?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Motofalcon]

It doesn't matter what you flew in UPT, because you were never officially qual'ed in that aircraft (no form 8). So AFPC views PIT as an initial qual, which means you pick up the full 3 years. 

As far as block 16, read a little closer - it says "...(no) break in flying between AETC non-MWS aircraft..." The way I (and other personnel it's I've talked to) read this is if you switch trainer airframes within AETC (i.e., switch from t-38 to t-6 for a command opportunity, etc) then you don't pick up a 3 year adsc, even if it is an initial qual. 

There still is the problem with notes 1b and 1c being contradictory (my situation, posted earlier), but basically, if you are getting an initial qual (i.e. Your form 8 says "INIT" on it) you will pick up a 3 year adsc, even if that takes you past your 10 year UPT commitment. 

I don't agree with it, but when I tried to fight it, I lost. YMMV. 

[Duck]

Moto, that's what I figured. They seemed adamant about it with my PIT class. Even had a guy who was just a year out from his UPT ADSC expiration and he got the 3 year too.

[Motofalcon]

I was in a similar situation (only 2 years left on UPT 10-yr commitment) when I got the assignment to PIT - my options were to accept a 3-yr ADSC or 7-day opt.  I cited note 1b, they replied with note 1c (because I had never been -38 qualed before) and I took the 3 years (instead of what I assume would be something like an ALO in Djibouti for my remaining 2 years...)

[Motofalcon]

*pile on the the block 16 info: I was a previous t-6 FAIP, and while I had left AETC, I had never stopped flying before getting asssigned to the t-38. I tried to twist that to say I had meant the letter of the law - I had transitioned between AETC non-MWS aircraft without a break in flying (I had never stopped flying, even though the tour in the middle was operational) - but the intent is switching trainer aircraft back to back, so they shot me down there as well. 

[Whitman]

Thanks for the help!  No T-6's for me unfortunately.  Seems like a great time and I imagine seeing students progress from barely soloing to formation/instrument pilots is very rewarding.  

[Motofalcon]

Yes, taking a pedestrian all the way up to being solo on your wing is very rewarding and a lot of fun, but the flip side of that RMO is when 2 days after track select your new class shows up and they don't know what initial is, how to start the plane, how to do a walk around.... That transition from training day 69 back to day 1 was always painful as an IP...

[Duck]

Or nowadays being in the X-band and absorbing all those BS deployments that pop up.

[Motofalcon]

Shack. 

[ViperStud]

When was the reg last updated?  I used the tables to nix my 3-yr ADSC from PIT and reset it back to UPT ADSC; that was back in 2012. AFPC was familiar and didn't fight me. I was never a FAIP.  It worked; 2.5 yrs from PIT I was already in the guard. Did they fix the glitch?

[Motofalcon]

The one I referenced here and during my debate with AFPC is the one on e-pubs, dated 30 April 2012.  So Viperstud you may have been operating under the old reg, or right when the new one came out so the personnelists didn't fully know the changes and operated under the old guidance. 

[mcbush]

On 3/12/2016 at 1:22 PM, Motofalcon said:

personnelists didn't fully know the changes

That can't be right... they're closed for training every week!

[sqwatch]

The one I referenced here and during my debate with AFPC is the one on e-pubs, dated 30 April 2012.  So Viperstud you may have been operating under the old reg, or right when the new one came out so the personnelists didn't fully know the changes and operated under the old guidance. 

I find myself balls deep in 36-2107 and am surprised that dudes going through pit for the t-38 are getting 3 year ADSCs as fighter dudes got a f8 for iff.

[ViperStud]

6 hours ago, sqwatch said:

 

I find myself balls deep in 36-2107 and am surprised that dudes going through pit for the t-38 are getting 3 year ADSCs as fighter dudes got a f8 for iff.

When did that change?  My first form 8 was in the Viper; I'm pretty sure our punks now are the same way. 

[brabus]

No f8 in iff for at least the last 10 yrs as far as I know, but I heard it was such a thing in the past. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by brabus

[Snooter]

On March 25, 2016 at 8:52 PM, brabus said:

No f8 in iff for at least the last 10 yrs as far as I know, but I heard it was such a thing in the past. 

I'm sure they "fixed the glitch..."

[Waingro]

No f8 in iff for at least the last 10 yrs as far as I know, but I heard it was such a thing in the past. 

I'm sure they "fixed the glitch..."

I received primary time for IFF and all the post-grad landing currency flights at UPT. You're not allowed to log primary time unless qualified on the aircraft. Maybe they've changed it, but I always thought I was qualified in the T-38 post-UPT. Does AFPC think differently?

[brabus]

Unless you have an I/Q form 8 in your FEF for the T-38, you were never officially qual'd in it, despite logging primary time (which is not directly related to aircraft qual).

[sqwatch]

I believe you can log primary time since you're flying the jet AND you have your wings.

[hispeed7721]

I believe you can log primary time since you're flying the jet AND you have your wings.

At CBM they've started letting grad students fly the T1...they are required to log "other" time since they're not qual'd in the jet, regardless of the fact that they're flying and have wings.

Brabus is correct that you have to have a form 8 to be considered qual'd

[Waingro]

Just going off of 11-401. "Only qualified aircrew members will log primary time."

I don't have a dog in the fight, but for the guys getting boned with the 3-year PIT ADSC, I'd be looking high and low for ways to get out of it.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Duck]

Off topic but applicable to ADSC.

If one was to be passed over twice and turn down continuation, they would have to separate within 6 months regardless of any remaining UPT ADSC.

Would the same apply for someone who was selected but turned down the promotion? Or would they force you to complete the remaining ADSC at the rank of Captain?

[HossHarris]

There's a note in the adsc afi that says if you graduated upt after a certain date (10-yr adsc as I recall), then the AF can't give you any additional flying related adsc's.  

 

Or something like that. Read the afi. It's a note on a table. 

[Azimuth]

24 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

There's a note in the adsc afi that says if you graduated upt after a certain date (10-yr adsc as I recall), then the AF can't give you any additional flying related adsc's.  

 

Or something like that. Read the afi. It's a note on a table. 

AFI 36-2107 Table 1.1

Note 1b - 

b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs.

[MooseAg03]

Note 1B from AFI 36-2107

b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs.

 

Have guys not used this to fight additional ADSC for PIT/Requal/Initial Qual? 

[sqwatch]

Works if you're not initially qual'ing. Not the case for t6/38 ips.