?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[ThreeHoler]

I would think so. They could still send you but the ADSC would be limited to time remaining.

[ImNotARobot]

You are referring to a note in the ADSC reg which was discretely removed and published with zero heads up to Sq/CCs and crewdogs, that’s why this all started.

The clause that protected all guys/gals coming off a staff assignment to retrain back into their airframe.

The Bobs “fixed the glitch”.

[ThreeHoler]

But based on the answers the MAF Assignments guys (who were blindsided by this) got so far though Big Blue wants their “return on investment.”

[FLEA]

So how can they justify that an in house upgrade is valued the same as an IQT syllabus?  The whole point of in house is to save the Air Force money. But not to save pilots time I see. 

[Motofalcon]

It's not about "return on investment", it's about keeping people forever. If it was ROI, then you would owe a lot more time for the 8-month/69-sortie B course than you would for a 6-week/12-sortie T-X requal course, which would be more than you'd owe for a 2-ride post-DNIF in house requal.

This is just gonna force people's hands into either 7-day opting earlier than they wanted or being stuck forever. 

[Jaded]

So can you now 3 day opt all 365 deployments within 4 years of your ADSC, since the return requal will trigger this new ADSC which will put you beyond your UPT commitment? 

[ImNotARobot]

This is just gonna force people's hands into either 7-day opting earlier than they wanted or being stuck forever. 

That is the most succinct impact. And those early in career 7-dayers will be non-current.

And the regionals rejoiced. That party will be short lived as well, since they will be more qualified for the regional job than those conducting the regional interview. A touch and go back to currency, then move on.

So what did this clause removal really accomplish? Shortened the kill chain decision matrix for 7-day opting. Neat job with that loophole Big Blue...now staffers simply won’t come back to the squadron. EVER.

[FLEA]

On the bright side I learned recently NATO AWACS has it's own school house and you cannot be forced to take an ADSC there in any phase of training because NATO pays for your training, not the USAF. I wonder if the same situation exist elsewhere? 

 

[Guardian]

So can you now 3 day opt all 365 deployments within 4 years of your ADSC, since the return requal will trigger this new ADSC which will put you beyond your UPT commitment? 

Wow. Love the logic. Makes sense to me. Goldfien didn’t count on that glitch.

[Homestar]

45 minutes ago, Jaded said:

So can you now 3 day opt all 365 deployments within 4 years of your ADSC, since the return requal will trigger this new ADSC which will put you beyond your UPT commitment? 

Or you could decline training when you return and finish out your UPT commitment as the Snacko.

[MDDieselPilot]

I love how the rules of poker can change mid-hand.

This is certainly changing my decision matrix on going back to flying next summer with 1 year of UPT ADSC left.  If I decline a PCS, sit in place for an extra year I'll have been out of a jet for 4 years.  However, with a solid flying record and ATP in hand, I think/hope a regional will let me buy them a drink while I wait for an interview.

[SocialD]

58 minutes ago, MDDieselPilot said:

I love how the rules of poker can change mid-hand.

This is certainly changing my decision matrix on going back to flying next summer with 1 year of UPT ADSC left.  If I decline a PCS, sit in place for an extra year I'll have been out of a jet for 4 years.  However, with a solid flying record and ATP in hand, I think/hope a regional will let me buy them a drink while I wait for an interview.

Some of the regionals will likely pick you up without an interview.  Depending on your previous quals, chances are you'll spend less than a year at one before being picked up at a major/cargo carrier.  I was not out of the cockpit, but the majors weren't hiring yet and I needed total time...going to the regional is one of the best things I've ever done.  Best of luck!

Not sure if it's related but in the last two days, I had a few of my AD buddies (who I thought wouldn't get out) reach out to me about the ANG/Airlines.  Sounds like this change to the AFI is making the rounds pretty quickly.  

Edited August 1, 2018 by SocialD

[Guardian]

Weird. And who is the CSAF? Oh that’s right. Fingers Goldfien.

[di1630]

Weird. And who is the CSAF? Oh that’s right. Fingers Goldfien.

I think A1 severely screwed the pooch here. A lot of people were caught off guard including AFPC dudes. I doubt Fingers read the doc line by line. At some point you gotta trust that you’re leaders working for you understand there is a retention issue and can make decent decisions to help the problem....that didn’t happen here.

[MDDieselPilot]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

I think A1 severely screwed the pooch here. A lot of people were caught off guard including AFPC dudes. I doubt Fingers read the doc line by line. At some point you gotta trust that you’re leaders working for you understand there is a retention issue and can make decent decisions to help the problem....that didn’t happen here.

Hell, on the FB MAF assignment/mentoring page, AMC/A1 said they weren't coord'd on the revision.  If true, that is beyond f'd up. 

[matmacwc]

9 hours ago, baileynme said:

 

 

You are referring to a note in the ADSC reg which was discretely removed and published with zero heads up to Sq/CCs and crewdogs, that’s why this all started.

 

 

No, I'm not.

[Guardian]

I think A1 severely screwed the pooch here. A lot of people were caught off guard including AFPC dudes. I doubt Fingers read the doc line by line. At some point you gotta trust that you’re leaders working for you understand there is a retention issue and can make decent decisions to help the problem....that didn’t happen here.

Let’s see if fingers rolls in and if he does which side he is on. What’s your money on?

[DirtyFlightSuit]

My money is on absolutely no action.  Or perhaps even better defense of the change as some how "better"

[Azimuth]

5 hours ago, Guardian said:

Weird. And who is the CSAF? Oh that’s right. Fingers Goldfien.

Why the personal hate towards Fingers? 

[ThreeHoler]

Why the personal hate towards Fingers? 

Fingers ed his mom?

[tunes]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:55 PM, pcola said:

You guys are crazy. No way you get an ADSC for in-house, CC directed requals. AFPC can’t even track that level of training. I’m pretty sure the reg is referring to formal ETCA courses that are conducted in the unit.

So I can just say Pcola said it, so i cant get an adsc from it.

[tunes]

On 7/31/2018 at 4:31 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

 

Sling Blade...I'm a second assignment RPA dude with 2.5 years left on my sentence. I've heavily pondered options including returning to white jets, guard/reserve, RPA contractings(plus traditional guard/reserve) and CFI to get me from 350 hours to 750 for R-ATP mins. I reached the same conclusion tunes did...

With that being said, right now I'm really hoping to return to teach in T-6s. I had a blast flying them in UPT and I legitimately enjoy teaching, but my calculus also figured that my best path to seniority at a major ASAP is starting to log more flight hours (however I can) while I'm still active duty. I'm obviously going to incur an additional 1-1.5 years if the T-6 gig happens, but I'm also going to hopefully have an additional 800-1000 hours in the next 2.5 years ahead of what I would have if I waited. It probably won't eliminate my need to fly for a regional or smaller cargo carrier, but it will definitely reduce the time it takes to bump up to a major (and increase my marketability for a flying guard unit).

Were you talking about RPA contractors or deployed flying contracts? I'm very familiar with pretty much all of the RPA contracting jobs. They pay great....but I'd like to pick where I live and quality of life to spend time with my family and on other priorities is a bigger factor for me than pay (I don't want to work in Vegas, New Mexico, or 3 on 3 off to various crap holes of the planet). Also, the gravy train will end at some point when the Air Force realizes it is shooting itself in the foot with RPA retentio. Deployed ISR flying contracting is something I hadn't really thought about though as another possible path to get to my 750 hours for the R-ATP. Anybody have gouge on co-pilot hiring requirements, pay, ops tempo, and the types of aircraft (assuming MC-12 and King Air type stuff). Admittedly, I haven't googled it yet. 

Get out, join a UPT reserve unit, go to a regional, consolidate, wait for a call from a major. 

[tunes]

13 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

I love how the rules of poker can change mid-hand.

This is certainly changing my decision matrix on going back to flying next summer with 1 year of UPT ADSC left.  If I decline a PCS, sit in place for an extra year I'll have been out of a jet for 4 years.  However, with a solid flying record and ATP in hand, I think/hope a regional will let me buy them a drink while I wait for an interview.

A regional will call you within 24 hours of applying, assuming you apply during the week.

[FourFans]

13 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

I love how the rules of poker can change mid-hand.

This is certainly changing my decision matrix on going back to flying next summer with 1 year of UPT ADSC left.  If I decline a PCS, sit in place for an extra year I'll have been out of a jet for 4 years.  However, with a solid flying record and ATP in hand, I think/hope a regional will let me buy them a drink while I wait for an interview.

I'll be in that interview line with you.

[di1630]

Let’s see if fingers rolls in and if he does which side he is on. What’s your money on?

I think there will be a defined list of ADSC additions for each event. A new jet with 3 yrs after TX should not be the same as an IPUG.

We’ll see how many people bail before they sort it out.