?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Mox]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

I'm fairly sure I've read on here about guys changing the "3" to a "0" on the ADSC paperwork, signing it, and turning it in to AFPC.  And not a word was said.  Or maybe the scotch just made that up, but either way worth a shot.  What's the worst that could happen, they say you have to re-sign with "3" in the blank spot?

I did this. I'm 3 weeks from completing PIT. I also got a mypers case with a response that states note 1b applies. I'll be on the lookout for changes coming up

[sqwatch]

As a data point, we had a dude who showed up at my ANG unit a year or so ago as an AD guy. Turns out he got an assignment he didn't like and told the OG he was separating to join our unit. The OG responded by asking - what if he could get him the same assignment on AD?  He said yes and the assignment changed to an AD billet with us. The porch is very much negotiating with terrorists at this point, regardless of what they actually say. You give up any and all leverage the second you sign that ADSC paperwork. 

 

But I'm special...

 

And that's 90% true. I never had another undesirable assignment. I simply costanza'd the AF after a righteous deployment, got hired with "the unit", and told the boss I was quitting. My OG, being the great dude that he is and one of many good guys I worked for on AD, called the porch to get me the AD billet at "the unit"- why he did this is anyone's guess. Dare I say that he was a great boss and wanted what was best for me and my (previous) family? Maybe he wanted to keep another fighter pilot around and did what he could at his level to affect that? It was a symbiotic decision- I got the move paid for via PCS, an IPUG on the AF dime and the AF got to keep an extra digit on the spreadsheet- until I quit at the end of my one year ADSC incurred from oconus to conus. But make no mistake- I never had an undesirable assignment. Some drunk guy once told me to never quit your job unless you have another lined up. That advice seemed to make sense at the time...

 

At any rate, the attempt at my retention was to no avail. I'm a guard guy now at "the unit" loving life and the GS pay that goes with it.

 

[Oo7kerpow]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:42 PM, HossHarris said:

You can 3-day opt a 365 like you always could. 

 

You can no longer set a DOS if you get a 179 to get out of the 179. Did you notice that almost all the 365s have been split into 2x 179s. Weird coincidence I'm sure. 

 

(If you already have a DOS set before notification of a 179 you should be good. Of course if you have a DOS in the next 6 months you shouldn't be getting a 179 ....)

Randomly perusing these forums and came across this one.  As I am separating 30 Mar 18, I thought I'd shed some light since some of this information is inaccurate.  If you are purely separating (not retiring) you can absolutely establish a DOS to avoid a 179.  3-day and 7-day options are for assignments and 365s because they are handled through the assignment process.  The separations reg, AFI 36-3207, says absolutely zero about reasons preventing you from separating as it relates to deployment.  I'm not even sure the word is in the reg.  If  you are able to separate given any of the reasons in the reg, you can do it.  

In October of 17 I was tasked with a deployment May 18-Dec 18.  My UPT commitment ends in March 18.  The next day after receiving the tasking, I submitted a separation package in vMPF for Mar 30, 2 days before my AEF window opens.  AFPC said it didnt matter and than I could've picked any date before the end of the deployment and I agreed with them, but I'm superstitious and left it that way.  My boss knew it was coming because I briefed him of this possibility months ago (because I was also supposed to PCS in the spring and theoretically protected by a DAV code starting in Nov 17).  The deployment functional dude wasnt happy, but I showed my boss and the wing/cc the regs and put "completion of active duty service commitment" as my reason for separating and it went right on through.  There is nothing in 36-3207 that prevents you from doing this.

Retirements on the other hand, are different.  The reg changed a few years ago and now if you can complete your -179 deployment within your ADSC (plus 30 days) you are required to go.  However, people get confused about 365, the chart simply says if you are not eligible to 3 or 7 day opt then you have to go on the 365.  If you are eligible to 3/7 opt, you can still do that (36-2110).  They did also add notes about Stop Loss to the sections discussing retirement and deployments, however.

[BashiChuni]

On 9/3/2017 at 8:08 PM, Mox said:

I did this. I'm 3 weeks from completing PIT. I also got a mypers case with a response that states note 1b applies. I'll be on the lookout for changes coming up

Any updates?

im getting pushback from AFPC irt the 3 year add on adsc. 

Very frustrating because advanced flying training should not add onto my initial UPT ADSC. 

 

[Guest]

Any updates?
im getting pushback from AFPC irt the 3 year add on adsc. 
Very frustrating because advanced flying training should not add onto my initial UPT ADSC. 
 

Is your training in something you weren’t previously qual’d in?

[MooseAg03]

Read note 1c very carefully. If you crossflow/retrain to a new airframe you incur the 3 year ADSC even if it extends beyond 10 years rated service. I believe you need a previous Form 8 to avoid the commitment. This is exactly why I didn’t fight to go UPT upon returning to fly.

Does anyone have experience limiting ADSC for MWS IP upgrade to end concurrent with the UPT ADSC? It seems to me Note 1b would apply here and even if I upgrade to IP with only a year to go, that 2 year ADSC should end at the same time as my UPT commitment.

[ThreeHoler]

IP upgrade is a new qual so your ADSC extends past UPT commitment. IP requal does not extend your commitment and I have successfully applied 1b in the past.

[BashiChuni]

I don’t think IP qual in your MWS adds commitment. 

Whats the point of note 1b? Specifically says advanced flying training WILL NOT incur additional ADSC

[Guest]

IP upgrade is a new qual so your ADSC extends past UPT commitment. IP requal does not extend your commitment and I have successfully applied 1b in the past.

IPUG should not extend your ADSC. I know of many people who have successfully used note 1b for IP school.

[ThreeHoler]

And I know many people who got note 1c for IP upgrade

[BashiChuni]

which is totally F'd up. if you're inside three years ADSC do not go white jets. AFPC is stupid.

1b should be it.

enjoy your pilot shortage assholes

[DirtyFlightSuit]

IP Qual does not extend your ADSC, those who got extended let the system have its way with them.  Doesn't surprise me at all though, we have a guy here who attempted to clarify that he would not accept additional ADSC for 1C note, but would take the assignment if they waived it.  By the time he had an answer (in the negative) he was past the seven day period and was forced to take the assignment. 

 

[ThreeHoler]

You can shout that from the rooftops...but I am telling you AFPC doesn’t give a shot what you think the reg means. Caveat emptor.

[BashiChuni]

oh i believe you

but im still going to try

[Mox]

11 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Any updates?

im getting pushback from AFPC irt the 3 year add on adsc. 

Very frustrating because advanced flying training should not add onto my initial UPT ADSC. 

 

No commitment. I changed ADSC to read zero due to note 1b. Called AFPC with the reg and got confirmation. Never qual’d in the T-1 beforehand. I also PCS’d before PIT so started that clock early 😀. There was also a memo that came out last year that said people that went to PIT were erroneously given an ADSC. 

[MooseAg03]

Well, I’m not willing to take the chance. I’ll just rack up as many PIC hours as possible in my last year and save the 6 week trip to Altus.

[Disco_Nav963]

Stiff-arming ADSCs for MWS instructor is a clean kill. It's always been PIT (Tweet babies going to teach the T-6, or T-38 guys going to teach the T-1) that AFPC dicks people down with. I've successfully dodged ADSCs both for B-52 CFIC and WIC. Can't argue with you about spending time in Altus though.

[war007afa]

On 7/7/2018 at 12:35 AM, BashiChuni said:

I don’t think IP qual in your MWS adds commitment. 

Whats the point of note 1b? Specifically says advanced flying training WILL NOT incur additional ADSC

This. Had a few guys in the gunpig community successfully press to test this. 

[Guardian]

Stiff-arming ADSCs for MWS instructor is a clean kill. It's always been PIT (Tweet babies going to teach the T-6, or T-38 guys going to teach the T-1) that AFPC dicks people down with. I've successfully dodged ADSCs both for B-52 CFIC and WIC. Can't argue with you about spending time in Altus though.

How did you dodge Wic?

[Disco_Nav963]

14 minutes ago, Guardian said:

How did you dodge Wic?

Note 1b (the "get out of jail free" card that applies to MDS instructor upgrade) also applies to USAFWS. Reference AFI 36-2107, Table 1.2, Rule 17, Note 1b. 

[MDDieselPilot]

So we (join spouse) will PCS summer 2019, i'm currently not flying.  My UPT ADSC expires Oct 2020.  if AFPC is not able to match us to an assignment with my old MWS, can they force me to take a white jet (Scott, Tampa) and therefore 3 year ADSC that would go past my UPT commitment?  I say those locations because my wife's rank/job essentially requires she work at a HHQ location.

 

[ThreeHoler]

Easy. Don’t join spouse. Sucks to be you but you both did sign up for the shitshow of the AF managing your combined living togetherness. Newsflash: most people in join spouse families don’t live together a lot.

[ViperStud]

3 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

So we (join spouse) will PCS summer 2019, i'm currently not flying.  My UPT ADSC expires Oct 2020.  if AFPC is not able to match us to an assignment with my old MWS, can they force me to take a white jet (Scott, Tampa) and therefore 3 year ADSC that would go past my UPT commitment?  I say those locations because my wife's rank/job essentially requires she work at a HHQ location.

 

They can't force you to do anything beyond your ADSC, but the choices you're left with may complicate your personal life since you chose to marry an AD chick.  I was join spouse for two assignment cycles.  The first time, her functional pulled a rabbit out of a hat and matched her to a ground job near me, flying her with a local guard unit (drug deal).  The second time, our good deals fell apart due to manning in the Viper world and her lack of IP-ness so we ended up matched to white jets.

If they can't get you a job in your MWS near her, they may offer you a white jet near her and try (seems like they've been successful lately) to stick you with the 3-yr ADSC for PIT.  You don't HAVE TO take it, you could say no since PCS and/or training ADSC would take you past your UPT commitment.  Overwhelmingly when I've seen dudes do this, the AF keeps them at their current assignment for the extra year, often with a 179 or 365 as a "thanks for your service" gift.  I've seen a few rare cases where they PCS a dude anyway (to a location that doesn't require re-training/ADSC) and only get the ~1.5 years out of them there.  For us Viper dudes, that means Korea.

BL - you'd likely end up choosing between (A) staying at your current base and (unless they can delay her PCS) apart from her until you separate, or (B) taking the PIT job and getting stuck with the 3-year ADSC.  

 

Footnote - I was one of the lucky ones who got out of the PCS ADSC.  When I PCS'd and went to PIT it was contentious but I signed the ADSC paperwork (adding 7 months to my ADSC) based on which battles I chose to fight.  When I got to the UPT base, I called the ADSC office at AFPC and put it a magical trouble ticket based on the discussions above.  Two weeks later, they whittled back my ADSC to UPT date.  Looks like they are not doing that so much, coincidentally the shit has hit the fan with the pilot shortage...likely not a coincidence.

Edited to add: ThreeHoler is right - AD was more than fair to me/us when working join spouse stuff.  Matching KC-135 and Viper wasn't easy; sounds like your match isn't easy either.  That was your choice, not AFPC's.

Edited July 11, 2018 by ViperStud

[Guardian]

Note 1b (the "get out of jail free" card that applies to MDS instructor upgrade) also applies to USAFWS. Reference AFI 36-2107, Table 1.2, Rule 17, Note 1b. 

Which says? And Means?

 

Thanks for the answer.

[MDDieselPilot]

7 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Easy. Don’t join spouse. Sucks to be you but you both did sign up for the shitshow of the AF managing your combined living togetherness. Newsflash: most people in join spouse families don’t live together a lot.

Copy all, and it's no newsflash for us.. we know many couples who elect to live apart to continue both careers as far as they can.  That's not for us. I'd rather sit tight in my current job for an extra year and separate before we live apart, hence wondering what they can force us to do if I've still got ADSC and we both are on the VML.