuel over destination at the legal (but safe) minimums, so be it. You'll have little gas for holding and they'll pick up the tab. Use your experience and authority to add gas when needed, but if they want to take options away from you, they'll suffer the consequences. (One turn in holding, BINGO and off to your alternate.)

Whenever I hear that somebody is out to degrade the AC/PIC's authority, I always think: nobody is taking away a bit of my authority unless I let them. Good solid airmanship will always be exercised in the cockpit, and if they don't like it they can try to get rid of me.

[Guest TheBurt]

LJ,

I just landed in Narita from Subic in an MD-11, but for a huge profit for my company, yes, we do the same thing with B43/44 exemptions, in flight re-release points etc., I believe this thread came up last year, so I'll say it again, the USAF is NOT a business, we do not have to worry about turning a profit. In my airline flying it IS their operation, however, we still try to get the job done, (I want my company to do well) Fuel savings is a very large part of that equation, however, in my military experience the folks and War that I'm supporting can't afford to have me or any other aircraft commander playing games, it is not just their operation, but my mission, and a mission that we take very seriously.

There are a lot of things that we do in military flying that are just not quantifiable, added fuel for wx, theater experience, time of day vs night, contingencies, threat, lack of comms, etc. I think the Air Force looks at civilian industry and wonders, "why aren't we doing that", remember Quality Management, same thing with the fuel conservation. The Air Force loves PR, "look we are saving gas and being friendly to the environment."

My job in the airlines: take-off, level off, descend, ILS land, on time, save fuel make profit, go to hotel. Pretty simple.

My job in the Herk: Plan, brief, load and fuel decisions, take-off with war materials, low/high-level, infiltrate, mitigate threats, airdrop, airland/NVG/short field, operate autonomously, make decisions independent of Command and Control (usually no way to contact), penetrate land, debrief. Total different animal than the airlines. Totally different fuel decisions.

How much will the Air Force save when it scares some young (or even old) AC (trying to get his numbers down) into a light fuel load, crossing the North Atlantic in the winter and forecast winds are way off, an hour out the destination goes wxoff, proceed to alternate, low and behold it goes Wxoff, (Air Force Weather was gutted in the mid 90's for cost measures, pilots sure don't need to speak to a real human in person) and add a little misforecast icing, mx issues, emergency, (this stuff compounds exponentially), and he ends up bending or worse, ditching an airplane, sound impossible?

Young brothers, the heaviest thing you'll ever tote to your airplane, is flight orders with the big A next to your name.

Edited January 10, 2008 by TheBurt