C-17 Globemaster Q&A

[Guest levei363]

THREAD REVIVAL: Just wondering how the new deployment situation since this past summer is for the C-17 guys out there...how you have seen the TDY rate change, quality of life changes...it's been about 6 months now so it should be interesting to see what y'all have to say...

[C17Driver]

It has helped a lot in the way that guys are home lots more. However, in some ways, it has now swung the other way. Don't come to the C-17 community expecting to get 600 - 900 hours per year. It's probably closer to 400 to 500. The upgrade pace has also dropped drastically (since guys aren't getting the hours).

Overall, the deployment change of last summer has probably been a good thing for the community. Guys are home more often and the schedule is more predictable.

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by C17Driver:

It has helped a lot in the way that guys are home lots more. However, in some ways, it has now swung the other way. Don't come to the C-17 community expecting to get 600 - 900 hours per year. It's probably closer to 400 to 500. The upgrade pace has also dropped drastically (since guys aren't getting the hours).

Overall, the deployment change of last summer has probably been a good thing for the community. Guys are home more often and the schedule is more predictable.

How many hours did C-17 guys get before 9/11? If 400 to 500 is closer to that number then all these changes seem to have done what was intended. I think that getting the force back to a sustainable tempo that is closer to normal is a good thing even if upgrades take "longer" now.

Is that not the case?

[C17Driver]

How many hours did C-17 guys get before 9/11? If 400 to 500 is closer to that number then all these changes seem to have done what was intended. I think that getting the force back to a sustainable tempo that is closer to normal is a good thing even if upgrades take "longer" now.

Is that not the case?

You're right. It is getting back to the sustainable ops tempo. But you know how it works...the word filters down to the UPT studs and they hear they are going to get to fly 1000 hours per year and not do office work. Then they show up and it's not like that. They are flying maybe once every month and a half (operationally) and then they are being asked to do "volunteer" stuff around the squadron the rest of the time.

[ 06. December 2006, 13:59: Message edited by: C17Driver ]

[Guest Dunce]

So on a given month, how many times do you fly/flight hours do you get?

[scoobs]

How is this affecting the Guard/Reserve?

[C17Driver]

So on a given month, how many times do you fly/flight hours do you get?

In a given month, it depends (you should have expected that). If you fly an overseas mission, you might get between 40 to 60 hours. If you don't get on an overseas mission, it all depends on where you are at in your qualification level. Most new guys don't try to get on locals so they fly once every two weeks or so. If they really wanted too, they could probably fly once to twice per week depending on the number of training lines available, checkrides going on, upgrades taking place, etc.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Originally posted by scoobs:

How is this affecting the Guard/Reserve?

I'd say we're flying more. I talk to friends in AD squadrons, and I fly a ton more than they do - at least one stage a month, sometimes two.

Our stage length overall, however, has gone down - we do 7 to 10 day trips now instead of 14 day'ers. I've had numerous SRT busts, but usually not much more than 2 or 3 days.

Good news though is that we spend a lot less time at the deid. Before, it was almost guaranteed.

[Guest JimmyH]

I'm coming down the C-17 pipeline, too.. Where are the current locations the AD squadrons are deploying? I've heard Manas, the Deid, and Turkey. Did I hear wrong or miss any?

[zrooster99]

Most new guys don't try to get on locals so they fly once every two weeks or so. If they really wanted too, they could probably fly once to twice per week depending on the number of training lines available,

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right. So as a new Co, I have the opportunity to get on more flights if I'm proactive (depending on what else is going on, as you stated)? Any chance they'll try to upgrade me quicker as a late rater?

[CHS17]

Originally posted by zrooster99:

I just want to make sure I'm reading this right. So as a new Co, I have the opportunity to get on more flights if I'm proactive (depending on what else is going on, as you stated)? Any chance they'll try to upgrade me quicker as a late rater?

Yes, to a degree. There should be no reason that you could not have as many locals as you want, barring any other currency priority. Missions, on the other hand, will be harder to come by. Every Lt in the squadron will be harassing the scheduler to get on the road, you'll just have to wait in line w/ everyone else. As far as being fast-tracked, that is much more likely to happen w/ your squadron job than flying. You will probably get a position appropriate to your rank and years of service.

One last thought: the trips are fewer and farther between, but if you are going to CHS/TCM it really picks up when it comes time for a squadron to deploy. One squadron will get time off and one will still be on the road. Now you have two squadrons doing the mission of four. Like anything else it ebbs and it flows. Overall, being a C-17 pilot (or load) is a great job!

[Guest levei363]

For the 17 guys that are out there, we had our assignment night MWS briefings tonight and there were a few questions that came up that our IP's were unable to answer...I thought I'd throw these out there for our class....

1) Now that Travis and Hawaii are being stood up with Alaska coming online in the not too distant future, what roles (airdrop/airland/antarctic/nuke/spec-ops etc)...are those respective bases going to play in the grand scheme of things? For any Travis guys out there, there are quite a few slots to Cali in our drop so any info from you would be great.

2)A few wondered about the Antarctic mission at McChord...who typically flies it (experience levels etc..), how often, are there any special quals needed etc...?

3) For those who are airdrop qualified, what percentage would you say of your flying focuses around airdrop vs doing some of the other airland missions and trips...

Thanks for the info in advance guys...we have to turn in our forms tomorrow so a quick reply would be appreciated but we'll take any info we can get!

[C17Driver]

1) Now that Travis and Hawaii are being stood up with Alaska coming online in the not too distant future, what roles (airdrop/airland/antarctic/nuke/spec-ops etc)...are those respective bases going to play in the grand scheme of things? For any Travis guys out there, there are quite a few slots to Cali in our drop so any info from you would be great.

Hawaii has an airdrop role. We are being told that Elmendorf will also. Travis does not participate in the airdrop arena. All bases play a role in the airland mission. Operation DEEP FREEZE (Antarctic Mission) is owned at McChord and will probably continue for the forseeable future (due to crew and aircraft requirements). We won't talk about the "nuke" mission as this is not the appropriate forum. Charleston is the only base with SOLL II.

Hopefully some of the Travis guys will jump on to answer any specifics on those questions.

2)A few wondered about the Antarctic mission at McChord...who typically flies it (experience levels etc..), how often, are there any special quals needed etc...?

The DEEP FREEZE mission is normally reserved for experienced crew members (IP's) with at least 2 or more years left on station. On a case by case basis, other's do get to go. DEEP FREEZE does require a special qualification. The missions normally run from late October through the middle of March (summer time in the southern hemisphere).

I would not anticipate participating in a DEEP FREEZE mission in your first tour (at least not in the first 3 years), although it does happen on occassion.

3) For those who are airdrop qualified, what percentage would you say of your flying focuses around airdrop vs doing some of the other airland missions and trips...

It depends. I am AC Aidrop qualified and would say less than 50% of my time is spent with airdrop. However, as you increase your airdrop qualification, your locals will consist of mostly airdrop. (For example, very rarely do I fly an airland local training mission. There are so few AC airdrop qual'd pilots in my squadron that we are needed to fly the airdrop lines and JFEX lines). On the other hand, 95% or more of your overseas missions will be airland only. Very few guys (although the number increases weekly) have performed a combat airdrop in the C-17. The airdrop qual will keep you from flying as many overseas missions because we still have to meet any requests the army has at Pope (among other locations).

Overall, the Ops tempo in the C-17 has decreased drastically from a year or two years ago. The 2 EAS system has been great for that. Guys at Charleston and McChord can expect to "deploy" for 120 every other year. Most can expect to be TDY 150 to 180 every year with deployment years being a little higher (200 or so). We are being told that the smaller bases will start playing in the two EAS system (deploying), but I'll believe it when I see it.

Let me know if you have any other questions (or PM).

[ 18. December 2006, 21:01: Message edited by: C17Driver ]

[Shut up 'n color]

Are the deployment #s anymore or less depending on the base you get assigned to? Ie: Does McGuire deploy less than Charleston b/c Chucktown is considered one of the c17 super bases?

[CHS17]

Are the deployment #s anymore or less depending on the base you get assigned to? Ie: Does McGuire deploy less than Charleston b/c Chucktown is considered one of the c17 super bases?

Yes, it depends. Right now, just CHS & TCM are deployed, but McGuire is getting there first crack at the Deid as a squadron this fall. Don't know when Travis and Dover will play. Also don't know if Elmendorf or Hickam will EVER play, being PACAF. Expect one deployment every 16-18 months, give or take.

[Riddller]

So, on average, how many hours do the 'typical' new Herk Co's get per year right now if the 'typical' Barney Co's are getting 400-500?

If you jump on a ton of locals in the -17 community, does that restrict you from getting to go on the road when those trips come up? Basically, do they try to get all the Co's the same amount of flight time in a month, whether you get it from 2-3 locals a week or one long 8 day (or whatever) trip?

I don't have a problem doing the 'extra' jobs at the squadron, I did plenty when I was aircrew, but I also don't mind flying whenever I can, to include every $hit flight on the schedule.

I'm asking because I'm 2 years from graduating UPT and am keeping an open mind between my top 2 choices: -17's or -130's. I'll take any and all opinions and information I can!!

What do you think? Thanks!!

[CHS17]

Okay, let's try to answer a few questions. I'll speak to Charleston, but I bet McChord is very similar, and I'm an airland guy. You could, if you really wanted to, fly two locals a week. Locals are a rare commodity at CHS because we need airplanes to move stuff. The training fence can come down at any moment and TACC will take tails. Flying locals will not hurt your chances at trips, in fact, you could say just the opposite. Flying locals=current and qualified. Current bodies are needed to fill trips, especially short notice drop-down missions. As far as "$hit flight on the schedule" I'm sure the scheduler would love to fly you Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, and not very many of your bros will fight you for it. I can't speak for fighter guys, -130's, or helos, but we work 7 days a week because a lot of training gets done on Saturday night, both in the jet and the sim.

Now, trips. In my squadron right now I would say that CP/FP-types average about one trip a month because of the 2 EAS system. Our IP/EP's are flying their asses off because we have a lot of guys that need OCONUS rides and OME's (checkride to get AC cert) before we deploy this summer

Finally, other stuff. Charleston does airdrop and SOLL II. With that comes alert. We constantly have crews sitting alerts dedicated to the JCS to go anywhere, in a hurry. So just because you ain't flying doesn't mean you ain't working. There are a lot of different missions to be filled here, dare I say something for everyone. C-17's were my first choice out of pilot training and I'd do it again (I'd stop and think about C-21 to Ramstein after that rousing motivation in another thread )

Keep the questions coming (sts, I guess)

[Guest nunya]

So, on average, how many hours do the 'typical' new Herk Co's get per year right now if the 'typical' Barney Co's are getting 400-500?

At least that much once you start deploying. My last TDY, I flew 3 out of 4 months and got about 220. One crew was up around 300 in 4 months. I'll be going back for 120 more days this year, so that'll be 250+ additional hours. That's 500-600 just overseas. About 30/month while I'm home. So... short answer = a bit over 600 this year probably.

Edited March 5, 2007 by nunya

[Guest mjk5401]

Class 07-07 got the first 17s to Elmendorf in their drop. Does anyone know when tails are suppose to be there, what will be entailed of getting the newbys mission qualified while standing up a new squadron, how many hours everyone will get, will it be like Hickam, to many people, not enough jets, what are the major differences of being a 17 guy in PACEF vs AMC, etc. Debating on if I should put that as number one or McChord. Any and all help will be great. Thanks.

[biggie17]

mjk5401,

The last I heard they are going to have 8 tails total at Elmendorf. They are not getting brand new jets, but rather some "gently-used" models from Charleston & McChord (Maybe any CHS/TCM people can tell you which tails). The rumor is that they are getting 6 this summer and then 2 in the fall.

As far as the things entailed in standing up a new Squadron, it depends on how much has been done by the PIO, and how much of the infrastructure they are using from the Hercs, and how much they have to create. I heard on another forum that they were moving into some of the old Herc bldgs until a new bldg was done (anyone at Elmendorf right now have any intel on that).

PACAF vs. AMC, this would take up a good page, so here is the abbreviated version. There are good and bad things with being in PACAF vs. AMC. They are not used to Strat Air in PACAF (or airlift in general, they are structured around the fighter community), so you will have more protection from the usual TACC abuse (i.e. not usually Friday or Sat at 1830 drop downs, etc). However, since they are not used to airlift, you will have some heartache in dealing with AMD or PACAF or your own base wing (don't always understand the dynamics of going on a trip without your whole Sq with you).

Bottom line: if you want to fly more/deploy, go to CHS/TCM . If you want more quality of life/time with family/get your masters done for 3-4 years, go to Alaska. You will still get to fly a good amount, but I am guessing it would be less than the CHS/TCM and definitely less combat time.

Elmendorf may still get a chance to have a few crews deployed to the EAS, but it will be more like 1-2 crews at a time, probably not the entire Squadron.

In addition, you will be working with the Alaska Guard since they will be a C-17 associate unit, something currently unique to PACAF (as far as Guard associates in Strat Air, that is).

Hope that helps, congrats on almost being done with SUPT!

Biggie

[Guest northwest]

For C-17 peeps going to Travis:

I'm currently doing C-17 PIQ here at Altus, and heard that dudes inbound to Travis are getting personal calls to go to Elmendorf instead. There’s a rumor that some may soon be voluntold. Apparently, AFPC has overmanned Travis and severely undermanned Elmendorf. Anyone know anything about this?

-NW

[CHS17]

Apparently, AFPC has overmanned Travis and severely undermanned Elmendorf. Anyone know anything about this?

I haven't heard it in that context, but I wouldn't be surprised. The second call at CHS just went out "if you have 2 years TOS and want to go to PAED, come see the CC." Take that for what it's worth

[flyinap]

Hickam is great... Good amout of flying and you also have plenty of time for masters, family, surfing, etc........Plus every mission we fly here is pretty sweet....

[scoobs]

Anybody know what the trips are like out of March?

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

March is still getting spun up...however, I have seen their jets at both Ramstein and Incirlik. That being said, I'd suspect that they are running the same mission that the rest of the AFR folks are doing.

Possible C-17 bases...all inclusive

Charleston, McChord, McGuire, Altus (FTU), Dover, Travis, Elmendorf, Hickam, Mississippi ANG (Jackson), March, Long Beach....

You also have the possibility, although very slim and after you have a few years, to do exchange tours in Australia...future tours will possibly include a NATO stint at Ramstein, Canada, UK, or Denmark - all are still up in the air.

As far as getting extended...there is ALWAYS the chance to get extended a few days, but usually no more than 2-3 weeks. Our squadron is the next to go here in about 4 weeks...we already know that a few will be here for about 130 days, vs. 120. However, this doesn;t mean that come day 129 (119), that folks can get tagged for another week or two. Again, there is always the chance - but it seldom happens.

Why don't you elaborate a bit on what folks are saying as far as trying to deter you so we can shed some light. If they have never flown the plane, or havent been in the system since the 2 EAS concept, then they cannot speak intelligently. Mission for mission, deployment for deployment, I cannot think of anything better (having only flown the C-21 and C-17)...the ONLY other flying assignment that I would take out of UPT besides a C-17 is a C-21 back to Ramstein. No hesitation.