Engineering

[Guest F16crewdwgg]

I wasn't sure if this belonged in ROTC or Pilot selection thread.

Anyway, I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and I "heard" that USAF is looking for civil engineers. Mechanical Engineering is alot differenct from Civil. I was curious if wanting to try for Pilot slot with a Mechanical Engineering degree would hurt me. Would they say hey we need you more as a Engineer even though you are qualified for pilot? I wanted to put down some type of engineering job for a fall back if I don't get NAV or PILOT. Then I was thinking maybe thats not a good idea because they may just give me the engineering position.

Any suggestions??

Also, Anyone here who got selected for a pilot slot and had engineering as a major, can you offer some suggestions? I feel like I'm going nuts sometimes with the work load. I currently have about a 3.1gpa and I'm doing pretty well this semester.

Thanks.

[Trogdor]

I wasn't sure if this belonged in ROTC or Pilot selection thread.

Anyway, I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and I "heard" that USAF is looking for civil engineers. Mechanical Engineering is alot differenct from Civil. I was curious if wanting to try for Pilot slot with a Mechanical Engineering degree would hurt me. Would they say hey we need you more as a Engineer even though you are qualified for pilot? I wanted to put down some type of engineering job for a fall back if I don't get NAV or PILOT. Then I was thinking maybe thats not a good idea because they may just give me the engineering position.

Any suggestions??

Also, Anyone here who got selected for a pilot slot and had engineering as a major, can you offer some suggestions? I feel like I'm going nuts sometimes with the work load. I currently have about a 3.1gpa and I'm doing pretty well this semester.

Thanks.

Not sure how ROTC does it, because I went to the Academy, but they told me if I didnt go rated, didnt get a rated spot, or DQ'd for whatever reason then I would be a scientist no matter what I put down. Furthermore, the rated spot did trump the engineering as long as I could get it. At the time (three years ago) scientist/engineering was one of the few fields that was well below what they wanted in the Air Force. I got my pilot spot and am now flying with no problems. I imagine the AFSC preference is the same regardless of your commissioning source, unless things have changed. Hope that helps.

[Slander]

I got a pilot slot last year (I graduate in 26 days) and I'm studying EE. Don't switch your major to something you're not interested in. As far as I've been told, it doesn't matter if you're CE, EE, ME, CpE, IE, AE, whateverE, if you're a tech major you can be a scientist and that's what they want. The pilot categorization happens before the non-rated jobs so you'll know in advance.

Bottom line: don't change your major unless you're interested in the new subject, because you can be sure that if you're not interested in what you're studying you won't do well.

PM me if you have any other questions.

[Guest felder]

I am finishing up 4 years of Aerospace Engineering through ROTC and have a pilot slot.

Engineering can hurt you. When looking at your GPA, the AF doesn't take into account what major you are in. So, a 3.0 in Engineering vs. a 4.0 in Management means the 4.0 is still going to win out. HOWEVER, your Cadre really has the final say so in everything, especially because the Commander's ranking makes up 50% of your pilot selection score. I have a 2.75 GPA and was really worried about it hurting me, but I got my pilot slot. I didn't want to switch because I wanted the Aerospace background for test pilot stuff later on. A LOT of people at my det have switched majors just to get their pilot slots.

So, what this all means is that it all depends on you. Like it was already said, if you like the Engineering, stick with it, but know you'll have to work pretty hard on your GPA to get that pilot slot. If your dream is to be a pilot, and engineering isn't that important to you, then I would suggest you look into changing majors.

[Guest trotman]

I'll be finishing up a degree in EE from VT in December (non-ROTC) and it has definitely gotten the best of my GPA (2.7 - should be closer to a 3.0 by packet submittal). I'm pretty new to the forum - I apologize in advance if I'm asking questions I should be searching, but is there any way to combat the low GPA? I'm going to be logging flight hours over the summer, but there's no way I'll have the time, or more limiting, the money to get a full PPL. I have a rather extensive background in quality leadership positions on campus (hence the GPA) and I'm working on good letters of rec (former supervisors, a VP of the University, working on AF officer...). What else am I missing and/or what else can I do to increase my chances?

Thanks in advance

[Guest ASUcadet]

Engineering will screw you over. Technically, you go up for the pilot board first, but by being an engineer the odds are stacked against you pretty heavily. I have a 3.1 in civil engineering and I know it didn't help my commander's ranking at all, but all of the negative side effects that come with pulling frequent all-nighters, missing PT to cram for tests, and trying to balance a class-load of deformable solids, EMF physics, numerical methods, and totally-irrelevant-math-class-thats-just-in-the-curriculum-to-piss-you-off, will tank your CC ranking. I got 100 on every PFT, got middle third at FT (and I know I could've done better), I have a PPL, and an 88 PCSM (which is a higher score than anyone who got selected for pilot from our detachment), held leadership positions 3 semesters in a row (they finally cut me a break and gave me FLT/CD this semester), but I'm a CSO-select right now. I know if I would've majored in anything else and devoted the extra time to ROTC, or simply gotten a higher GPA in an easier major, I would have a pilot slot right now. But keep in mind that they just paid me 50 grand to go through school because they wanted an engineer. So, the morale of the story; they're not going to force you to be an engineer if you're qualified for pilot or nav, but your CC ranking is the deciding factor about whether or not you'll fly and you'll be competing on a 'level' playing field for a pilot slot with cadets who have a lot more free time to devote to ROTC.

[Guest Stangmata]

Can it hurt, well only in the ways mentioned above. If you can pull off a great GPA without muchh sacrifice, then you it won't. They don't look at your major during the selection process.

However, do not limit yourself and go about an easier etc degree just so that you can try and get a pilot's slot. Who knows what may prevent you from becoming a pilot. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Slander]

The moral of the story is study what you like. I promise you that if you like engineering you can do just fine (3.3 gpa) in it and still get a pilot slot -- I did. Play the ROTC game, do well at FT, keep your grades up, and get yourself a rated slot. It doesn't matter what you study, if you don't like it you won't do well. Don't be an engineering major because you think it will help you. Don't be a business major because you think it will help you. Be the literature major or whatever it is because you're interested in the material. You're in college, ROTC is an extra curricular, or if you're not in ROTC your major won't really matter. Don't do things just because you think ROTC will like it, that's how you turn into a ROTC-Nazi douche.

[jazzdude]

The moral of the story is study what you like. I promise you that if you like engineering you can do just fine (3.3 gpa) in it and still get a pilot slot -- I did. Play the ROTC game, do well at FT, keep your grades up, and get yourself a rated slot. It doesn't matter what you study, if you don't like it you won't do well. Don't be an engineering major because you think it will help you. Don't be a business major because you think it will help you. Be the literature major or whatever it is because you're interested in the material. You're in college, ROTC is an extra curricular, or if you're not in ROTC your major won't really matter. Don't do things just because you think ROTC will like it, that's how you turn into a ROTC-Nazi douche.

I'll second this. Study what interests you, manage your time, get help when you need it, and you'll come out fine. Engineering can be very demanding, so plan your time accordingly

[Guest ASUcadet]

The moral of the story is study what you like. I promise you that if you like engineering you can do just fine (3.3 gpa) in it and still get a pilot slot -- I did. Play the ROTC game, do well at FT, keep your grades up, and get yourself a rated slot. It doesn't matter what you study, if you don't like it you won't do well. Don't be an engineering major because you think it will help you. Don't be a business major because you think it will help you. Be the literature major or whatever it is because you're interested in the material. You're in college, ROTC is an extra curricular, or if you're not in ROTC your major won't really matter. Don't do things just because you think ROTC will like it, that's how you turn into a ROTC-Nazi douche.

Good advice, but if you're on scholarship (and odds are that you are if you're an engineer) then be careful after you get back from FT because ROTC is a little bit more than an extra-curricular... if you can't meet any type of standards (grades, attendance, can't graduate on time, etc) after two years on scholarship then you run the risk of getting enlisted. I don't mean to scare you, but it's happened to three of our cadets in the last year or so. I took engineering because of the scholarship and I figured that the first two years were just 'weed-out' classes and the last two/three years would be easier, but I was wrong. I still have classes where half the class gets a D. Like I said, it can be done, it'll just be a little more difficult.

[Guest F16crewdwgg]

I'll second this. Study what interests you, manage your time, get help when you need it, and you'll come out fine. Engineering can be very demanding, so plan your time accordingly

Awesome, Thanks for all the replys guys. I do like engineering but I can relate to alot of what has been said. I think What I might do is spread it out another semester to give me some breathing room.

[jazzdude]

Awesome, Thanks for all the replys guys. I do like engineering but I can relate to alot of what has been said. I think What I might do is spread it out another semester to give me some breathing room.

Excellent idea. I ended up deciding to do one summer of full time school to help balance out the workload. Do what you've got to do- everyone's situation/experience is different, but if you like your field of study, and becoming a pilot/working towards a commission is something you really want, you'll find a way to get it done

Best of luck to you

[Riddller]

Most detachment commander's will rank a person with a decent gpa in engineering higher than someone with a fantastic gpa in underwater basket weaving, all other things being equal. I was Mech E, didn't really participate more than I had to until after FT, which then I had leadership positions, so I had to. I did have a good gpa (3.6), but it wasn't the best. I focused on my schoolwork though, and it showed in my gpa. I was still ranked very well and am now 2 months into pilot training.

I will tell you right now, now matter much those 18 hour days in college suck, no matter how much the 12 hour days here at UPT suck, that first time you grease a touch-and-go, jam the throttle forward and pull up into a 30 degree nose high, 80 degree angle of bank, 3 G pull for downwind on a cloudless day to do it all over again, it's all worth it, and I'm sure those with more experience than me will tell you it just gets better.

How much do you want it?

[Guest LittleMan]

Just a couple of thoughts from someone who has been where you are and decided differently than everyone else here. I got an ROTC scholarship out of high school for ECE. I thought it would be great because I had worked with software and hardware since middle school and liked solving problems, etc. Well, math was always my best subject, but I just couldn't get my mind around Calculus. I also figured that these classes were just weeders and was sure that when I actually started on circuits, logic, programming, etc. After taking a couple of those classes I realized that I really didn't like it and decided to get into something else. Good thing for the "year to decide if this is really for you" clause on the ROTC scholarship. I got off scholarship and have enjoyed college and my Biology major (still just as difficult, but a lot different than engineering... some Chemistry classes were just as difficult as Calc, too, but I enjoyed them a lot more). Anyway, I just started applying to Guard UPT boards and will let everyone know how it goes. :-)

[Guest F16crewdwgg]

So I been doing alot of thinking after I recieved a 40% on one of my engineering tests. I just found that out. I'm thinking at this rate its either going to be engineer or pilot. I don't think I can have both. I really wan't pilot more (if it all works out), So I think I'm changing my major to computer science. I have CS class right now that we have to take and I really enjoy it. I think I will be able to get a way better gpa doing something I really enjoy like you guys said.

I enjoy engineering but not enough to possibly sacrafice a pilot slot in the USAF.

Thanks for all the help.

[Guest L Unit]

I'm going the guard route, so this may not all apply, but some food for thought:

Pick a major that you enjoy. God forbid, if the Air Force career that you desire doesn't materialize, you don't want to be stuck doing a job you hate, just because you're qualified for it. Yes, you can go back to school for another degree, but the one thing that we never get back or make more of is time. Can you waste another 2-4 years getting that second degree? Can you be sure that's what you want to do when you're done?

I personally picked Mech E. I love the subject material and knowing how things work and why they break. I hate the workload. (I did choose to impose that upon myself, however.) My senior project is to build a racecar. How cool is that? Pretty cool.

Edited April 2, 2008 by L Unit

[Guest RenegadeCK]

I'm gonna piggy-back on some of what's been said. I've been researching this for years since I've been in ROTC, and am an engineer myself. If you look at the Order of Merit pie chart 15% is your raw GPA. This 15% doesn't take your major into account, but again its only 15% and can be easily off-set by a decent PCSM. However the overall deciding factor, your CC's ranking is 50% of the OM score. That 50% is like a regurgitation of everything else encompassing grades, PFA, participation etc...but it is also subjective. This is where having your tech major comes into advantage b/c the cadre definitely take into account the difficulty of your major. Engineers tend of get alot of leeway when it comes to grades.

So to say the underwater basket weaving major with a 4.0 will always beat out the engineer with a 3.0...not at all, that depends on the individual.

Not for nothing either, but its one thing to know how to fly a plane. It's another to fly a plane and understand the systems on board keeping the thing aloft. Makes for better situational awareness. Never forget as an engineer- work hard, play hard.

[Guest F16crewdwgg]

I'm going the guard route, so this may not all apply, but some food for thought:

Pick a major that you enjoy. God forbid, if the Air Force career that you desire doesn't materialize, you don't want to be stuck doing a job you hate, just because you're qualified for it. Yes, you can go back to school for another degree, but the one thing that we never get back or make more of is time. Can you waste another 2-4 years getting that second degree? Can you be sure that's what you want to do when you're done?

I personally picked Mech E. I love the subject material and knowing how things work and why they break. I hate the workload. (I did choose to impose that upon myself, however.) My senior project is to build a racecar. How cool is that? Pretty cool.

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[Guest F16crewdwgg]

I have another question. I'm not doing so good in my class, so I was thinking about dropping it but it would put me under 12 credit hours. right at 11 to be exact. The det told me if I did that I'd be put on special studnet status where I wouldn't be allowed to attend LLAB or PT, but would still get credit for my AS courses. Then next semester I would come back in again. What would you guys do?

[Guest L Unit]

I have another question. I'm not doing so good in my class, so I was thinking about dropping it but it would put me under 12 credit hours. right at 11 to be exact. The det told me if I did that I'd be put on special studnet status where I wouldn't be allowed to attend LLAB or PT, but would still get credit for my AS courses. Then next semester I would come back in again. What would you guys do?

You might want to check that you CAN drop a class. If you are on a typical semester schedule, You started sometime in January, and will be finishing in May. Many schools have several drop deadlines. The first one is usually the deadline to drop with no penalty, the second incurs some sort of financial penalty (some percent of the tuition will be refunded), and there are one or two more that you need the instructors and/or dean's permission to drop. For the last ones you usually have to be failing already.

What that means is that you may actually recieve a failing grade for the class that you drop. Go see an advisor first. Also consider: some schools have a course forgiveness program. For some number of credit hours over your career there, if yo get a grade below some cutoff (C-, for example), you can take the course again the next semester and replace the grade you got before. Again, go see an advisor about that.

Check this out and get some more info, it should help you make a decision.

[Big Bear]

I wasn't sure if this belonged in ROTC or Pilot selection thread.

Anyway, I'm studying Mechanical Engineering and I "heard" that USAF is looking for civil engineers. Mechanical Engineering is alot differenct from Civil. I was curious if wanting to try for Pilot slot with a Mechanical Engineering degree would hurt me. Would they say hey we need you more as a Engineer even though you are qualified for pilot? I wanted to put down some type of engineering job for a fall back if I don't get NAV or PILOT. Then I was thinking maybe thats not a good idea because they may just give me the engineering position.

Any suggestions??

Also, Anyone here who got selected for a pilot slot and had engineering as a major, can you offer some suggestions? I feel like I'm going nuts sometimes with the work load. I currently have about a 3.1gpa and I'm doing pretty well this semester.

Thanks.

To answer your origional question:

What your major is, really isn't taken into account for the pilot selection process (Unfortunately). It plays 0 points into the equation that they use. The most important thing is your GPA. I know several guys who started in engineering, changed majors to business, or something easier, boosted their GPA's and are now in pilot training or are already done. So...

If you're worried that ME won't count as much as CE, it doesn't matter (for pilot). I think what they meant by they're looking for Civil Engineers, probably means to take up the job as a Civil Engineer in the Air Force...

I hope that helps.

[Bronco130]

Yeah only half of us made it with engineering degress that started at my det, but I wouldn't sweat it. I partied all day every day in college and still got a pilot slot, and am very competitive for ENJJPT. Just pursue a degree you are actually interested in so you don't mind doing some work every now and then. Because as a lot of people can tell ya, Brooks can change your life direction in an instant without you even knowing somethin was wrong..so you need a good backup in a field that you will still enjoy.

And as for a comment to flyingwolf, I do recommend doing AAS/PR or somethin that's corrolated with ROTC. Sure a 3.7gpa is cool, but being #1 in your class due to busting your ass in ROTC is even better when it comes to applying for pilot. I sacrificed my gpa (3.25) a bit to get a high ranking, and I never have regretted it. (Now if you have a 3.7 and #1, then you better ace your PCSM and you'll be flying fighters in a second).

All in all you just gotta pick a path and stick with it, maybe a high gpa is your goal, maybe not.

also....an additional plus is technical majors get ya to test pilot school

Edited July 11, 2008 by GCC

[Guest ASUcadet]

Yeah only half of us made it with engineering degress that started at my det, but I wouldn't sweat it. I partied all day every day in college and still got a pilot slot, and am very competitive for ENJJPT. Just pursue a degree you are actually interested in so you don't mind doing some work every now and then. Because as a lot of people can tell ya, Brooks can change your life direction in an instant without you even knowing somethin was wrong..so you need a good backup in a field that you will still enjoy.

And as for a comment to flyingwolf, I do recommend doing AAS/PR or somethin that's corrolated with ROTC. Sure a 3.7gpa is cool, but being #1 in your class due to busting your ass in ROTC is even better when it comes to applying for pilot. I sacrificed my gpa (3.25) a bit to get a high ranking, and I never have regretted it. (Now if you have a 3.7 and #1, then you better ace your PCSM and you'll be flying fighters in a second).

All in all you just gotta pick a path and stick with it, maybe a high gpa is your goal, maybe not.

also....an additional plus is technical majors get ya to test pilot school

Agreed, but know your limits. I too, now have the alcohol tolerance of an Irish dock-worker, but I accepted too many positions in ROTC. Our POC class was small, so they were desperate to fill leadership positions and I ended up with one of the most difficult positions in the wing, without a deputy, with 22 credits, and it was the semester the IG inspected our det. I knew I was in over my head, but I wasn't vocal enough and I paid for it. You really have to know when to draw the line and make it clear to everyone in your chain (including the cadre), when you're being set up for failure, but make sure you have some solutions to bring to the table.