?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Bode]

So I can just say Pcola said it, so i cant get an adsc from it.

From what I have read it seems like you would have to have a formal training RIP. You won’t get that for a sq requal plan. As such, no ADSC.

[Bode]

So can you now 3 day opt all 365 deployments within 4 years of your ADSC, since the return requal will trigger this new ADSC which will put you beyond your UPT commitment? 

Except that’s not part of the 365 deployment requirements. Also, if they are popping you for deployment they aren’t even looking at your requal requirements. I’ve been back for a little over a month and am still waiting on my requal to be approved the the gp/cc. Guess we don’t UPT instructors TOO much.

[Guardian]

Why the personal hate towards Fingers? 

He is a careerist that only cares about the force itself, if at all. Not individuals or promises made to individuals. Nor does he care about quality of life. When asked point blank about these issues when not prepared for them his answer is you all signed up and are volunteers. Whatever the Air Force chooses to do with you, you should accept even if it flys in the face of what was previously promised to you. It is mission first for him at every cost. And his mission is clearly stated that it’s not the people behind accomplishing the mission. He is a tard. He is part of what’s wrong with Air Force leadership and the air force’s quest to burn itself down. And he is at the helm.

[Champ Kind]

He is a careerist that only cares about the force itself, if at all. Not individuals or promises made to individuals. Nor does he care about quality of life. When asked point blank about these issues when not prepared for them his answer is you all signed up and are volunteers. Whatever the Air Force chooses to do with you, you should accept even if it flys in the face of what was previously promised to you. It is mission first for him at every cost. And his mission is clearly stated that it’s not the people behind accomplishing the mission. He is a tard. He is part of what’s wrong with Air Force leadership and the air force’s quest to burn itself down. And he is at the helm.

And you base this on.......?

[Homestar]

11 hours ago, Guardian said:

He is a careerist that only cares about the force itself, if at all. Not individuals or promises made to individuals. Nor does he care about quality of life. When asked point blank about these issues when not prepared for them his answer is you all signed up and are volunteers. Whatever the Air Force chooses to do with you, you should accept even if it flys in the face of what was previously promised to you. It is mission first for him at every cost. And his mission is clearly stated that it’s not the people behind accomplishing the mission. He is a tard. He is part of what’s wrong with Air Force leadership and the air force’s quest to burn itself down. And he is at the helm.

What? Is he supposed to sit down with you over avocado toast and seek to understand your feelings?

[FourFans]

15 hours ago, Guardian said:

He is a careerist that only cares about the force itself, if at all. Not individuals or promises made to individuals. Nor does he care about quality of life. When asked point blank about these issues when not prepared for them his answer is you all signed up and are volunteers. Whatever the Air Force chooses to do with you, you should accept even if it flys in the face of what was previously promised to you. It is mission first for him at every cost. And his mission is clearly stated that it’s not the people behind accomplishing the mission. He is a tard. He is part of what’s wrong with Air Force leadership and the air force’s quest to burn itself down. And he is at the helm.

Pretty deep seated hate man, which is saying something coming from me.  What gives?

[brickhistory]

If the Air Force is not just bleeding pilots, but spurting (sts) them from a femoral artery, then CSAF's direction, and more importantly, follow up, should be to identify every impediment to aviator retention, implement near and mid-term solutions, and come clean to everyone - up and down the chain - on the very real problem.  A tourniquet now followed by surgery within the next year.

Not either be unaware or ignore such a band-aid fix as this mosquito-bite irritant of stealth ADSC increases which will have the opposite effect of driving more out rather than rat-fcuk-catching a few.

It is his job and he's failing at it.  How long has he been in the saddle and what significant changes have been made, and instituted/honored, by the beast between CSAF and Capt O'Donuts?

[ThreeHoler]

He directed that crew rest can be waived to 0 hours by a Sq/CC because he once had to launch an alert crew as CFACC.

He has talked about 69 is initiatives to improve QOL but so far they are all vaporware.

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

If the Air Force is not just bleeding pilots, but spurting (sts) them from a femoral artery, then CSAF's direction, and more importantly, follow up, should be to identify every impediment to aviator retention, implement near and mid-term solutions, and come clean to everyone - up and down the chain - on the very real problem.  A tourniquet now followed by surgery within the next year.

Not either be unaware or ignore such a band-aid fix as this mosquito-bite irritant of stealth ADSC increases which will have the opposite effect of driving more out rather than rat-fcuk-catching a few.

It is his job and he's failing at it.  How long has he been in the saddle and what significant changes have been made, and instituted/honored, by the beast between CSAF and Capt O'Donuts?

1.  Our combat squadrons now have civilian schedulers, training folks, and mobility folks, meaning there's continuity and fewer flyers having to manage things like RAP, scheduling, and mobility folders.

2.  He implemented about a dozen tiers of bonuses, including this year offering a bonus to WSOs even well past their initial commitment.

3.  He's reduced the number of 365s.  From what our functional is telling us, there are only about 20 365 jobs left that aren't SQ/CC or more senior leadership.

4. He separated IDE selection from promotion boards.

5. He approved the OCP uniform for wear.

6.  You can push up the sleeves on your flight suit.

Maybe you don't think that's enough...I know most on the board don't.  But he's not just sitting around.  He is actively working to change things within the Air Force.  I don't think the problem lies with Fingers.  The problem lies at the WG/CC GP/CC level and with A-staff at the MAJCOM.  If all of that leadership actually implemented the things Fingers is telling them to, life would be a lot better for line dudes.

[Guardian]

 

And you base this on.......?

first hand knowledge

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

3.  He's reduced the number of 365s.  From what our functional is telling us, there are only about 20 365 jobs left that aren't SQ/CC or more senior leadership.

This one is double edged. 

Yes, there are fewer 365s. But they are almost all 179s now. 

179s are a lot less painful, yay us!

But you also can’t 3-day opt a 179, yay Usaf retention. 

I doubt the actual  number of deployed occupied desks making coffee and checking slides has changed significantly. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by HossHarris

[Swizzle]

“We can’t afford to lose our treasure [due to aircraft mishaps], and our treasure is our Airmen, first, and our aircraft and weapons systems our nation relies upon.”
- Gen David Goldfein, Chief of Staff, US Air Force
 

A bit reminiscent of a famous Lord of the Rings quote's meaning....

[Bode]

This one is double edged. 
Yes, there are fewer 365s. But they are almost all 179s now. 
179s are a lot less painful, yay us!
But you also can’t 3-day opt a 179, yay Usaf retention. 
I doubt the actual  number of deployed occupied desks making coffee and checking slides has changed significantly. 

This is the problem. From HAF the only 365s are advising gigs to the ‘Stan. Even Iraq is only a 179 advising mission. We are not reducing billets just adjusting your length which some people like and others don’t.

[jice]

Does anybody have a friend at A1 or AFPC/DP3A who can confirm that the ADSC change was intentional and not a mistake in editing? Seems like the least the organization can do is own the decision.

There’s a massive difference between a cowardly trap and a calculated bad deal. 

[ThreeHoler]

Does anybody have a friend at A1 or AFPC/DP3A who can confirm that the ADSC change was intentional and not a mistake in editing? Seems like the least the organization can do is own the decision.
There’s a massive difference between a cowardly trap and a calculated bad deal. 

It was already confirmed as intentional.

[brickhistory]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

 

Maybe you don't think that's enough...I know most on the board don't.  But he's not just sitting around.  He is actively working to change things within the Air Force.  I don't think the problem lies with Fingers.  The problem lies at the WG/CC GP/CC level and with A-staff at the MAJCOM.  If all of that leadership actually implemented the things Fingers is telling them to, life would be a lot better for line dudes.

And who is in charge of those bolded?  Which was/is my point.  CSAF orders them to get on board or they're gone.  Yet they don't.  So who's ultimately to blame?  I say he is.

 

All the things you listed, while helping, are small ball.  And completely undone in importance when things like this stealth ADSC effort are rolled out.  Trust in the institution is the biggest thing lacking.  Sneaky involuntary servitude doesn't help regain it.  

[Orbit]

Is this the talk of every squadron around the AF right now?  Because it seems like everyone is talking about it where I am at.  The dudes that were on the fence about staying in for a staff job are pretty much saying screw this because it forces them to just about 20 years (if they return to flying) with all the new changes.

[panchbarnes]

This went out to everyone regardless of O/E, year group, AFSC.  Funny thing is this e-mail is worded like one of the leadership self-nom opportunities.

Btw, in our little corner, if you express the intent not to complete 20 years or pursue command opportunities, your next OPR will be without school or leadership pushes.  I'm not a flyer, nor in a flying unit, but my AFSC/YG is undermanned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALCON,

SUBJECT: Aviator Technical Track (ATT) Selection Board Call for Nominations

SUSPENSE: 10 AUG 18

BLUF:  AMC will conduct an Aviator Technical Track (ATT) Selection Board in August 2018 to select Mobility Pilots to conduct a beta test on the viability of an aviation technical track.

Eligible Personnel must be:

- Majors and Major-Selects with Between 11 and 13 Commissioned Years of Service (CYOS).

- Must be currently qualified in a Mobility or Trainer (with Mobility Core

AFSC) aircraft as an Instructor or Flight Examiner.

- Absence of negative quality factors.

Commanders should nominate Mobility Pilots who demonstrate high quality flying skills, knowledge, and abilities without the desire to pursue command opportunities. 

Please see attached PSDM 18-62 for further guidance. 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by panchbarnes
added background info

[jazzdude]

Is this the talk of every squadron around the AF right now?  Because it seems like everyone is talking about it where I am at.  The dudes that were on the fence about staying in for a staff job are pretty much saying screw this because it forces them to just about 20 years (if they return to flying) with all the new changes.

Realistically, guys would be going to staff around the 12 year mark, pretty close to when their initial commitment is up. If you want to go to the airlines, that's the time to punch, and pass on the staff gig. If you take the staff gig, you probably will be staying until 20 anyways (non current after staff, with 15 years in and close to the check of the month club, and probably took the bonus).

Staying in past your initial commitment for a staff assignment, going non current, then deciding to get out at 15 to go to the airlines is dumb.

[ThreeHoler]

I know several people who were at staff, 3+ years non current, punched at 16-17 years, and were hired directly into a major airline.

[icohftb]

25 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

 

 

Realistically, guys would be going to staff around the 12 year mark, pretty close to when their initial commitment is up. If you want to go to the airlines, that's the time to punch, and pass on the staff gig. If you take the staff gig, you probably will be staying until 20 anyways (non current after staff, with 15 years in and close to the check of the month club, and probably took the bonus).

Staying in past your initial commitment for a staff assignment, going non current, then deciding to get out at 15 to go to the airlines is dumb.

 

It might be dumb, but having the flexibility and freedom to make the decision is pretty damn nice.

[jice]

26 minutes ago, icohftb said:

It might be dumb, but having the flexibility and freedom to make the decision is pretty damn nice.

And furthermore! if the rules are subject to change in  sneaky, spineless ways who’s to say the rest of the calculus holds? I can stand on my cranium for 10 years... but if there’s a X% chance of surprise total game-rule change, my family isn’t going to be held hostage. 

[jazzdude]

I know several people who were at staff, 3+ years non current, punched at 16-17 years, and were hired directly into a major airline.

With 4-5 years less seniority than what they could've had.

Not saying it can't be done, but it's probably smarter to punch at your first opportunity if you aren't going to stay to 20, especially in this hiring environment

[jazzdude]

It might be dumb, but having the flexibility and freedom to make the decision is pretty damn nice.

Until you get stop lossed anyways...

[HossHarris]

The real question is why are you hearing about this here, and not from management?