?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Disco_Nav963]

Kept the 3 year hard ADSCs for WIC and TPS (that DO extend you past your 10 or 6). Wonder how application rates for those programs are trending.

[Guardian]

19B is a ghost town

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, Guardian said:

19B is a ghost town

Yep.  I heard it was the one of the lowest in WIC history across the Air Force.  The B-1 community didn't even have enough applicants to make a full class, let alone select the most competitive.

[Danger41]

It ebbs and flows. Honestly, most of the people that apply for WIC and TPS would do it even with ADSC ramifications (some, not all). Look at the PSDM for 19A that released not long ago in the Strike Eagle. Shit load of applicants. And for pilots on a 10 year commitment, it’s pretty rare that a 3 year ADSC takes you past (or at least significantly past) the 10 year UPT. It does happen when Majors go through or prior FAIPs or something, but if I had to guess I’d say it’s less than a quarter of applicants. CSO’s and other career fields, completely different story.

[Disco_Nav963]

9 hours ago, Danger41 said:

It ebbs and flows. Honestly, most of the people that apply for WIC and TPS would do it even with ADSC ramifications (some, not all). Look at the PSDM for 19A that released not long ago in the Strike Eagle. Shit load of applicants. And for pilots on a 10 year commitment, it’s pretty rare that a 3 year ADSC takes you past (or at least significantly past) the 10 year UPT. It does happen when Majors go through or prior FAIPs or something, but if I had to guess I’d say it’s less than a quarter of applicants. CSO’s and other career fields, completely different story.

Agree, agree... I feel like it does have some ramifications in my corner of the world (BUFFworld) where instructor CSOs collectively outnumber IPs; plus in the past we've had a disproportionate number of older pilots go through (e.g. 15B had two FAIPs, 16B had a FAIP, 17A had a FAIP; we've had an O-4 IP go on a waiver after coming back from ALO; in the next class we have an elder IEWO going through on a waiver after returning from the ADAS at Nellis, although given he's already past his initial commitment Big Blue probably has him for life anyway).

To the extent this deters applicants of any specialty, it hurts us collectively since all nearly all of our W-Coded jobs are specialty-agnostic (Wing EWO is an exception, but then again we don't always fill that with a patch). I also care selfishly as a Reservist because it's easier for me to recruit AD patches to PALACE CHASE/PALACE FRONT than it is to season an off-the-street guy from n00b to instructor/ML and then get him/her in the one AFRC slot a year we get under 11-415. Sometimes I think RegAF would rather be manned at 50% with people they can fully control & not have enough TFI help to pick up the slack vs being at 75% and trying to keep AD free agents happy/staying and TFI partners happy/motivated to keep volunteering.

[Disco_Nav963]

10 hours ago, Danger41 said:

It ebbs and flows. Honestly, most of the people that apply for WIC and TPS would do it even with ADSC ramifications (some, not all). Look at the PSDM for 19A that released not long ago in the Strike Eagle. Shit load of applicants. And for pilots on a 10 year commitment, it’s pretty rare that a 3 year ADSC takes you past (or at least significantly past) the 10 year UPT. It does happen when Majors go through or prior FAIPs or something, but if I had to guess I’d say it’s less than a quarter of applicants. CSO’s and other career fields, completely different story.

Pile on to the pile on... The recent AFI changes most acutely affect CSO/ABM/RPA; the Intel/Cyber/Space/ICBM/etc. grads never had a "can't extend you past your initial skills training AFSC" get out of jail free card to start with.

[Chuck17]

On 10/22/2018 at 12:50 PM, LookieRookie said:

New ADSC reg dated 22 October on e-publishing today. All ADSCs for IQ/RQ/IPUG/PIT are gone.

No coincidence that it happened right after Corona and following LtGen Grosso’s departure from A1... Hopefully the uptick continues.

Chuck

[ThreeHoler]

What greener pasture is Gina off to?


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[olevelo]

TPS always had the 3 year ADSC. However there was a loophole that was getting exploited more and more recently where guys were punching less than a year after graduating. That caught the eye of AFMC/A3 and was one of the instigators in the AFI change to get rid of the loophole.

IMHO, 3 years is nothing to pay back for what you get at TPS, and every single person who applied knew that was the deal, and it was completely disingenuous of them to pull the loophole card to take their patch/degree and run. I know some had some legitimate family issues that came up, but there’s other ways to deal with that.


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[BashiChuni]

Fysa my additional ADSC for white jets has been removed on MyPers. Showing only UPT ADSC

[Hunter Rose]

Seems like HAF finally realized pilots don't want to accept additional ADSCs.  Maybe now they'll apply that outlook to the bonus and we'll see increased compensation in the from of Professional Pay without huge ADSCs.  Here's hoping.

[Genghis John]

On 10/24/2018 at 9:12 AM, ThreeHoler said:

What greener pasture is Gina off to?


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Probably textron with Debbie. 

[MooseClub]

3 hours ago, Hunter Rose said:

Seems like HAF finally realized pilots don't want to accept additional ADSCs.  Maybe now they'll apply that outlook to the bonus and we'll see increased compensation in the from of Professional Pay without huge ADSCs.  Here's hoping.

You know what they say about hoping

...but yes, let’s hope 

[Disco_Nav963]

12 hours ago, olevelo said:

TPS always had the 3 year ADSC. However there was a loophole that was getting exploited more and more recently where guys were punching less than a year after graduating. That caught the eye of AFMC/A3 and was one of the instigators in the AFI change to get rid of the loophole.

IMHO, 3 years is nothing to pay back for what you get at TPS, and every single person who applied knew that was the deal, and it was completely disingenuous of them to pull the loophole card to take their patch/degree and run. I know some had some legitimate family issues that came up, but there’s other ways to deal with that.

With all due respect, go fuck yourself. It wasn't a loophole, it was part of the AFI. "The deal" was 3 years... not to exceed your UPT or UCT commitment. There is nothing disingenuous about it. Had Big Blue wanted "the deal" to be a full 3 year payback, they would have done that. This year they decided that was what they wanted and they made the change. You have no moral authority to shit on people who volunteered for those programs under the earlier set of rules. That'd be like shitting on the last set of pilots who only got tagged with 6 or 8 year ADSCs (or whatever it used to be) for not staying for 10 voluntarily.

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Disco_Nav963 said:

With all due respect, go fuck yourself. It wasn't a loophole, it was part of the AFI. "The deal" was 3 years... not to exceed your UPT or UCT commitment. There is nothing disingenuous about it. Had Big Blue wanted "the deal" to be a full 3 year payback, they would have done that. This year they decided that was what they wanted and they made the change. You have no moral authority to shit on people who volunteered for those programs under the earlier set of rules. That'd be like shitting on the last set of pilots who only got tagged with 6 or 8 year ADSCs (or whatever it used to be) for not staying for 10 voluntarily.

Yep.  For a group of folks consistently looking to get out of ADSCs one way or another, it seems like a strange stance to shit on people who found a way to get out of ADSCs.

"How do I get out of my bonus ADSC?  Can I just pay the money back?"

"How do I get out of my GI Bill ADSC?  Can I untransfer it if it hasn't been used?"

"How much of my UPT ADSC can I get out of if I go Guard/Reserve?"

And yet, they're upset at people who followed the AFI to the letter.

[Duck]

Haterz gunna h8.

[Tonka]

https://www.jqpublicblog.com/torpedo-general-takes-aim-wrong-target/

For posterity purposes...

funny he retired 6 months later.

[pcola]

Anyone know the process of applying for an ADSC waiver to retire? My bonus ADSC takes me 8 months past the 20-year point and I’d like to look into getting those 8 months waived to retire at the first opportunity. I realize I’d be paying back those 8 months of unearned bonus. Totally worth it.


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[ThreeHoler]

Anyone know the process of applying for an ADSC waiver to retire? My bonus ADSC takes me 8 months past the 20-year point and I’d like to look into getting those 8 months waived to retire at the first opportunity. I realize I’d be paying back those 8 months of unearned bonus. Totally worth it.


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Not to discourage you but it is eight months pre-tax (so 2/3 of the payment, not what went in your bank).

I had a prior-E buddy who got 2x passed over for O-5. He had a bonus commitment to 21 years. They continued him to 20 (24 was not an option until the next year). He asked to stay until the end of his bonus and they said no. In hindsight he could have kept the bonus for the extra year since he hit 20 after his payment anniversary but oh well.

In this climate...I’d be surprised if they waive it. But you never know. Go in vMPF and set that separation date for 20 years when you can. Good luck! Who knows maybe they’ll waive it and not notice you’re a pilot.

[pcola]

The bonus money is pennies compared to the $300/month in pension money I’d be foregoing. Over a potential 40 years of drawing pension that’s $144K. Still worth it.


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[slackline]

Anyone know the process of applying for an ADSC waiver to retire? My bonus ADSC takes me 8 months past the 20-year point and I’d like to look into getting those 8 months waived to retire at the first opportunity. I realize I’d be paying back those 8 months of unearned bonus. Totally worth it.


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RUMINT WARNING:
Maybe this was discussed earlier, but reading everything in this place is one currency I haven't tried to chase...
I had heard discussion on something about some kind of a loophole not requiring a waiver. A simple matter of legally not being able to extend people past 20 if you give the remainder back. No clue what/if any truth there is to that, but I'd be a fan of it were true. Mine takes me 8 months past 20 as well.


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[war007afa]

15 minutes ago, slackline said:

RUMINT WARNING:
Maybe this was discussed earlier, but reading everything in this place is one currency I haven't tried to chase...
I had heard discussion on something about some kind of a loophole not requiring a waiver. A simple matter of legally not being able to extend people past 20 if you give the remainder back. No clue what/if any truth there is to that, but I'd be a fan of it were true. Mine takes me 8 months past 20 as well.


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Unfortunately, the only way you’re getting out of an ADSC to retire without a waiver is if you sign continuation paperwork that expires before said ADSC. Everything else has to go to the Puzzle Palace for forgiveness. Sorry. 

[Bigred]

4 hours ago, war007afa said:

Unfortunately, the only way you’re getting out of an ADSC to retire without a waiver is if you sign continuation paperwork that expires before said ADSC. Everything else has to go to the Puzzle Palace for forgiveness. Sorry. 

For my own clarity, if an O-4 has an ADSC takes him past 20, but DOPMA says HYT is 20, does the O-4 retire at 20 or stay past 20 till the ADSC expires?

*edit - O-4 not on the bonus

Edited December 3, 2018 by Bigred

[jazzdude]

For my own clarity, if an O-4 has an ADSC takes him past 20, but DOPMA says HYT is 20, does the O-4 retire at 20 or stay past 20 till the ADSC expires?
*edit - O-4 not on the bonus

DOPMA would takes precedence. But I think HYT for O-4 is 24 years.

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[war007afa]

6 hours ago, jazzdude said:

DOPMA would takes precedence. But I think HYT for O-4 is 24 years.

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*dependinf on the current rules of the game

The myPers site for Active Duty Officer Promotions Unser Continuation shows what the SecAF offerings are for critical career fields. Pretty much any career field with incentive to leave gives continutuation UP TO 24 YEARS. You don’t have to select 24 years. You can ask for continuation to 20. Seen it done and seen it in progress with signs of approval.