Finance Problems

[The Kayla]

Haha I’m going to add to the “I hate finance” as well!

When my husband went to OTS, he was supposed to be paid E-5 with 8yrs. Well, finance couldn’t get that through their heads. They deal with OTS students ALL the time, this should d have been second nature to them! Well, they decided to over pay us.. majorly. Like $6k in one setting. I put aside $3k, because I had heard horror stories about finance. Dave thought that the $6k was base pay plus all the back pay that they owed us. I wasn’t taking any chances. Well, it’s a good thing that I put that $3k away. After my husband commissioned, they stopped paying us. I used that money (the $3k) to pay the bills and what have you. Well, his pay was still messed up. They were paying him as an E-5, when he should have been getting 01E w/8. There’s a big difference in pay. Maxwell Finance said that we needed to talk to Vance finance. Maxwell couldn’t do anything. Um, hello? He wasn’t even at Vance yet. Well, He calls Vance finance, and they say “you aren’t in our system; you need to talk to Maxwell.” That song and dance went on for about 2 months. Finally, when he got to Vance, and he wasn’t getting anywhere with Finance.. And we’re still getting under paid; he had to get Col. Baldingger (sp?) involved. Col. Baldingger was the 71st OSS’s commander at that time. Pay finally got settled.

On a funny side:

My husband found an old LES statement from when he was at BMT. He set it on my recliner and when I got home he said “Honey, finance messed up again...” I looked at his LES, and go straight to the “Pay” section, and it’s around $350 and some change. I don’t even look at the rank or the date. I’m in complete freak out mode. “Why!? Who you did you piss off at the finance office!!” he starts laughing his sorry ass off… I’m not the least bit amused. He tells me that the LES is from when he was in BMT. He slept on the couch that night. 

[Finance_Guy]

Haha I’m going to add to the “I hate finance” as well!

When my husband went to OTS, he was supposed to be paid E-5 with 8yrs. Well, finance couldn’t get that through their heads. They deal with OTS students ALL the time, this should d have been second nature to them! Well, they decided to over pay us.. majorly. Like $6k in one setting. I put aside $3k, because I had heard horror stories about finance. Dave thought that the $6k was base pay plus all the back pay that they owed us. I wasn’t taking any chances. Well, it’s a good thing that I put that $3k away. After my husband commissioned, they stopped paying us. I used that money (the $3k) to pay the bills and what have you. Well, his pay was still messed up. They were paying him as an E-5, when he should have been getting 01E w/8. There’s a big difference in pay. Maxwell Finance said that we needed to talk to Vance finance. Maxwell couldn’t do anything. Um, hello? He wasn’t even at Vance yet. Well, He calls Vance finance, and they say “you aren’t in our system; you need to talk to Maxwell.” That song and dance went on for about 2 months. Finally, when he got to Vance, and he wasn’t getting anywhere with Finance.. And we’re still getting under paid; he had to get Col. Baldingger (sp?) involved. Col. Baldingger was the 71st OSS’s commander at that time. Pay finally got settled.

On a funny side:

My husband found an old LES statement from when he was at BMT. He set it on my recliner and when I got home he said “Honey, finance messed up again...” I looked at his LES, and go straight to the “Pay” section, and it’s around $350 and some change. I don’t even look at the rank or the date. I’m in complete freak out mode. “Why!? Who you did you piss off at the finance office!!” he starts laughing his sorry ass off… I’m not the least bit amused. He tells me that the LES is from when he was in BMT. He slept on the couch that night. 

This is so funny. Finance has no input for Rank or years of service. It's all input by the Personnel office and in the case of officer accession, the AF Personnel center. Once input into MILPDS, the transactions update the finance system. Goes to show much of the finance bashers don't really know how their own entitlements are handled. Yes the end result is in the pay system, but your local finance cannot make those changes.....Change to a new topic, "I hate MPF".

[Guest Joshmoe]

This is so funny. Finance has no input for Rank or years of service. It's all input by the Personnel office and in the case of officer accession, the AF Personnel center. Once input into MILPDS, the transactions update the finance system. Goes to show much of the finance bashers don't really know how their own entitlements are handled. Yes the end result is in the pay system, but your local finance cannot make those changes.....Change to a new topic, "I hate MPF".

Then why didn't the finance office in question refer the member down the hall to the MPF customer service desk? That'd save a lot of work on the part of most parties involved.

[Finance_Guy]

Then why didn't the finance office in question refer the member down the hall to the MPF customer service desk? That'd save a lot of work on the part of most parties involved.

Your right. But I bet the MPF clerk told them to go see finance. Not enough info provide in the story to know what exactly happened, which is pretty typical.

[The Kayla]

This is so funny. Finance has no input for Rank or years of service. It's all input by the Personnel office and in the case of officer accession, the AF Personnel center. Once input into MILPDS, the transactions update the finance system. Goes to show much of the finance bashers don't really know how their own entitlements are handled. Yes the end result is in the pay system, but your local finance cannot make those changes.....Change to a new topic, "I hate MPF".

We were a ping pong ball being bounced back and forth between Finance and MPF. MPF was telling us to go to Finance, and Finance was bouncing us to another finance office. What gives?

Trust me, Finance Guy, we tried every single avenue out there. It wasn't just rank/time in service screw ups, there were other issues as well.

And, it doesn't help that when you go to the finance office, you can be as sweet as pie, and they still act and treat you like shit on the bottom of their shoes.

[Herk Driver]

We were a ping pong ball being bounced back and forth between Finance and MPF. MPF was telling us to go to Finance, and Finance was bouncing us to another finance office. What gives?

Trust me, Finance Guy, we tried every single avenue out there. It wasn't just rank/time in service screw ups, there were other issues as well.

And, it doesn't help that when you go to the finance office, you can be as sweet as pie, and they still act and treat you like shit on the bottom of their shoes.

Exactly. Nice try though finance guy. If the guy at finance had his shit in one sock, like you obviously do, he would have explained what you did above and sent the member to MPF. When the guy returned with the BS from MPF, the finance guy worth his salt would have called the MPF, spoke to the NCOIC and gotten the shit squared away. Really, no one really cares how MPF system x feeds finance sytem y; they want to get paid. It is not the member's responsibility to make sure that finance and MPF can do their jobs. And before you say it it isn't finance's job to make sure the MPF does their job, but ultimately, you know how the system works and could make one phone call and get it squared away. Instead most finance guy just send the person away with the it isn't my problem and wait for them to return 69 times before trying to actually fix it.

[Toasty]

Exactly. Nice try though finance guy. If the guy at finance had his shit in one sock, like you obviously do, he would have explained what you did above and sent the member to MPF. When the guy returned with the BS from MPF, the finance guy worth his salt would have called the MPF, spoke to the NCOIC and gotten the shit squared away. Really, no one really cares how MPF system x feeds finance sytem y; they want to get paid. It is not the member's responsibility to make sure that finance and MPF can do their jobs. And before you say it it isn't finance's job to make sure the MPF does their job, but ultimately, you know how the system works and could make one phone call and get it squared away. Instead most finance guy just send the person away with the it isn't my problem and wait for them to return 69 times before trying to actually fix it.

Shack.

I'll tell you how the finance system works when you're able to tell me how SCNS works.

[Finance_Guy]

Exactly. Nice try though finance guy. If the guy at finance had his shit in one sock, like you obviously do, he would have explained what you did above and sent the member to MPF. When the guy returned with the BS from MPF, the finance guy worth his salt would have called the MPF, spoke to the NCOIC and gotten the shit squared away. Really, no one really cares how MPF system x feeds finance sytem y; they want to get paid. It is not the member's responsibility to make sure that finance and MPF can do their jobs. And before you say it it isn't finance's job to make sure the MPF does their job, but ultimately, you know how the system works and could make one phone call and get it squared away. Instead most finance guy just send the person away with the it isn't my problem and wait for them to return 69 times before trying to actually fix it.

I can honestly say there are many young troops who just don't have the experience to see the "big picture". It takes many years of experience. But to retort on your comment, every military member should know that personnel handles your promotion and years of service input. Those are purely personnel items that merely result in payments. It's also due to a separation of duties. So if you don't get a promotion order/notice, do you go see finance...hell no, you go to the promotions office in MPF. PCS moves result in pay, so if you don't get your PCS orders, everyone should know to go to outbound assignments. HR stuff is something everyone should know something about. Not saying you need to know every single detail, but at least have a clue.

Just so everyone knows, if anything like this happens to you, there's a system called the Case Mgmt System (CMS) that both MPF and Finance are to use. Regardless of who is at fault, problems like Kayla brought up are to be entered into this system no matter if MPF or Finance is supposed to fix it. So, if it happens to you, have one of those offices enter the case in CMS so it can be routed to the appropriate office and it will have visability within MPF, Finance and with you. You can access your own CMS cases in vMPF.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Finance_Guy

[Techsan]

Why I hate finance...

Our crew submitted our combat pay/tax exlusion form early in April (for the month of April) and haven't seen our goodies yet, so its been over a month now! Seriously, how hard is it to input those things? I can't imagine its very difficult.

[Herk Driver]

I can honestly say there are many young troops who just don't have the experience to see the "big picture". It takes many years of experience. But to retort on your comment, every military member should know that personnel handles your promotion and years of service input. Those are purely personnel items that merely result in payments. It's also due to a separation of duties. So if you don't get a promotion order/notice, do you go see finance...hell no, you go to the promotions office in MPF. PCS moves result in pay, so if you don't get your PCS orders, everyone should know to go to outbound assignments. HR stuff is something everyone should know something about. Not saying you need to know every single detail, but at least have a clue.

Just so everyone knows, if anything like this happens to you, there's a system called the Case Mgmt System (CMS) that both MPF and Finance are to use. Regardless of who is at fault, problems like Kayla brought up are to be entered into this system no matter if MPF or Finance is supposed to fix it. So, if it happens to you, have one of those offices enter the case in CMS so it can be routed to the appropriate office and it will have visability within MPF, Finance and with you. You can access your own CMS cases in vMPF.

Exactly. I think that Kayla mentioned that she was being bounced back and forth between MPF and finance. If the guys she was dealing with didn't know and couldn't fix it, how was she supposed to know? She went to an office and got the "I'm too busy between short hours and closed for training hours" excuse. That's it.

[Danny Noonin]

But to retort on your comment, every military member should know that personnel handles your promotion and years of service input. HR stuff is something everyone should know something about. Not saying you need to know every single detail, but at least have a clue.

Negative. It's not my job to know your job. If someone asks a question, it's your job to point them in the right direction if you know where that is, not to tell them they should know the answer.

You don't know anything about my job, so don't tell me I should know yours or anyone else's. I usually have to hunt and peck around to find the right person. Just answer the question without the condesending attitude.

By the way, I didn't know who input years of service AND I USED TO WORK IN FINANCE.

[brickhistory]

By the way, it doesn't end even at retirement:

1) Retired out of the Pentagon MPF several months ago, on my last day of active duty which was a Friday. You have to be retired, according to that MPF, before you can get your old fogey (retiree) ID card. Ok, I'll go on Monday to Bolling since it's closer to work.

Monday - do the MPF thing get a pink traditional reservist ID card. "Ummm, 'scuse me?!"

"Well that's what the system is showing."

UFB! Goober at Pentagon clicked the wrong box and presto! I'm a reservist waiting until age 60 to start drawing a check. Unsat. Ping-ponged between MPF(s) and Finance (not their fault, but I wasn't gonna get paid so I had an interest with them) to get it resolved. No one would own up to it and get the problem solved.

Wound up having to get very directive and very loud to an NCOIC who threatened to get his commander. "Please do, I'd love to explain some buffoonery and see some changes made today." I got entered into the correct system oddly enough immediately thereafter.

2) Fat(ter) and dumber in new job after getting my final pay (sold leave, etc), waited a couple of weeks for any stray inputs/deductions, then rolled over my TSP into something else.

Come the first of the next (two after retiring) month, there's another full deposit into my TSP.

Called TSP, that's mil pay, sir, we just invest the money once it's deposited.

Call mil pay "Oh, you're retired, you need to call retired pay."

Call retired pay, "That deposit was made by active duty mil pay."

Went to Bolling mil pay, got a supervisor and watched him work the phones to figure out the snafu. (Was a TSP deposit from my final pay, hence was off cycle.). Took nearly four hours to find the answer.

Don't even start on VA.................................

Oh, yeah, one more thing, "You kids get outta my yard!"

[Finance_Guy]

Negative. It's not my job to know your job. If someone asks a question, it's your job to point them in the right direction if you know where that is, not to tell them they should know the answer.

You don't know anything about my job, so don't tell me I should know yours or anyone else's. I usually have to hunt and peck around to find the right person. Just answer the question without the condesending attitude.

By the way, I didn't know who input years of service AND I USED TO WORK IN FINANCE.

Didn't say you needed to know finance's JOB, you should know somethings about YOUR PAY and Entitlements. I don't mean that non-finance people have to know how to process and administer personnel or pay, but at least have some clue. I can say many aircrew know the travel rules better than most finance people. Why, because they do it everyday. Those who travel maybe once a year, are probably in the dark. It must be important enough since there is finance info in the PFE for NCO testing.

I don't ever recall Herk Driver asking me question, I was just making comments, and I don't have any more attitude than most others in this forum.

If you used to work finance (I mean Military Pay) and didn't know who updates promotion and years of service, I'm sorry. Years of service is pretty much automatic once gained into the system, but for those with a break in service, personnel has to compute it and input. There is no format ID and action codes finance has access to for those items. Do your remember what a Format ID is? If not, then you didn't work the military pay section of the Financial Services Office.e.

[Danny Noonin]

Dude you are missing the point.

I don't have brain cells to remember anything about anyone else's job that I don't NEED to know. The reason I know I don't need to know it is because YOU know it and I should be able to ask you or anyone in your office to point me in the right direction if I can't figure it out on my own. I know plenty about my pay and entitlements, but how on earth can you argue that it's actually important for me to know who inputs what into a computer? Should I honestly waste brain space learning that personnel handles years of service input on the off friggin chance I need to have that done so I can save you having to answer the question? Seriously, dude, should I? Why can't I just ASK SOMEONE if that time ever comes? And if I ask, why can't I get a straight answer without getting the runaround or a lecture on how I should already know it?

Nope, didn't work in mil pay, but what's the difference? You act as though this should all be common knowledge. I'm telling you that as a finance guy I didn't know that, so why on earth would I know that as a pilot?

[Finance_Guy]

Dude you are missing the point.

I don't have brain cells to remember anything about anyone else's job that I don't NEED to know. The reason I know I don't need to know it is because YOU know it and I should be able to ask you or anyone in your office to point me in the right direction if I can't figure it out on my own. I know plenty about my pay and entitlements, but how on earth can you argue that it's actually important for me to know who inputs what into a computer? Should I honestly waste brain space learning that personnel handles years of service input on the off friggin chance I need to have that done so I can save you having to answer the question? Seriously, dude, should I? Why can't I just ASK SOMEONE if that time ever comes? And if I ask, why can't I get a straight answer without getting the runaround or a lecture on how I should already know it?

Nope, didn't work in mil pay, but what's the difference? You act as though this should all be common knowledge. I'm telling you that as a finance guy I didn't know that, so why on earth would I know that as a pilot?

You are missing the point. So now Finance needs to know Personnel's job. Forget it. I'm done with this conversation. No wonder people have so many problems. My point was don't rag on finance when they have NOTHING to do with it.

[Finance_Guy]

Why I hate finance...

Our crew submitted our combat pay/tax exlusion form early in April (for the month of April) and haven't seen our goodies yet, so its been over a month now! Seriously, how hard is it to input those things? I can't imagine its very difficult.

Its not hard, a 2303 transaction with a start and end date, a code of 1 and a 1 or 2, then the country code you were in. Hit enter and your are done.

However, That can only be done with a correctly filled out form. I'm assuming you are using an 1881. I'm sure your travel voucher had the same location. If not, then I'm guessing you did the 1881 for transiting airspace. Different rules and maybe there wasn't enough on the form to show you were assigned duty to the airspace.

FWIW, an 1881 is for actual Hostile Fire.and should only be used when fired upon. The travel voucher is the source for IDP.

[Danny Noonin]

every military member should know that personnel handles your promotion and years of service input

Listen dude. I never said you should know how to do personnel's job. I made a comment about your ridiculous comment (above) that you expect everyone to be familiar with how things work over there. That comment was absurd and if you think about it for a while, you'll probably figure that one out. I simply said that if people show up asking you to fix something that is really a personnel issue, then send them over there politely and without a lecture. Better yet, pick up the friggin phone and call your buddy over in the MPF and say "hey I'm sending someone over who's having a problem with X, can you help them out?" Instead, folks just get the "not my job" reaction with some attitude and are left out in the cold trying to figure shit out on their own. That's why there is an entire thread on why folks hate finance.

I know exactly how thankless a job it can be where you're at. And I know exactly how people bitch at finance for things that you have no control over. Don't even start with me on any of that shit. But you gotta understand that no one cares about the nuts and bolts of anything that happens in the mission support group until something goes wrong with their personal stuff. When it does go wrong, they will have questions. The deserve to be pointed in the right direction and have their questions answered without being told they should know that shit already.

And when you start blaming all the problems on your customers, maybe you need to reassess your attitude. Who supports who?

[brabus]

I don't mean that non-finance people have to know how to process and administer personnel or pay, but at least have some clue

You don't have to know how to fly a perfect 6K Offensive for 2, but come on financeguy, at least have a clue on it! That statement doesn't make sense, does it? So NO, I should not have to know a single thing about finance/MPF/any other job on base b/c it's NOT my job, just like flying a 6K offensive is NOT your job.

I think I just simplified what T-bone was getting at...correct me if I'm wrong T-Bone.

[Danny Noonin]

true

[Finance_Guy]

You don't have to know how to fly a perfect 6K Offensive for 2, but come on financeguy, at least have a clue on it! That statement doesn't make sense, does it? So NO, I should not have to know a single thing about finance/MPF/any other job on base b/c it's NOT my job, just like flying a 6K offensive is NOT your job.

I think I just simplified what T-bone was getting at...correct me if I'm wrong T-Bone.

Really you provide an apples to oranges comparison. Those with jobs that fly have no common ties with the rest of ALL the AF, but those in Finance and Personnel do--I guess that's why we are the "shoe clerks". What we do has some effect on Everyone in the AF. What you do is limited to only those in the OPS world. I guess maybe that's what I should've said. I don't know what a "perfect 6k Offensive for 2" is, but if I needed to know, was interested, or it remotely affected me, I would do some research to find out, but that's just me. Must not be a common term since Google didn't pull up crap. You Google Military Pay you get many hits to at least start from. It's scary to think you would totally rely on another career field to obtain "every single thing" about your pay or personnel programs.

I guess you don't have to do a aircraft inspection since you don't have to know a single thing about what the maintenance folks are required to do.

[The Kayla]

You are missing the point. So now Finance needs to know Personnel's job. Forget it. I'm done with this conversation. No wonder people have so many problems. My point was don't rag on finance when they have NOTHING to do with it.

Maybe finance gets a bad name because they don't show any consideration to people.

They don't offer any type of help, and they treat people like crap. I'm not asking for them to know everything, but what I want is some compassion when it comes to getting help. Even if it's a "I'm sorry, you need to go to XXX.." just treat me like I'm a human, and not the crap that is on your shoe, that is bothering you.

Anyone on here who had their pay jacked up understands what I'm talking about. We are still recovering from the whole pay issue, and that was going on in the end of 2006 to May 2007. That's a LONG time to have your pay jacked up.

[brabus]

What we do has some effect on Everyone in the AF.

True, what you do does have an affect on everyone.

What you do is limited to only those in the OPS world.

Wrong. What we do is why the AF even exists in the first place. It's not called the Finance Force or the Services Force or the Engineering Force for a reason. All those mentioned are important parts of the AF and absolutely necessary, but the "point" of the AF is what's happening in the skies (and I'll admit....space). Support is crucial no doubt, but to say flying only affects those of us who do it is a very misguided statement.

or it remotely affected me, I would do some research to find out,

Under that argument I should have "a clue" about how a firefighter does his job (never know when I might have to rely on a firefighter and he just doesn't know how to do a portion of his job) or how Dish Network's equipment works (b/c I'd be pissed if I missed Lost!). The point is, just b/c someone's job performance or lack there of affects me does not mean I should or even have the time to learn even a small part of their job's specifics. Now, unfortunately Vance Finance's extreme ineptitude has forced me to learn some stuff. However, I should never have had to based on the simple fact that they should know how to do their job or have the common courtesy to find someone who does know.

This is not directed at you Finance Guy (as you seem to have your shit in a sock), but as a generality, why the hell is it acceptable for all these support fields (finance, MPF, services, etc) to not know what the hell they're doing and fuck it away on a daily basis? I know for a fact if I had performed in UPT like I've seen people in these offices, I wouldn't have made it to T-6 solo. These people wonder why pilots/navs hate them and think they suck ass...well it's b/c first they do suck ass, and 2nd we all know what it means to put 100% effort into something and always strive for perfection, the shoes don't seem to understand that concept one bit.

[Ram]

Those with jobs that fly have no common ties with the rest of ALL the AF...

I figured that I should quote this. Just in case anyone missed the fact that he actually SAID IT.

And I'd consider Finance_Guy one of the "better" (to use a HIGHLY RELATIVE TERM) "shoeclerks."

[polcat]

As I myself am a flyer, I find that all the support agencies basically support one another but never ops (you see this all the time in the desert). Where's customer service these days? Finance at Laughlin screwed up my accrual voucher while I was at Little Rock. They overpaed me by $6000! I talked to them and said I don't want any more money until I'm finished with the rock and that I'll submit a regular voucher once I'm finished. That BS still haunted me for another year! What would others do/say if I did my job as crappy as others in the Air Force. "Hey, I'm just going to fly half-assed today and I don't care what you think, oh, and don't bother me from 1100-1300, Ill be on my lunch break and sorry if you don't get to our office by 1500."

[Danny Noonin]

Really you provide an apples to oranges comparison. Those with jobs that fly have no common ties with the rest of ALL the AF, but those in Finance and Personnel do--I guess that's why we are the "shoe clerks". What we do has some effect on Everyone in the AF. What you do is limited to only those in the OPS world. I guess maybe that's what I should've said. I don't know what a "perfect 6k Offensive for 2" is, but if I needed to know, was interested, or it remotely affected me, I would do some research to find out, but that's just me. Must not be a common term since Google didn't pull up crap. You Google Military Pay you get many hits to at least start from. It's scary to think you would totally rely on another career field to obtain "every single thing" about your pay or personnel programs.

I guess you don't have to do a aircraft inspection since you don't have to know a single thing about what the maintenance folks are required to do.

Dude stop it. You are getting defensive and not listening to the points being made, which are valid.

Do you know everything about how CE works and who does what over there? They certainly affect you if you work inside a building. What flight would you call in CE if your roof leaked? What if you wanted to do a self help project? You've got that desk's phone number memorized, right? How bout the Comm Sq? You clearly understand how everything works over there, right? After all, you've got a computer and a phone. Of course you don't know how everything works over there. You don't need to. You can pick up the phone and call over there and get pointed in the right direction if you need help.

And brother, you seem to have forgotten what your job is. You essentially said "Ops doesn't affect the rest of the AF"...you couldn't be more wrong. FINANCE ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE OF OPS. The whole friggin' Air Force only exists because of ops. Your job is to support ops and all the other people who support ops. It is your job to understand your customers and their needs. It is not your customers job to memorize how the nuts and bolts of your system work.

I'll repeat 2 points for you since you apparently missed them:

1) How on earth can you argue with a straight face that it's IMPORTANT for me to remember who inputs something like time of service into a computer? Seriously dude. How is that important for me? It's not info that I would use on a daily, monthly, or even annual basis. In fact, I've been around for well over a decade now and never once needed that fact. So tell me, how is that IMPORTANT for me to remember?

2) When you keep blaming your customers for all the problems, you need an attitude adjustment. Don't forget who supports who.

Edited May 16, 2008 by T-Bone