Boycott Clovis New Mexico

[Whitman]

Like was stated above, every base is what you make of it. Hell, its not like you're living there for the rest of your life. Just a few years.

Really? Tell that to the Gunship guys.

[Flare]

My sister-in-law was born in Clovis, and lived there until she went to college. Her parents still live there.

There's not too many people that talk bad about the place that they grew up in. After all, it just grows on you, and you get used to it. Clovis, however.....well, my SIL hates the place.

Sorry Techsan....I've been there too. Clovis sucks.

[Rocker]

1. I have eaten at the so-called "Taco Box" passing though Clovis one day years ago. Seriously. It was alright.

2. They have a Super Walmart, a Golden Corrale, and Bait & Bullets...what else could you possibly want in life?

3. Bait & Bullets looks to be, by far, the most interesting looking place from the photos, in addition to the landscape.

4. At least it's not Cannon...wait, what? Shit...

5. Good times.

[Baseops.Net]

I always find it funny when a few people try to convince the masses that a certain place doesn't suck. I mean reputations are earned for a reason. How many times do you think you have to convince someone that Hickam or Rota or Key West or Hurlburt doesn't suck? Likewise, how many people have a certain impression of Fayette-Nam or Laughlin, or Clovis -- it's probably for a reason...

For some reason the argument is being convoluted to somehow attack a Gunship pilot's loyalty or an AFSOC person's motivation if they are adverse to moving to Clovis. If you are in the military (even the Air Force) you certainly have to follow orders, but you don't have to like it. It's not like the guys complaining about Clovis need to be put on suicide watch or something drastic. I can perhaps understand the sensitivities of the fella that grew up there and has family there, etc. -- but let me tell you, most reputations are earned. I was at the "remote base" Laughlin with Toro - it pretty much sucked. I did "make the most of it" - drinking heavily, lake Amistad, Pecos Canyon, driving to San Antonio, etc. But that doesn't make up for the fact that Del Rio sucked ass.

After all most Viper guys have been hating on Clovis for decades - could they all be wrong?

[Cooter]

Did anyone notice the house made of straw that was all torn apart with the door still standing in that video? Hey if the 3 little pigs won't live there then I bet nobody would want to.

Cooter

[Mambo]

After all most Viper guys have been hating on Clovis for decades - could they all be wrong?

The Vipers only spent about 13 years there, the F-111's spent almost 30 years at Cannon. That's all I heard about at Mt. Home..."at least you're not at Cannon". Then I got orders to Cannon. Spent 2 years in Clovis with the Ravens and Baseops is correct...there is a reason it has the reputation that it does. You definitely have to go out and make your own fun, and that usually involved a case of beer and an AK-47 for us.

Some highlights for those headed there:

Leal's has very good Mexican food.

Great dirt bike / mt bike riding. Sand dunes east of town.

Plenty of areas/wide open spaces for horseback riding, shooting, ect...

Taos has some of the best powder in the West.

Santa Fe' in the summer is pretty descent, great food there.

If you are interested in getting married and starting a family without going thru all that pregnancy stuff...Clovis is the place!

[Guest ruckerstud]

The thing I find interesting is that no one has mentioned the airspace issue. If Cannon was closed, would the FAA try to take back the what at least on a sectional look like four MOAs there? If so, just keeping that airspace seems like a pretty decent reason to want to keep it open. That being said, did that video make it look like that place is a grade a shithole, yep, but could you do the same thing with any UPT or Missille base. I am pretty sure you could even do the same thing with Kirtland if you were willing to drive farther, but still stay inside the city limits. So, Cannon probably sucks, but I don't think it sucks any more than a lot of other USAF bases, and many more that were closed. It does still seem like kind of a raw deal to send the dudes with one of the highest ops tempos there.

[Cooter]

The thing I find interesting is that no one has mentioned the airspace issue. If Cannon was closed, would the FAA try to take back the what at least on a sectional look like four MOAs there? If so, just keeping that airspace seems like a pretty decent reason to want to keep it open. That being said, did that video make it look like that place is a grade a shithole, yep, but could you do the same thing with any UPT or Missille base. I am pretty sure you could even do the same thing with Kirtland if you were willing to drive farther, but still stay inside the city limits. So, Cannon probably sucks, but I don't think it sucks any more than a lot of other USAF bases, and many more that were closed. It does still seem like kind of a raw deal to send the dudes with one of the highest ops tempos there.

Do you want a stratgically important missile base in the middle of a populated area? UPT bases in the middle of nowhere make sense to me, force the studs to focus on flying not on partying. Case in point, San Antonio for SUNT (soon to be Pensacola) lots to be distracted by there. Just my .02.

Cooter

[Combat Platypus]

The thing I find interesting is that no one has mentioned the airspace issue. If Cannon was closed, would the FAA try to take back the what at least on a sectional look like four MOAs there? If so, just keeping that airspace seems like a pretty decent reason to want to keep it open. That being said, did that video make it look like that place is a grade a shithole, yep, but could you do the same thing with any UPT or Missille base. I am pretty sure you could even do the same thing with Kirtland if you were willing to drive farther, but still stay inside the city limits. So, Cannon probably sucks, but I don't think it sucks any more than a lot of other USAF bases, and many more that were closed. It does still seem like kind of a raw deal to send the dudes with one of the highest ops tempos there.

MOA's yes. However, most of the land under them is not owned by the DOD. Most of Eglin's MOA's are not either, but check out the restricted range areas R-2915 looks bigger than R-5104 and R-5105 combined . Then add in R-2914 and the water ranges for Eglin (HRT is actually an old Eglin aux field). Land owned=live fire, well at least easier than not. The MOA's are used for BFM and flying at altitude. AFSOC needs airspace to do LL/airdrop or live fire.

Edit: FWIW KIKR was a good time with plenty to do and good places to live.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Combat Platypus

[pbar]

I diverted into Cannon one time and when I got a look at the city, I was thankful to be living in Abilene (Dyess). And Drabilene sucks too.

I think all of us joined the AF with the expectation that we might have to sacrifice our lives in the line of duty but I, for one, never considered giving up having a life off duty because we had to live in a small town in the middle of nowhere. Even more, having my family put up with the same thing... There are some good points to small towns like Abilene and Clovis, i.e. no traffic, little air pollution, buying a good house for a reasonable price, low crime, etc. but I don't want to rot there for ten years because my jet only has two bases.

Anyone know if AFSOC's move to Cannon is going to adversely impact Dyess's and Barksdale's access to the ranges?

PBAR

[HercDude]

You are guessing wrong dude. I've been doing this a LONG time, and I've never met a single person like that in the gunship community.

I have.

I've got no desire to go to Cannon, and I sure as hell agree it looks like a total dump. But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think all this hate has nothing to do with the fact that the guys now populating the place have been homesteading on the Florida panhandle for their entire careers. Lots of AF bases suck, but you don't see boycott Columbus or boycott Fayetteville videos on YouTube, do you?

Aside from making you look like a snobbish prick and pissing off the locals who pay the taxes that run whatever community services you have around there, making a video like that and starting shit with the base community I think gives the wrong impression . . . that we do our job conditionally.

[ClearedHot]

I have.

I've got no desire to go to Cannon, and I sure as hell agree it looks like a total dump. But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think all this hate has nothing to do with the fact that the guys now populating the place have been homesteading on the Florida panhandle for their entire careers. Lots of AF bases suck, but you don't see boycott Columbus or boycott Fayetteville videos on YouTube, do you?

Aside from making you look like a snobbish prick and pissing off the locals who pay the taxes that run whatever community services you have around there, making a video like that and starting shit with the base community I think gives the wrong impression . . . that we do our job conditionally.

Completely disagree...Specifically...

"But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think all this hate has nothing to do with the fact that the guys now populating the place have been homesteading on the Florida panhandle for their entire careers."

Do you know this to be a fact, or are you pulling it out of your arse as an assumption? Not all Gunship guys camp at Hurlburt their entire career, I've PCSed 8 times, how about you?

These are the most dedicated dudes I've ever met. I know a few dudes who just left on their 17th rotation. The way this move will most likely happen....deploy for 90-120, return and immediately pack your bags, forced sale of you house for a loss in a shit housing market, arrive at new location with over-priced homes and almost no choice, unpack, 60 days later leave your family in said shit hole and deploy for another 90-120. Asking for a little stability and a little less suck in their home life is not a lot to ask.

I volunteered to do this job and I've always gone where the man has told me to, so please don't insult my intelligence with made up facts that you know jack shit zero about.

Bottomline, If I have to eat a rotten egg, I will, just don't expect me to smile while I am doing it.

Oh yeah...Clovis is a shit hole.

[HercDude]

Completely disagree...Specifically...

"But you guys are kidding yourselves if you think all this hate has nothing to do with the fact that the guys now populating the place have been homesteading on the Florida panhandle for their entire careers."

Do you know this to be a fact, or are you pulling it out of your arse as an assumption? Not all Gunship guys camp at Hurlburt their entire career, I've PCSed 8 times, how about you?

These are the most dedicated dudes I've ever met. I know a few dudes who just left on their 17th rotation. The way this move will most likely happen....deploy for 90-120, return and immediately pack your bags, forced sale of you house for a loss in a shit housing market, arrive at new location with over-priced homes and almost no choice, unpack, 60 days later leave your family in said shit hole and deploy for another 90-120. Asking for a little stability and a little less suck in their home life is not a lot to ask.

I volunteered to do this job and I've always gone where the man has told me to, so please don't insult my intelligence with made up facts that you know jack shit zero about.

Since you asked, I've PCS'd 7 times in 7 & 1/2 years. I guess that makes me somehow hard core enough to reply to you.

I never said "all Gunship guys camp at Hurlburt their entire career." I'm not sure where you got that from but I'll apologize if you read into what I said to mean that. I am not trying to imply that people only go to/stay in AFSOC for cushy locations. What I am saying is that guys who have managed to stay in Florida for multiple assignments in a row (certainly not exclusively gunship crew dogs, but don't try and tell me you don't know who I am talking about), and are pissed about having to leave that, are acting out in a way that is improper - and uncalled for - in light of the fact that so many others have to endure shitty PCS locations just like them. That's it.

I'll stick my foot in my mouth if someone can intelligently explain to me, even though Cannon AFB has been in Clovis for 60 years, why is it just now that a "boycott Clovis" movement has sprung up? And why is it that there are no videos on YouTube that say "Boycott Del Rio . . . or Minot . . . or Sumter . . . or Fayetteville?" Hell while we are at it we could talk about Army & Marine Corp stations. You want to talk about shit-holes . . . ever been to Camp Lejeune?

Bottomline, If I have to eat a rotten egg, I will, just don't expect me to smile while I am doing it.

Well said. And I totally agree.

[stract]

You want to talk about shit-holes . . . ever been to Camp Lejeune?

or NAS Fallon. Sucks for Naval Aviators that Top Gun is there now...

[X-Citerbox]

"2" on Camp Lejeune being a shit hole but still not as bad as CANNON

Edited March 9, 2008 by X-Citerbox

[Guest JimmyH]

Having lived out that way (E. NM), I'll agree. As a place to be stationed, Clovis SUCKS. I certainly wouldn't want to go there if I had a choice. But I wouldn't want to live in Altus, Del Rio, Minot or a whole host of other places, either. With that, I'll agree with HercDude. I didn't join the Air Force to have freedom to choose where I'll live. I'll worry about where to settle down when I get out.

That being said, if you can't make a great life for you and your family there (or any of the other mentioned places) you just aren't trying hard enough. It might not be Destin (where I've also lived), but its not THAT bad. Clovis itself might not offer much, but there are plenty of great things to do with your family within a relatively short drive.

Unless you're single. Then yes, it is that bad.

[Techsan]

Unless you're single. Then yes, it is that bad.

You could always go to the Fair and cruise the 4-H babes. Seriously though, single guys have about a 1.5 hr drive to Lubbock. Lots of tail there with Texas Tech being there. Not optimal, but at least its something.

Reference:

[Berry]

You could always go to the Fair and cruise the 4-H babes. Seriously though, single guys have about a 1.5 hr drive to Lubbock. Lots of tail there with Texas Tech being there. Not optimal, but at least its something.

Reference:

'shopped.

[Techsan]

'shopped.

Yeah, I'm aware.

[Container STS]

You're kidding, right?

That's what the good mayor said...Green Zone or Clovis...real nice guy. I wonder if Iraqi's are offended by his comments

(not that we should listen of course).

"What, a ticket to Clovis?...F*#K it, they have Applebees, I will stay here with my people"

PS TX Tech...damn hottest porn team,..... I mean swim team I have ever seen...

Edited March 11, 2008 by Container STS

[M2]

OK, a little reality check here. That ain't the Texas Tech swim team! I suspect it is a 'Miss Texas Tech' beauty pageant or something, but those fine young fillies are not competitive swimmers. Trust me, I have scrutinized that pic for hours!

(Actually, I have been told they are the 2003 Tampa Bay Storm Cheerleaders; and the TT logos were Photochopped on. But who cares?)

Secondly, Mt Home was “only” an hour away from Boise but it wasn’t a drive I would want to make every day.

We all can and do “embrace the suck,” but it bites when our families have to; and anyone who says that taking care of their family is not important will soon find they won’t have one to take care of! I have encountered that bozo mentality too many times, to include having a squadron commander who once told me “the Air Force cost me my first marriage.” Bullshit! He cost him his first marriage by putting the Air Force ahead of his family.

I wish I could remember his name, but I once heard a very astute Army one-star speak who laid it out perfectly (which surprised me considering the color of his uniform). He said you first priority in life is to take care of family. If you didn’t do that, you were of no use to him; as he knew he wouldn’t have your full attention if you were worried about your wife and kids. You second priority should be to yourself. If you don’t take care of yourself, than once again you are no use to him. The military comes third. Once you have completed the other two, then he knew you could focus on the mission and deliver him the 100% he needed from you.

As much fun, exciting and rewarding my military career was; one day it was over. But my life wasn’t, and the reason for that was because I still had a wife and kids waiting for me when I came home and hung up the uniform for the final time. Like it or not, folks will go to Cannon and they will make the best out of it; but wanting better for your family is nothing to berate a person about. If anything, it is a commendable trait that more people should have. And the folks of AFSOC will go to Clovis and make it work, despite the attitude of the mayor and a few others. Why? Because they are professionals and that is what they do (and do a lot better than most of the Air Force). Also because they know if the Viper guys could survive there, they sure as hell can!

And I’ve been to Lubbock, and I have no desire to go back!

Cheers! M2

[HerkDerka]

but those fine young fillies are not competitive swimmers. Trust me, I have scrutinized that pic for hours!

Be careful...too much and you'll go blind.

HD

[M2]

Be careful...too much and you'll go blind.

HD

No prob, PRK fixed that!

Cheers! M2

[Guest HercNav]

Cover one eye when "scrutinizing." That way, you only lose one eye. The trick remains: keeping track of which eye you covered last time. But that's usually taken care of by which hand is dominant....

[sputnik]

I spent 4.5 years in Del Rio, went xcountry quite a few times through Clovis. And it always made me feel better because "at least I'm not at Cannon." Yeah vipers survived it, but they had a lot more than the one other PCS option facing AFSOC.

Here's one more vote for Clovis sucks. In my travels of the US it is clear and away the worst place I've ever been. Yes it's an opinion, and it's mine.

I vol'ed Laughlin, I vol'ed Altus (thank God I didn't have to go there), I'd 7 day opt before Clovis. My family didn't sign up for that.

And what kind of evil asshole would put UAVs there? Not enough to kick you in the nuts with a non flying assignment, better kick you again with Clovis.