Shaw pilot charged with battery/intent to kill for pushing someone at a bar!

[Coasta]

This country needs to toughen up and let the NHL handle shit like this. He'll go to the box for 2 minutes and feel shame. Then he'll get set free. If he actually threw a punch, maybe 5 minutes.

As far as Big Blue goes, that will depend on whether his CC is checking boxes all the way to the top or if he's an actual leader and protects his troops. I had a LM get into an altercation because his roomate was involved in a 1 v 4. After he smashed a pint glass over a dude's head, it became a 2 v 3--a fairly survivable situation. The beauty of the situation (I was actually at the bar but was busy scoping tail) is that when the CC had all of the info he needed, he asked me, "So who won?" I simply said, "Well boss, they went away in ambulances, we went away in cop cars." The douche nozzle who got his head cracked open, eventually dropped the charges and my LM was vindicated of any wrong doing. The LM was practically on the "wingman" posters that were all over the bases.

BL: Take care of your family and friends and you'll be just fine.

Best of luck to the guy! Getting punished for doing the right thing (yes, even if it's against the law) just blows.

[Guest LittleMan]

Out of interest, will the AF be inclined to allow this guy to carry on working in the squadron while the legal process gets underway?

That's kinda hard to do (let him fly) when the dude's in jail. Even after he gets out on bail, I'm sure there is some sort rule somewhere that would place him on temporary leave (w/o pay) during an impending felony trial. And if it is not an AF rule, it is probably a DoD rule related to his TS clearance. I'd bet a lot of money that anyone with a TS is not allowed to work in any capacity where using that clearance would be necessary (whether military of civilian contractor) while there is possibility of a felony conviction (especially when the word 'murder' is being thrown around). Just my two cents... I'm too lazy to actually go around digging to find out if all of the above is based on truth or not!

Edited May 22, 2008 by LittleMan

[F-15E WSO]

I think the real question is do you really want this guy flying right now? He has enough distractions as does his squadron.

[Guest GCL]

attempted murder is simply absurd and any self-respecting lawyer would get this dropped quite quickly

As for the assault and battery, he would need to convince the jury that he pushed this guy because he was sexually harassing his wife/along with other women. He told the "victim" to stop and an altercation occurred. He pushed the victim with an open hand in order to get his point across and the idiot fell back and slammed his head. Is standing up and protecting your wife against a sexual creep going to stand with a jury (containing women) who can put themselves in the pilots shoes and say "man i would do that too". He needs a good lawyer

I know i would, sometimes people need a good old Kentucky ass whoopin' haha

[El Guapo]

Chris is good $hit. I hope big blue has his back but I would bet the farm they will hang him out to dry. Hopefully the guy he roughed up won't take him for everything he's worth. Something like this can pretty much happen to anyone any given night of the week. Some prick rich kid with a popped collar can't hold his liquor and starts fukin with the girls and needs to be showed the door. What a shame.

[Guest ATB]

From the South Carolina Code of Laws....

https://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t16c003.htm

SECTION 16-3-620. Assault and battery with intent to kill.

The crime of assault and battery with intent to kill shall be a felony in this State and any person convicted of such crime shall be punished by imprisonment not to exceed twenty years.

All he needs is a jury of married folks and vets, which we have a lot of down here, and I'm sure he'll be able to get the charges reduced or get aquitted. I say fight it. I would've done the same thing if some asshole was touching my wife and wouldn't stop.

[LJDRVR]

LJ, go choke yourself. By your definition every one of us should be in prison for attempted murder. I am sure you have pushed someone before, as has everyone else here. Get off your high horse and join the rest of us in reality.

Unless he took the time with his (maybe) alcohol impaired brain to play all the angles and detemine exactly how hard to push the douche (who should have had his ass beat) to get him to hurt his head to the point of needing surgery, he didn't have a complete disregard for human life. "In criminal law, attempted murder is the crime of more than merely preparing to commit murder and at the same time having a specific intention to kill." I am sure he said to himself, I am going to kill by open hand pushing this guy! Give me a break.

Your attitude is a great example of whats wrong with this country. I see nothing wrong with defending a woman, man or anyone else against being disrepected in such a way. Its bad how it turned out and sure some charges should be filed, but this was no brawl or premeditated act. Just another example of why you should be very careful when out at the bars.

By the same token, the guys dad should sue the pilot for harm, and every single female should sue the ashole who couldn't keep his hands to himself for sexcual harassment too right? Lawsuits and prison for everyone, its the American way! (sarcasm)

Go choke myself? No thanks.

Such anger and disgust! Let's take a look at what I originally posted and examine your poor reading comprehension.

Originally posted by LJDRVR:

The attempted murder charge won't likely stick, but this moron is going to spend some time in jail with a felony conviction. You cannot go around assaulting people so badly they end up in the OR and leave the scene on top of it.

What a stupid way to lose your freedom and Air Force career. He's lucky the guy survived.

I claimed the attempted the attempted murder charge wouldn't stick. a sentiment it appears most folks agree with, my guess is yourself included.

I also posited that he would likely spend some time in jail for a felony conviction.

(I also called him a moron, more on that in a minute.)

I'm no lawyer and didn't stay in the Holiday Inn Express last night, but it would seem to me if you get intoxicated at a bar and involve yourself in a physical altercation to a degree that you opponet ends up in surgery, without self-denfense being involved, you're probably going to spend some time behind bars. Here's the part folks seem to be up in arms over - you should.

I said what a stupid way to lose your freedom and Air Force career.

You disagree?

I said he's lucky the guy survived.

Again, you disagree?

So why are you upset with me? For calling the guy a moron? For not abiding by the maxim of innocent until proven guilty?

I spoke my mind and I stand by everything I wrote in those sentences. You can read into it whatever you want if it makes you feel better. One cannot go around shoving, hitting or otherwise assaulting others, unless somebody is in danger of bodily harm from the victim. If that was the case here, I doubt the police would have charged him as quickly as they did, with the crime they stipulated. We can sit here and point fingers at the civilian justice system, but my experience is that system is predisposed towards providing military offenders with much more wiggle room than civilians.

You can assault somebody for "disrespecting" another if you like, hell if it was my wife our daughter, I would not act with a clear mind. But if you do take the law into your own hands, you'd better be prepared to face the consequences of your actions.

My attitude is a great example of what's wrong with this country? You lack the reading comprehension to even begin to understand what my attitude is, but thank you nontheless for your thoughts.

LJDRVR

[Toro]

Sexual assault will put him on the sex offender list, That would make a great bargaining tool.

Yup. That's the stink I would raise if I was the "attempted murderer" in question, right after I got myself the most outspoken attorney in Sumter.

I bet the "victim" and his daddy would reconsider.

[SocialD]

What kind of D-Bag father does this dude have. Hell if my dad found out I was going around grabbing girls like that, he would have put me in a hospital!

To bad this crap didn't happen back where I grew up. That place is so back woods, the cops would agree with most of us and look the other way. Don't go around doing that $hit and this wont happen. I'm sure we have all seen his type, that rich kid who doesn't know the value of anything. The same ones who do whatever they want and think there are no consequences because "daddy" will bail him out. I have no sympathy for this kid.

[Guest ASUcadet]

attempted murder is simply absurd and any self-respecting lawyer would get this dropped quite quickly

As for the assault and battery, he would need to convince the jury that he pushed this guy because he was sexually harassing his wife/along with other women. He told the "victim" to stop and an altercation occurred. He pushed the victim with an open hand in order to get his point across and the idiot fell back and slammed his head. Is standing up and protecting your wife against a sexual creep going to stand with a jury (containing women) who can put themselves in the pilots shoes and say "man i would do that too". He needs a good lawyer

I know i would, sometimes people need a good old Kentucky ass whoopin' haha

I worked at the County Attorney's Office last summer, filing felony cases. The job was like Office Space, but I did get a glimpse of the legal system. It's likely that the cops charged him with attempted murder because they know that whatever they charge him with will get dropped to a lesser sentence and they want something to 'stick.' So, if they tagged him with attempted murder, they know that it's more likely he'll get sentenced with a felony, whereas if they charged him with assault, he'd probably walk away with a misdemeanor and some community service. Cops do this all the time. In fact, out of all the case files I read (at least 1000), the majority ended up with sentences that were far less severe than their original charge. Now throw in the rich daddy, McFelcher Jr, who probably told the cops that he wants to press every charge possible, and small-town politics, and you can see why he got charged with attempted murder. So, the good news is that there's no way in hell he'll get convicted of attempted murder. The bad news is that it will be much harder for him to walk away without a felony unless said a$$hole drops the charges.

[AEWingsMN]

This country needs to toughen up and let the NHL handle shit like this. He'll go to the box for 2 minutes and feel shame. Then he'll get set free. If he actually threw a punch, maybe 5 minutes.

As far as Big Blue goes, that will depend on whether his CC is checking boxes all the way to the top or if he's an actual leader and protects his troops. I had a LM get into an altercation because his roomate was involved in a 1 v 4. After he smashed a pint glass over a dude's head, it became a 2 v 3--a fairly survivable situation. The beauty of the situation (I was actually at the bar but was busy scoping tail) is that when the CC had all of the info he needed, he asked me, "So who won?" I simply said, "Well boss, they went away in ambulances, we went away in cop cars." The douche nozzle who got his head cracked open, eventually dropped the charges and my LM was vindicated of any wrong doing. The LM was practically on the "wingman" posters that were all over the bases.

BL: Take care of your family and friends and you'll be just fine.

Best of luck to the guy! Getting punished for doing the right thing (yes, even if it's against the law) just blows.

definitely agree on the NHL quote...

As for part 2, I'm not quite understanding how the pint over a guys head turns a 1v4 into a 2v3.... did the guy who got hit in the head pop back up and forget what side he was on?

Personally.... I don't think intent for murder is a reasonable charge at all.... if the guy was in such critical condition, and the pilot's intent was murder, probably wouldn't have taken much more effort to finish the job, which he clearly didn't. I don't see how you can call it intent for murder if he has the guy completely incapacitated, then walks away... (unless witnesses saw something which they believed was intent.... and then scared him off)...

I also would like to say I completely oppose to the franchise's post... I can stand when guys can't find the limit... go to the club, have a good time, a lot of girls will let you get away with a lot, others won't.... don't push to hard when a girl says no, just move on, or you deserve what you get... for all we know (and a lot of facts are missing), the pilot could have prevented a worse crime... obviously this creep wasn't stopping at the line, and needed to be shown it... and alcohol is no excuse, you should do your best to find the line there too...

I am all for equal rights, but that doesn't mean we have to ditch (in this case punish) chivalry... but again, the pilot (again depending on the facts) probably crossed some lines too

Edited May 23, 2008 by AEWingsMN

[Mike Honcho]

I just do not get this self-entitled, respect no-one, everybody owes me something generation -- or the pansy-assed-limp-wrists that indirectly advocate or condone their conduct with phrases like, "You can't just go around pushing people."

Oh, you mean like:

I spoke my mind and I stand by everything I wrote in those sentences. You can read into it whatever you want if it makes you feel better. One cannot go around shoving, hitting or otherwise assaulting others, unless somebody is in danger of bodily harm from the victim. If that was the case here, I doubt the police would have charged him as quickly as they did, with the crime they stipulated.

because yeah, the dude needed to at the very least be shoved, hit, or assaulted. If you feel differently, I must in all respect ask if you have said wife or daughter.

[Guest wildblue]

For you guys that know him/his family:

Any way to make donations to his legal defense fund?

(Won't be much, but I'll give what I can.)

[Guest RokStar36]

For you guys that know him/his family:

Any way to make donations to his legal defense fund?

(Won't be much, but I'll give what I can.)

All,

Stand-by for amplifying comm. on that issue. Some smart people are working out the legal issues right now regarding that issue. Once something is set up in a legit fashion there will be more info for those that are interested. For now, feel free to PM if you feel personally inclined to help out.

Thanks for your interest in backing a bro up.

[Guest Mike Brogan]

The thing that struck me the most about this case was the ridiculous nature of the charges. If this pilot wanted to kill the douche, I doubt he would have given the guy an open handed shove and walked away. Not only was the intent to kill clearly not present; I think it's pretty clear that the pilot didn't even intend to inflict serious injury. It's not like the pilot stood there and waled on that douche until his face was an unrecognizable pulp; all he did was push the guy. The story clearly said that the push caused the guy to stumble off the curb and which caused him to hit his head on a parked car. The severity of the injuries that resulted from that was clearly accidental, and probably not known to the pilot until later when the police talked to him. I'm not saying he can't be held liable for what happened, but trying to slap felony charges on the guy for that goes a bit too far IMO.

If some asshat groped my wife in a bar, there's a good chance I'd do more than just push the douchebag, especially if I had a couple drinks in me. I guess if that ever comes up, I'll make sure there aren't any parked cars for him to hit his head on...

Edited May 23, 2008 by Mike Brogan

[Guest wildblue]

All,

Stand-by for amplifying comm. on that issue. Some smart people are working out the legal issues right now regarding that issue. Once something is set up in a legit fashion there will be more info for those that are interested. For now, feel free to PM if you feel personally inclined to help out.

Thanks for your interest in backing a bro up.

Thanks for the info. I'll wait until something is setup (unless there is some sort of urgent need). It would probably be easiest for all involved.

[B*D*A]

Wait, I've heard this one before!

In all seriousness, what a load of shlt! Quick legal question, wouldn't it be the DA deciding the charges not the actual cops? If so, some ass clown lawyer could be trying to make a name for himself. Taking down a fighter pilot could be a nice plaque for his office.

[M2]

Out of interest, will the AF be inclined to allow this guy to carry on working in the squadron while the legal process gets underway? Would that be a decision made at squadron, wing or higher level?

Steve

Considering that our justice system was adopted from yours, you should know that he is innocent until proven guilty...

Cheers! M2

[RangerMateo]

Is it trumped up?

You're kidding right? It's just typical politics. Compare that to the two dudes that no kidding slugged a guy and knifed another one here in Enid a few weeks back and the cops had everyone sign "Will not prosecute" paperwork when they found out that the two dudes were local firefighters. They pulled a FVCKING KNIFE and put a guy in the ER on purpose...I would call that intent to kill. Not pushing someone because they have no respect for rules/courtesy most likely because they were brought up that way by their big shot daddy.

Also, my understanding of UCMJ is that they so much believe that you are innocent until guilty that they won't hold you unless you are an immediate threat...hence the Marine getting away to Mexico...

Edited May 24, 2008 by RangerMateo

[BONE WSO]

"As for part 2, I'm not quite understanding how the pint over a guys head turns a 1v4 into a 2v3.... did the guy who got hit in the head pop back up and forget what side he was on?"

Friend helps his buddy that turns 1v4 into 2v4. Then friend hits bad guy with a pint, subtract 1 bad guy, this leaves 3 bad guys, hence 2v3.

[AEWingsMN]

"As for part 2, I'm not quite understanding how the pint over a guys head turns a 1v4 into a 2v3.... did the guy who got hit in the head pop back up and forget what side he was on?"

Friend helps his buddy that turns 1v4 into 2v4. Then friend hits bad guy with a pint, subtract 1 bad guy, this leaves 3 bad guys, hence 2v3.

ahh... i've been duped by the pronoun "he"... I see my error in thinking, didn't realize the 2 to start with...

[Guest Jpilot]

Chris is good $hit. I hope big blue has his back but I would bet the farm they will hang him out to dry. Hopefully the guy he roughed up won't take him for everything he's worth. Something like this can pretty much happen to anyone any given night of the week. Some prick rich kid with a popped collar can't hold his liquor and starts fukin with the girls and needs to be showed the door. What a shame.

Agreed. That would be a refreshing suprise, but Big Blue standing up for the dude probably won't happen. Simliar scenario went down 3 weeks ago (minus the sexual harrassment bit), and as soon as we talked to the leadership, all we were told was how "bad of a wingman" we were and reprimanded. It's sad that backing a bro up will get you in more trouble than keeping your mouth shut and letting the dude go it alone. Another glorious example of AF leadership...

Good luck to the guy, and if we get some way to help him out, let me know-

Jp

[Guest tapeworm]

If I understand the story, I hope to God that this somehow ends up working out with no adverse effects on Tarado (assuming he's a good dude). Some piece of sh1t is feeling up women at a bar, is asked to stop, doesn't and gets pushed? He should have gotten a f'ing punch in the face. I can't believe there isn't anything but utter frustration on here out of sympathy for this viper dude. If you let some young, drunk, rich SOB grope your wife and don't get your ass kicked doing everything you can to stop it then you have zero place as a figher pilot. Holy mother of God, let Shaw leadership squash this bullsh1t w/ the city of Columbia.

Edited to add police report: https://wistv.images.worldnow.com/images/in...nt%20report.pdf

Edited May 25, 2008 by tapeworm

[Skitzo]

This is just another reason why you should stay at home and get drunk. F-ing retarded. Damned if you do an damned if you don't. I'd like to get this crap all over Hannity and see the outrage from the public.

[JS]

Lesson to be learned - if you get into a bar fight, don't hang around and wait for the cops to arrest you, the rich kids dad to stir up murder charges, and a political district attorney to go along with it.

A veteran bar-fighting friend from home once told me that you should "kick ass quickly and then disappear quickly."

Or, you can reference what the great Rainman A-10 once said about the war on terrorism:

"It's like a bar fight...

Make sure all your bros know the plan before you go in and keep track of everyone once you're in the bar. Once the fight starts, rejoin your crew and start swinging and moving toward the rear exit (where you should've parked your car). Hit anyone you didn't walk into the bar with as hard as you can and keep moving towards the door. Don't survey the damage, just keep swinging and moving. You need to be in your car and out of the parking lot before the cops show up, just like you planned before you went in. If done properly, you can be ordering your next round at the next bar before the cops have finished breaking up the last fight.

Easy."

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...2117&st=100

Only I would argue that you should probably not be found in another bar after a fight, as this case at Shaw clearly demonstrates.