Tuition Assistance - Am I getting screwed?

[jango220]

Are you going through Embry Rid(iculous)dle?

No, Penn State. The way the courses are set up makes it impossible to do something like what you propose (see here). I'll probably give Laughlin's education office a call and see what they recommend. And then call Maxwell's and see if they say the same thing. Two different ed offices saying the same thing, it could happen, right? -sarcasm off- Worst comes to worst, I'll just wait till I report and then see if I can work out getting credited.

[stract]

you apply for TA electronically (AF Portal). When you apply, you choose the Ed office to send the TA request to. Since you'll be at Maxwell, recommend you call them up or see them face-to-face and you will most likely send your TA request to either them or your gaining base.

[jango220]

Thanks stract and B*D*A, I'll give them a call.

[Wolf424]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else get screwed when the new GI Bill came out? I started my $100 bucks a month for 12 months thing last year in February. But, the new GI bill came out last summer, where you don't have to contribute anymore. I tried to stop my payment into it, and I was told by the education office that you couldn't once you start. I hate the education office, every one I've been has been worthless.

[Karl Hungus]

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else get screwed when the new GI Bill came out? I started my $100 bucks a month for 12 months thing last year in February. But, the new GI bill came out last summer, where you don't have to contribute anymore. I tried to stop my payment into it, and I was told by the education office that you couldn't once you start. I hate the education office, every one I've been has been worthless.

I was wondering the same thing.... I remember some discussion on being able to get a refund of that money, but haven't heard anything since.

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

I was wondering the same thing.... I remember some discussion on being able to get a refund of that money, but haven't heard anything since.

https://www.gibill2.va.gov/vba/vba.cfg/php....ser/std_alp.php

This is a great link to FAQ's on the GI Bill, pre- and post-9/11 stuff included.

I just got off the phone with my education office, and they said that if you did the $100/mo contribution for a year (total of $1200 to fund your GI Bill benefits) that you WILL get reimbursed if you swap over to the post-9/11 GI Bill. However, you must first deplete the benefits of the post-9/11 bill before you can file for the $1200 reimbursement.

Translation: Use up the entire GI Bill, and then apply for your refund. NO refunds will be issued to people like me who have not yet tapped into their GI Bill benefits. Additionally, if you did the $600 buy-in to up your benefits in the pre-9/11 GI Bill, you are completely screwed. There are no provisions (or even plans) to refund that $600 back to you.

On the up side, I can't believe how much more money the post-9/11 GI Bill is going to give us. It really is a lot better deal for the majority of people out there. And eventually I will see my $1200 returned to me...

[HercDude]

Couldn't find a better thread for this question - apologies if it has been covered before.....

Does anyone have any experience with breaking their ADSC incurred through using TA? My 10 year commitment is up this summer and I just got handed a list of 5 shitty assignments, one of which I will be non-vol'd to. I'm about 90% sure I'll punch rather than taking one, but I only finished my last Master's class a couple months ago. Can they force me to PCS because of the ADSC, or could I repay the money and punch when my UPT ADSC is up?

I tried looking it up in 36-2107, but my shoe-fu skills were soundly defeated by that particular reg.

[Dupe]

They can never force you to PCS and incur a longer ADSC than you currently have. If you're offered a PCS that will extend your ADSC, you can elect not to take it and you will get a reclama. You may also be offered an assignment that you have retainability for (hint: AFPC knows your retainability and may be tagging you appropriately). Read 36-2110 Para 2.9.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dupe

[Stitch]

Couldn't find a better thread for this question - apologies if it has been covered before.....

Does anyone have any experience with breaking their ADSC incurred through using TA? My 10 year commitment is up this summer and I just got handed a list of 5 shitty assignments, one of which I will be non-vol'd to. I'm about 90% sure I'll punch rather than taking one, but I only finished my last Master's class a couple months ago. Can they force me to PCS because of the ADSC, or could I repay the money and punch when my UPT ADSC is up?

I tried looking it up in 36-2107, but my shoe-fu skills were soundly defeated by that particular reg.

See AFI 36-2306 Voluntary Education Program, para 5.2.2.3 it talks of ADSC waivers; -2306 is the AFI that covers TA and should give you a good starting point. Also, call your functional at AFPC as your mileage may vary. In this budget era we now live in, they just may go for the pay the TA back and separate option.

[Tone deaf]

Your ADSC for TA and UPT should run concurrently, not sequentially so your 2-year TA commitment should end 2 years after you finished your last masters class, which should now be less than two years from the present. A PCS two year ADSC should begin when you PCS so it sounds like you do not have retainability and should be able to decline any PCS orders short of a remote tour. Have you looked at your vMPF data verification for your actual ADSC in the system?

[HercDude]

Your ADSC for TA and UPT should run concurrently, not sequentially so your 2-year TA commitment should end 2 years after you finished your last masters class, which should now be less than two years from the present. A PCS two year ADSC should begin when you PCS so it sounds like you do not have retainability and should be able to decline any PCS orders short of a remote tour. Have you looked at your vMPF data verification for your actual ADSC in the system?

Yeah, this is essentially what is going to happen. If I choose to 7-day opt, my date of separation will be set to the last day of my ADSC from the last class I took. Gives me about an extra year to figure out what to do, should I choose to get out.

I hear the airlines are about to hire a bunch of people.......

[Herk Driver]

You can be forced to PCS if AFPC waives the 2 year ADSC. Not likely, but I have seen it happen once.

[Prozac]

You can be forced to PCS if AFPC waives the 2 year ADSC. Not likely, but I have seen it happen once.

This. Also be prepared for the possibility of a 365 should you 7 day opt. If you want to do the airline thing, you should have your ATP done and be in the process of putting together your resume and doing interview prep, networking, etc. like, now. If one of those shitty assignments involves flying, I'd consider sucking it up and punching when you are nice and current and have a few hundred more hours to show for it.

[HeloDude]

Couldn't find a better thread for this question - apologies if it has been covered before.....

Does anyone have any experience with breaking their ADSC incurred through using TA? My 10 year commitment is up this summer and I just got handed a list of 5 shitty assignments, one of which I will be non-vol'd to. I'm about 90% sure I'll punch rather than taking one, but I only finished my last Master's class a couple months ago. Can they force me to PCS because of the ADSC, or could I repay the money and punch when my UPT ADSC is up?

I tried looking it up in 36-2107, but my shoe-fu skills were soundly defeated by that particular reg.

Care to share the list of the '5 shitty assignments'...either on here of send me a PM? Not questioning your your personal desires, just curious as to why all 5 are shitty? (I may even agree).

[HercDude]

I was going to PM, but I'll throw them out there and accept whatever spears fly my way. Bear in mind that I will meet my IPZ O-5 board in less than 2 years, and I have already spent 3 & 1/2 years in AETC teaching TP Stalls, power-pitch-roll, & the WANTS check.

The five available were RQ-4 to Beale, MQ-9 to Creech, MQ-1 to Creech, T-6 to Vance and T-6 to Laughlin.

Had this been my 1st or 2nd assignment I would have gladly taken either of the last two . I loved my time in the Texan, but to put my family through that - especially when I now have school age children - is not OK with me. And I appreciate what the RPA guys do and realize that these two locations are the best available to them, but remote piloting is something I have zero interest in doing. If there was a cockpit at either one of those locations I would likewise have taken them without batting an eye. But in my mind Vegas with the bros = f**king awesome; Vegas in the minivan = meh

I plan on rolling the dice and declining the assignment. If I end up in Kabul for a year then so be it. If they want to waive my ADSC and send me to Vegas for one year then I'll do it with a smile. But I'd rather do that and find out what the civilian world and AFRC have to offer than spend the next 6-9 years of my life doing a job I don't enjoy.

As a sidenote, I keep chuckling over the fact that I've been waiting to be offered the bonus for several years because I knew I would take it. Then, the year I am eligible they fail to offer it in any reasonable time frame, while offering me an assignment I'm not willing to take. Had they offered the bonus in March I most likely would have taken it and wouldn't have a say in any of this.

Edited May 30, 2013 by HercDude

[Day Man]

there's a glitch in the matrix...

[guineapigfury]

I was going to PM, but I'll throw them out there and accept whatever spears fly my way. Bear in mind that I will meet my IPZ O-5 board in less than 2 years, and I have already spent 3 & 1/2 years in AETC teaching TP Stalls, power-pitch-roll, & the WANTS check. The five available were RQ-4 to Beale, MQ-9 to Creech, MQ-1 to Creech, T-6 to Vance and T-6 to Laughlin. Had this been my 1st or 2nd assignment I would have gladly taken either of the last two . I loved my time in the Texan, but to put my family through that - especially when I now have school age children - is not OK with me. And I appreciate what the RPA guys do and realize that these two locations are the best available to them, but remote piloting is something I have zero interest in doing. If there was a cockpit at either one of those locations I would likewise have taken them without batting an eye. But in my mind Vegas with the bros = f**king awesome; Vegas in the minivan = meh I plan on rolling the dice and declining the assignment. If I end up in Kabul for a year then so be it. If they want to waive my ADSC and send me to Vegas for one year then I'll do it with a smile. But I'd rather do that and find out what the civilian world and AFRC have to offer than spend the next 6-9 years of my life doing a job I don't enjoy. As a sidenote, I keep chuckling over the fact that I've been waiting to be offered the bonus for several years because I knew I would take it. Then, the year I am eligible they fail to offer it in any reasonable time frame, while offering me an assignment I'm not willing to take. Had they offered the bonus in March I most likely would have taken it and wouldn't have a say in any of this.

IMHO, inaccurate. I can't speak for Global Chickens, but Ellsworth is probably the best MQ-9 base. Tax-free state (better than CA, same as NV), significantly lower ops tempo, no hour+ drive to work, and relatively generous BAH. Everyone here who came from Creech prefers it here. That said it's still flying RPAs, which sucks. I know it's moot for you, but I wanted to throw it out there for other guys in a similar situation.

Edited May 30, 2013 by guineapigfury

[HeloDude]

Possible assignments...

Thanks for sharing man, I appreciate it.

Only you can decide what's best for you and your family, and if you're comfortable with your decision, then good on you man...and more importantly, I thank you very much for your service.

As for the actual assignments, in terms of promotion ability, I totally get it (doesn't sounds like you'll have an in resident IDE or equivalent credit). The O-5 promotion rate for non IDE guys is tough (around 47% with the ACSC correspondence and masters checked), and I'm sure if you were to break it down to the Squadron ADO type guys it gets even worse. So if you're not going be one of the top guys at Wing Safety or something, then then the chances aren't that great unfortunately. Would you have taken a staff job to a MAJCOM, or better if they had offered it, as those assignments offer much better promotional chances?

The white jet/T-6 gig doesn't seem like it would be all that enjoyable (regardless of whether your a fixed wing guy or a rotor wing guy). You fly a lot, but you don't really to get 'fly'. Plus it seems like those guys put in some crazy long days and always have to be in that 'UPT mindset'. I'd much rather be an MWS school house IP as you get to do a lot of different types of flying, and IP upgrades are actually fun sorties when you get to play the student, plus you get to actually fly on those.

As for the RPA assignments, meh, it has its pros and cons--but if you wouldn't at all enjoy it, then it's probably a good call.

Let us know how it plays out!

ETA: Changed PME to masters

Edited May 31, 2013 by HeloDude

[Nineline]

HercDude, did HeloDude accurately sum up your opinions on why you don't want a white jet gig at this time? I only ask because I've never done the AETC thing, also have school age children, and have been seriously considering white jets as a different avenue to stay in the cockpit.

-9-

[HercDude]

We're straying pretty far from TA, so if the mods want to move this to a more appropriate thread please do. My TA question was answered pretty quick - they can't force me to take an ADSC pact my retainability date, but will force me to set a DOS between now and the end of my current ADSC. They legally can PCS me without inuring an ADSC (sounds unlikely), or find a cushy cubicle at the Died for me that ends before my DOS (probably not all that unlikely).

But to answer your question: I'm not interested in the T-6 gig because I have already done a complete tour as a T-6 IP. I loved it. I loved the flying, I loved the instructing (most of the time), the squadron was awesome, and my commanders were awesome. Even the leadership at the Group & Wing level were pretty cool - at least in touch with the trials of the line pilots, something I can not say I have ever really experienced in AMC. If you can get past the location - and some guys can't - being a T-6 IP is a lot of fun. The days are long but I barely noticed, and never really felt like I was working. Hands down my favorite job in the AF has been a T-6 Flt/CC. But living in a remote location with little to do, few job prospects for your spouse, terrible public schools, long days, and crap weather is something you'll have to come to terms with. In my case it was very stressful on my family, and that's something I don't want to revisit. The other piece is that while Columbus was a great place to start a family and raise toddlers, I do not consider it a very good place to raise school age children. I would anticipate the same situation at Vance or Laughlin.

So bottom line is I saw a dead end career going back to the T-6, with the added stresses of long days in a bad location. As I said, if that was going to be my 2nd or 3rd assignment and I had not been before I would have eagerly taken it. It's not a fit for me or my family right now. I like my options on the other side of the fence much better.

And HeloDude - I would have accepted a non vol to a Staff tour, but I have made it known to my CC and on my ADP that I am not a volunteer for any staff assignment. I am aware what that did to my promotion chances, but I have all the boxes checked. If I do get passed over I at least want to be happy at work and home when it happens - something that seemed unlikely given these 5 choices. And RTU Instructor is no longer an option for legacy C-130 guys. Personally though, flying 5.0s 4 days a week doing the exact same profile every damn day never appealed to me. One of the reasons I enjoyed the Texan so much was that you were constantly progressing a class through the syllabus, so from week-to-week the profiles and level of instruction changed.