ACLU fighting for Muslim prisoner rights

[FallingOsh]

Link

The ACLU is suing the Department of Corrections and warden of Wyoming State Penitentiary because Muslims are having to skip meals to pray.

The lawsuit seeks for the inmates to be exempted from the rule because it forces them to choose between eating and practicing their religion.

So they have a choice. Copy. Why should they be exempt from any rules? I'll try that if I go to prison. 'My religion says I'm not allowed to be locked up. Can I go now?'

"If someone has started their prayer, unless they're willing to interrupt their prayer and leave at that moment, they forgo their meal because (the guards) won't go back and open their cell doors,"

I wish I had people delivering food to me 3 times a day. I bet their rooms even have a window.

"It's not unreasonable to ask for some extra time to finish their meals. They have a right to practice their religion, and the prison has been treating it as a privilege."

I have an idea that will allow you to keep all of your rights... DONT BREAK THE DAMN LAW AND GO TO PRISON

[Toro]

Your link doesn't work (you linked to a Baseops page).

It's bullshit at any rate. Muslims can and do adjust their prayer times if they are not in a location that allows them to pray at the designated time.

[Guest momann]

Muslim prayer times are set and should be adhered to unless unforeseen circumstances prevent that. In that case you're to make it up ASAP before the next prayer time or just before the last prayer of the day. I know these people are in prison but asking them to choose between their faith and meal is a little harsh. A little latitude (judgment on the side of the warden) would have gone a long way in the situation. I'm not advocating their case, but speak as a Christian who loves to eat as well. Every person is entitle to practice their faith while maintaining personal well being.

FWIW, if we can allow murders to have life sentences and criminals to live on our tab, why should there be some latitude in this situation? Or, should we hate all Muslim because some radical of the faith has caused and intends to cause us harm? That rational is ill placed. If not, then we’ve reanalyze our position on other religious fanatics/radicals.

Just my $0.02.

Peace, Mo.

[Guest MizzouNav]

Muslim prayer times are set and should be adhered to unless unforeseen circumstances prevent that. In that case you're to make it up ASAP before the next prayer time or just before the last prayer of the day. I know these people are in prison but asking them to choose between their faith and meal is a little harsh. A little latitude (judgment on the side of the warden) would have gone a long way in the situation. I'm not advocating their case, but speak as a Christian who loves to eat as well. Every person is entitle to practice their faith while maintaining personal well being.

FWIW, if we can allow murders to have life sentences and criminals to live on our tab, why should there be some latitude in this situation? Or, should we hate all Muslim because some radical of the faith has caused and intends to cause us harm? That rational is ill placed. If not, then we’ve reanalyze our position on other religious fanatics/radicals.

Just my $0.02.

Peace, Mo.

Jeez, why don't we let them vote too. They broke the law, they gave up their rights. How do we know they didn't convert to islam after they were in prison? Many people do just that. I say delay your prayer and eat, then go pray, just make sure your cell is locked before you start bending over.....

[Guest Joe]

Muslim prayer times are set and should be adhered to unless unforeseen circumstances prevent that. In that case you're to make it up ASAP before the next prayer time or just before the last prayer of the day. I know these people are in prison but asking them to choose between their faith and meal is a little harsh. A little latitude (judgment on the side of the warden) would have gone a long way in the situation. I'm not advocating their case, but speak as a Christian who loves to eat as well. Every person is entitle to practice their faith while maintaining personal well being.

FWIW, if we can allow murders to have life sentences and criminals to live on our tab, why should there be some latitude in this situation? Or, should we hate all Muslim because some radical of the faith has caused and intends to cause us harm? That rational is ill placed. If not, then we’ve reanalyze our position on other religious fanatics/radicals.

Just my $0.02.

Peace, Mo.

It's not just the prison incident. It's changing gym hours to accommodate muslim women at Harvard. Or listening to them say how evil the US is despite the fact they live here. I, as well as most people, are sick of their $hit. Let them stay in their shithole dusty armpit countries and kick the shit out of each other in their god's name. I know it's more complex, but oh well. Sorry if I offended anyone. Just kidding, no I'm not.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Joe

[Guest momann]

I say delay your prayer and eat, then go pray, just make sure your cell is locked before you start bending over.....

Classic, MizzouuNav, Classic!!

[Guest momann]

It's not just the prison incident. It's changing gym hours to accommodate muslim women at Harvard. Or listening to them say how evil the US is despite the fact they live here. I, as well as most people, are sick of their $hit. Let them stay in their shithole dusty armpit countries and kick the shit out of each other in their god's name. I know it's more complex, but oh well. Sorry if I offended anyone. Just kidding, no I'm not.

Joe, I agree with you that if they dislike our country, they should just stay in theirs, just like I'll like to see any citizen that speak ill of this Great Country to either help make it better (than quibble) or get the F@$K out. But that doesn't mean that we should become like them. We're better than that and that's in part the reason why the US is great and will continue to, if we don't loose ourselves. However, your point is well taken.

Peace.

Mo.

EDIT: Spelling

Edited April 4, 2008 by momann

[Guest Joe]

Joe, I agree with you that if they dislike our country, they should just stay in theirs, just like I'll like to see any citizen that speak ill of this Great Country to either help make it better (than quibble) or get the F@$K out. But that doesn't mean that we should become like them. We're better than that and that's in part the reason why the US is great and will continue to, if we don't loose ourselves. However, your point is well taken.

Peace.

Mo.

EDIT: Spelling

Exactly. But our political correctness is over the top. We try WAY too hard to make these aholes happy. It's too the point where we surrender our rights to cater to these clowns needs (read Harvard). It's annoying, and it probably won't quit.

[Guest Joe]

Harvard is a private institution. What rights, may I ask, do you as a citizen have in regards to the use of Harvard's facilities? I'd tell you to vote with your dollar and not attend Harvard in the first place, but I'm already doubting that your attendance there has ever been a possibility.

It's still an AMERICAN institution. Gearpig seemed to have no problem understanding my point. (Thanks for the elaboration Gearpig...I agree with everything you said.) And for the record, you're right...I am not smart enough for Harvard. You win!!!!!!

[Guest MizzouNav]

Harvard is a private institution. What rights, may I ask, do you as a citizen have in regards to the use of Harvard's facilities? I'd tell you to vote with your dollar and not attend Harvard in the first place, but I'm already doubting that your attendance there has ever been a possibility.

I'd bet you some that Harvard is a land grant school..... thus not totally private. I bet they get federal student aid money too.

Hey swingin' where'd you go to school? I am just a state school kid i knew the above.

[Guest MizzouNav]

got on the land grant, just figured since they have ROTC. But they do get federal money, do they not?

either way, PC crap is ruining our country. If you want to live in america, assimilate to our culture or at least try to fit your culture into ours, ot the other way around.

If your religion keeps you from doing something, thats not the governmens fault, its your fault for picking that belief system. I don't see any arab countries ringing church bells on sunday for christians anytime soon, and i don't see america not letting church bells ring because it might wake up some athiest either.

[Guest Joe]

Lighten up Francis, nobody's throwing insults.

I believe that prisoners should not be forced to chose between either meals or the practicing of their religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, or whatever else. In my mind all that is left to debate is whether this is happening or not.

The issue is that these inmates are given 20 minutes from the time the tray is placed in their cell to finish the meal, and some are claiming that if they have already started prayer then they have to either disrupt their prayers or risk busting the 20 minutes. Also at issue is receiving a meal during a fast that ends at sundown, before sundown.

Whether or not religion is being used to game the system is something the prison staff and the warden need to decide and of course we'd have no way of knowing that. I'm just tired of the fear-mongering alarmists who whine on about how their civil liberties are being trampled because of a dude who wants to finish his tater tots after, and not during his prayers.

Would you agree that you forfeit certain rights when you are sentenced to prison for BREAKING THE LAW??!?!?! Seriously...eat your fuking tots when everyone else does. If your religion is that important to you, pray in your cell before or after dinner. If we let them open this door, where does it stop.

[Guest Joe]

That has nothing to do with it. Nowhere in the constitution is the issue of Harvard's gym policy mentioned. You're that same guy who floods my inbox with "Obama is a Mulsim, he swore into the Senate on the Koran" spam, aren't you?

No, I wouldn't. What's your problem man? You don't like my opinion so you try to insult? What do you do that makes you so much better?? Just curious.

[Guest Joe]

That's all.

"We" and "them?" No, that's not the problem. You're the problem. Too freaking sensitive. Yea, THEM. I said it. The jerk Muslims that think we should bend to their ways. THEM. Fuk THEM. Sorry you have a problem with that. You're sounding more like THEM in every post you make.

Edited to remove rude comments...

Edited April 5, 2008 by Joe

[Guest Joe]

No, I said I believed that prisoners should not be forced to choose, without respect to religion whatsoever. I further went on to say that it's debatable whether the ACLU and the Muslims have a valid case.

Apparently you've seen the lawsuit, I haven't. I don't know the specifics. I'm also not sure it requires hiring extra cooks to leave a tray in a dude's cell for longer than 20 minutes. I will defer to your demonstrated experience with institutional culinary logistics though, and believe you that there is in fact a correlation between the number of paid cooks and the length of time prisoners are afforded for meals. You are right, there should be no more cooks hired because of this.

Edited to remove rude comment...

Edited April 5, 2008 by Joe

[Mambo]

Wow...talk about a thread going downhill fast!

[Guest Joe]

good point mambo, i'll remove my jerk-ish comments... imagine that, a discussion about muslims starts an argument on here!!!

[budderbar]

got on the land grant, just figured since they have ROTC. But they do get federal money, do they not?

Harvard does not have ROTC. Students must do the cross-town enrollment thing with MIT. They have an ROTC club though!

Harvard does not allow ROTC on campus because of the Military discrimination against gays blah blah blah.

Nevertheless, they sure as shit gobble up any federal funding the Gov will give. With their 35+ billion dollar endowment, they definitely do not need federal funding.

Peace

[AOF_ATC]

"We" and "them?" No, that's not the problem. You're the problem. Too freaking sensitive. Yea, THEM. I said it. The jerk Muslims that think we should bend to their ways. THEM. Fuk THEM. Sorry you have a problem with that. You're sounding more like THEM in every post you make.

Edited to remove rude comments...

This is a bit much. What needs to be determined is whether or not the Muslim prisoners are using their religion to 'game' the system. If this is the case, tough shit. If it is possible for them to move their prayer times and they choose not to, tough shit. But last time I checked we still lived in a free nation and that includes religion. So I don't agree with the attitude of us against "those jerk Muslims". Talk about stereotyping. I have friends who practice the Muslim faith and are good people.

Perhaps you were just referring to people in general who try to bend the system around their needs. If that is the case I agree with you but you shouldn't have said it any less than what sounds like a hillbilly statement of 'I'm a Christian so ###### everyone else who doesn't think exactly like me'

Edited April 5, 2008 by rotc_pilot

[Guest Joe]

This is a bit much. What needs to be determined is whether or not the Muslim prisoners are using their religion to 'game' the system. If this is the case, tough shit. If it is possible for them to move their prayer times and they choose not to, tough shit. But last time I checked we still lived in a free nation and that includes religion. So I don't agree with the attitude of us against "those jerk Muslims". Talk about stereotyping. I have friends who practice the Muslim faith and are good people.

Perhaps you were just referring to people in general who try to bend the system around their needs. If that is the case I agree with you but you shouldn't have said it any less than what sounds like a hillbilly statement of 'I'm a Christian so ###### everyone else who doesn't think exactly like me'

Rotc pilot, the first sentence in your second paragraph is correct. I would make the same argument if it was a group of Christians who wanted to move their prayer time around. Of course, that would not get any publicity.

Do I have a stereotypical view of muslims? Yea, I do. And I don't really have a problem with it. Too much killing in the name of allah, car bombs, IED's, stoneings, beheadings, anti-western rhetoric, anti-jewish rhetoric, and allah akbars prior to killing someone (lots coming from muslims living comfortably in the west) for my taste.

I'm glad you have muslim friends. I will give you one gold star per muslim friend that you have if we cross paths.

Bottom line: I think these clowns can pray around their meal time.

[AOF_ATC]

I'm glad you have muslim friends. I will give you one gold star per muslim friend that you have if we cross paths.

Bottom line: I think these clowns can pray around their meal time.

I'll take the gold stars.

Bottom line: I agree they can pray around their meal time.

[Guest MizzouNav]

I think you forgot THEY ARE IN PRISON!!! That means they broke the law and gave up many rights every american has, like the freedom to leave the PRISON, vote and have sex with women.

you don't go to PRISON unless you did something bad, which menas the chance you get caught and lose your rights to you is worth doing whatever you did. I think they strip search you and make you do other things that are against normal american rights. Its not a resort, its PRISON. PRISON.

[Guest momann]

I think you forgot THEY ARE IN PRISON!!! That means they broke the law and gave up many rights every american (please CAPITALIZE) has, like the freedom to leave the PRISON, vote and have sex with women.

you don't go to PRISON unless you did something bad, which menas (spelled MEANS) the chance you get caught and lose your rights to you is worth doing whatever you did. I think they strip search you and make you do other things that are against normal american rights. Its not a resort, its PRISON. PRISON.

NizzouNav, you’re completely right. However, even prisoners have some rights, or there won't be human rights groups requesting or mandating better treatment and facilities for these douche bags and our government succumbing to such outrageous demands or providing freely at our expense. Anyways, although most for their right are forfeited, they still retain the right to religion and preservation (that's if inmate isn't on death roll and all appeal channels have been exhausted. The question remains, are these prisoners playing the system or is their situation reasonable and justifiable? And the answer has nothing to do with you and I disliking them - Muslims, but more likely, is the treatment fair and equitable.

Peace,

Mo.

Edited April 8, 2008 by momann

[FallingOsh]

NizzouNav, you’re completely right. However, even prisoners some have rights,...Anyways, although most for their right are forfeited, they still retain the right to religion and preservation....is the treatment fair and equitable.

They have every right to practice their religion. Nobody said they couldn't. Making demands is completely rediculous.

'We want to practice our own religion on our own schedule while locked up'

'Fine. Go for it.'

'Ok, now we want the prison system to alter it's schedule and policies to fit ours.'

'You're in prison. Shut up and eat your free meal.'

[Vandal]

Last I checked prison was to punish those who broke the law. It is not supposed to be a resort but a 6 by 8 cell with concrete and bars. Personally I think our country gives prisoners too many rights. 3 hot meals a day, TV, time to exercise, a library, access to mail and the internet. Shit, that is better than some tax-paying Americans have it. If the rag-heads in jail want to pray, let them but don't treat them specially for being muslim. They can eat with the rest of the swine that are behind bars. I have my own thoughts on how prisons should be run, I like the Maricopa County Sheriff's idea of sticking them in the desert in pink and making them work. Or make 'em eat MREs, no TV, no library, no mail and solitary for all.