No More Chutes on KC-135s

[M2]

From AFA...

No Chutes, Honest: The Air Force has decided it can save money and time by removing the parachutes from KC-135 aircraft, known for their safe flying record, according to officials with Air Force Reserve Command's 931st Air Refueling Group at McConnell AFB, Kan. The decision will save the cost of buying and maintaining parachutes and training dollars and time. In 20 years of flying the KC-135, said Col. Clay Childs, 931st ARG deputy commander, said he has never considered using a parachute. He also flies civilian airliners, which don't have parachutes. According to boom operator MSgt. John Austin, "If the plane is under control, you are going to stay with it; if it's out of control, you're not going to be able to get to the parachute anyway." (931st ARG report by TSgt. Jason Schaap)

I love the linked article, especially the comment "Crew members forced to evacuate in-flight aircraft with parachutes, for example, have much gentler impacts with the ground than those without chutes." Real funny.

I know the Stratotanker has an excellent safety record, and the odds of actually getting out with a chute on are slim; but I would be curious as to what "real" crews thought and not the brainwashed gerbils that AF/PA gets to quote in their reports?

Cheers! M2

[Steve Davies]

From AFA...

I love the linked article, especially the comment "Crew members forced to evacuate in-flight aircraft with parachutes, for example, have much gentler impacts with the ground than those without chutes." Real funny.

I know the Stratotanker has an excellent safety record, and the odds of actually getting out with a chute on are slim; but I would be curious as to what "real" crews thought and not the brainwashed gerbils that AF/PA gets to quote in their reports?

Cheers! M2

Interesting. I have been told on my KC-135 flights that bailing out is never going to be an option. I wonder if that's just because they didn't have a spare 'chute for me!?

[Guest Boom]

Our odds of surviving with it were slim. Some jets over here in the AOR have no chutes and some only have one. The one with no chutes have a harness the Boom will use to check hatches in flights in lieu of the chute. What I think is stupid is they did away with the chutes however everytime I fly I still have to check out PRC radios and no guns.

[pawnman]

From AFA...

I love the linked article, especially the comment "Crew members forced to evacuate in-flight aircraft with parachutes, for example, have much gentler impacts with the ground than those without chutes." Real funny.

I know the Stratotanker has an excellent safety record, and the odds of actually getting out with a chute on are slim; but I would be curious as to what "real" crews thought and not the brainwashed gerbils that AF/PA gets to quote in their reports?

Cheers! M2

We used to have two spare chutes on the B-1, now we only have one. Doesn't really bother me that we only have one spare chute (because how often is the seat going to fail?).

Not exactly the same situation, I know, but still.

On the other hand, it does bother me that the USAF thinks cost cutting should be done on safety items.

[Toasty]

Because clearly, getting rid of parachutes take priority over getting rid of Smart boards and plasma screens.

[Ram]

Because clearly, getting rid of parachutes take priority over getting rid of Smart boards and plasma screens.

SHACK.

[Cooter]

Because clearly, getting rid of parachutes take priority over getting rid of Smart boards and plasma screens.

You know what the funny thing is (Actually it's not funny it's retarded) we have smart boards in our mission planning rooms, they hardly ever get used if at all. Plasma screens everywhere, what are they used for? Watching F@#$ing TV! It would be nice to go back to a simpler time without all the techno crap. The AF right now, IMO, has lost a sense of itself. Between "Cyberwarriors" (pretty sure that needs to be a beer word) and our new slogans that come out every 6 months, where the hell are "we" going? I guess that's part of the reason I like being deployed so much so I can stay away from all that crap...oh wait...F@#$!

Cooter

[ClearedHot]

In the 45 year history of the KC-135, has anyone ever bailed out of one?

[Guest Boom]

In the 45 year history of the KC-135, has anyone ever bailed out of one?

Yes, a whole crew bailed out at K.I. Sawyer in the 60's except the IP (cause he ran it out of fuel and thought he could land it, which he did eventually).

[Guest haftafly]

It's a good bird but I still want one, or two, or three. Just two cents from someone who flies it.

[amcflyboy]

The AF right now, IMO, has lost a sense of itself. Between "Cyberwarriors" (pretty sure that needs to be a beer word) and our new slogans that come out every 6 months, where the hell are "we" going? I guess that's part of the reason I like being deployed so much so I can stay away from all that crap...oh wait...F@#$!

Cooter

You think the Air Force is bad with the slogans, try dealing with AFN down in Antarctica under $hitty reception. The DoD propaganda gets old after the first hour!

[Bergman]

There is a certain peace of mind that comes from knowing you at least have a slim chance of bailing out.

Having said that, I have never in 12 years run across someone who actually thought it was feasible. First of all, there is the fact that the chutes are located next to the boom pod, roughly 69' away from where most of us usually sit and where the primary bailout exit is also located. I have always gone under the assumption that whatever could happen to the airplane that would cause me to want to bail out would also likely prevent me from making it to the back of the jet, strapping a chute on, walking back up front, putting my helmet on, activating the chining bar, and actually bailing out.

I'm not terribly upset at losing the chutes , but I am a bit concerned that they think taking 300# worth of safety gear off is worth the $.01 per flight it'll save in fuel. It makes you wonder "what's next?" Hopefully not the microwaves! Oh, wait....

[Scooter14]

Ditto what Berg said.

I like how they take the chutes off and then take an East Coast -135 to go do a Guam Business Effort. In Jan 07 I flew halfway around the world to offload 6k. I sure am glad there weren't tankers nearby in Kadena or Hickam or TDY to Guam or anything.

Oh, wait...

[Stiffler]

I think taking them off is gay. There has been a successful bailout, and I can think of a few scenarios where I would bail out vs. land the jet.

Finally, what about our "other mission" where we actually wear the chutes while flying? Now what?

[zrooster99]

Heard from an HQ AMC Stan Evil guy (when I simmed with him) they are planning on doing away with chutes on the C-17 too...logic: "we've never had to use them"...what a bunch of crap.

[Guest Pogo]

I was going to say I knew of someone who wore full 'chute, bonedome and survival vest flying the KC-135 in OIF.

Guess that's different.

[Guest xtndr50boom]

I was going to say I knew of someone who wore full 'chute, bonedome and survival vest flying the KC-135 in OIF.

Guess that's different.

Wasn't that douche nozzle on the cover of the safety magazine? I remember thinking "WTFO?" when I saw he was in a 135 wearing the whole getup

[M2]

My philosophy towards chutes (and a lot of other things) is that 'it is better to have and not need, than to need and not have!'

Having jumped from a few aircraft (for fun, of course!), I always thought it was a good skill to have. Honestly, there is nothing tough about it...all you have to do is remember to pull the cord! Other than that, all you are doing is falling...

Cheers! M2

[Buddy Spike]

So are they going to save more money by not sending these dudes to combat parachuting before SERE or Water survival at Pensacola?

[FourFans]

So are they going to save more money by not sending these dudes to combat parachuting before SERE or Water survival at Pensacola?

Sure! Hell. Why not do it AF wide? The CBT will have all of four lines of text.

- JUMP OUT

- PULL D-HANDLE

- TURN ON RADIO

- CRY LIKE SCOTT O'GRADY

Why would you have to know what to do with that stuff on the end of the 20ft line attached to you...or the stuff in the vest you left on the plane. Someone else will take care of it!

Maybe we can save enough money to buy the F-22 a mission in the war on terror.

[Buddy Spike]

Sure! Hell. Why not do it AF wide? The CBT will have all of four lines of text.

- JUMP OUT

- PULL D-HANDLE

- TURN ON RADIO

- CRY LIKE SCOTT O'GRADY

Why would you have to know what to do with that stuff on the end of the 20ft line attached to you...or the stuff in the vest you left on the plane. Someone else will take care of it!

Maybe we can save enough money to buy the F-22 a mission in the war on terror.

Pull what D-HANDLE? They just took away their parachutes. BTW, I'm talking about the combat parachuting class that generally happens the day before SERE starts, not SERE itself.

[FourFans]

Pull what D-HANDLE? They just took away their parachutes. BTW, I'm talking about the combat parachuting class that generally happens the day before SERE starts, not SERE itself.

Why not take it to the next level though. You know the AF will. I won't be surprised to see a parachuting and water survival refresher CBT to replace the actual exercise of the hanging harness and the pool/lake. If you ask me, the places that the AF tries to save money are equivalent to KC-135 airspeeds: Ludicrous.

They could retire old broken airplanes that take more money to keep flying than it would cost to buy new ones....nope

They could get rid of all the excessive legs flown by airlift aircraft by simply listening to aircraft commander's inputs...nope

They could hold payment to contractors until goods and services that are late are actually delivered...nope

Instead they cut critical jobs and training, buy more expensive toys, and then put LTs in charge of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of the fiscal year. Yeah...better get rid of those parachutes...

Give me a break.

[Guest Boom]

equivalent to KC-135 airspeeds: Ludicrous.

?

[Guest Risp]

Why not take it to the next level though. You know the AF will. I won't be surprised to see a parachuting and water survival refresher CBT to replace the actual exercise of the hanging harness and the pool/lake. If you ask me, the places that the AF tries to save money are equivalent to KC-135 airspeeds: Ludicrous.

They could retire old broken airplanes that take more money to keep flying than it would cost to buy new ones....nope

They could get rid of all the excessive legs flown by airlift aircraft by simply listening to aircraft commander's inputs...nope

They could hold payment to contractors until goods and services that are late are actually delivered...nope

Instead they cut critical jobs and training, buy more expensive toys, and then put LTs in charge of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars at the end of the fiscal year. Yeah...better get rid of those parachutes...

Give me a break.

Try millions... I see it every year in the acq bussiness.

[Guest tmickel]

They could retire old broken airplanes that take more money to keep flying than it would cost to buy new ones....nope

Might want to research this one a little. The Air Force has been begging Congress for years to let them retire older aircraft (esp C-130s) that are sitting around taking up rampspace and will never again be flown (until the day they're finally flown to the boneyard). Congress won't let 'em do it, and on the rare occasion when they do allow the AF to send 'em to DM, they usually force them to keep the non-flyable a/c in a "ready state" so they could theoretically be fired up and put back into service someday.