?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[ThreeHoler]

You can select 24 and still retire at 20.


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[war007afa]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

You can select 24 and still retire at 20.


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The caution here is that selecting 24 and asking for 20 later then complicates asking for separation due to ADSC, requiring waiver instead of the automation in ADSC reduction associated with selecting 20. 

Know what you truly want and do some soul searching when you get to this junction. A lot of pieces and effects tied together.

Love our personnel system 🤬

[ThreeHoler]

The caution here is that selecting 24 and asking for 20 later then complicates asking for separation due to ADSC, requiring waiver instead of the automation in ADSC reduction associated with selecting 20. 
Know what you truly want and do some soul searching when you get to this junction. A lot of pieces and effects tied together.
Love our personnel system 🤬

There is no ADSC with continuation.

[war007afa]

13 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

There is no ADSC with continuation.

 

Except the reason we’re even talking about it was as a way to shorten an ADSC without a waiver.

[pawnman]

34 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

There is no ADSC with continuation.

 

But if I had an ADSC that took me to, say, 22 years, and I selected 24 years for continuation...is the original ADSC still in effect, or can I retire at 20?

The point being made is that if you only take continuation to 20, you can retire at 20 and the USAF regardless of any other ADSCs you have.  What is unclear is if you can retire without a waiver at 20 with an ADSC that takes you beyond 20.

[jazzdude]

There is no selecting how long your continuation is for, just continued or not. There is a max tenure for a rank that you can be continued to. But there is no commitment by you or the AF. The AF could decide to non continue you at any point before sanctuary (ref the 150ish continued majors who had the rug pulled out from under them in 2012). You can decide to separate/retire before high year tenure, barring any ADSCs you agree to.

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[ThreeHoler]

There is no selecting how long your continuation is for, just continued or not. There is a max tenure for a rank that you can be continued to. But there is no commitment by you or the AF. The AF could decide to non continue you at any point before sanctuary (ref the 150ish continued majors who had the rug pulled out from under them in 2012). You can decide to separate/retire before high year tenure, barring any ADSCs you agree to.

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Factually incorrect. 11X O-4 passed over 2x for O-5 can currently select continuation to either 20 or 24 years on their form.

[ThreeHoler]

Factually incorrect. 11X O-4 passed over 2x for O-5 can currently select continuation to either 20 or 24 years on their form.

Also, once offered continuation there is a huge process to removing someone from continuation. The 157 Majors were 2x non-selected and NEVER offered continuation. Totally different scenario.

[olevelo]

Confirming the confirmation on this. Once I got the corrected offer for 24, it also had the option to only accept 20.

Whichever one you select, they give you an automatic DOS in the system. So no ADSC's can push you back. However, any ADSC inside of that is fair game, so if you PCS or do some type of training it could impact the ability to punch between 20 and 24.

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[MooseClub]

36 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

Factually incorrect. 11X O-4 passed over 2x for O-5 can currently select continuation to either 20 or 24 years on their form.

 

 

17 minutes ago, olevelo said:

Confirming the confirmation on this. Once I got the corrected offer for 24, it also had the option to only accept 20.

Whichever one you select, they give you an automatic DOS in the system. So no ADSC's can push you back. However, any ADSC inside of that is fair game, so if you PCS or do some type of training it could impact the ability to punch between 20 and 24.

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Exactly. Continuation in itself is not an ADSC and that’s spelled out specifically on continuation paperwork. It gives you the option to serve to that time. If you selected 24 years and decided at 20 to retire, they could not stop you based solely on that continuation.

For the original question, as olevelo points out, I also believe based on the new DOS, established by the continuation acceptance, that had someone taken the 20 years aviation service bonus previously that this would then have you retirement eligible at 20 and not force you to go past it, unless you wanted to. You’d very likely be forced to pay back any unearned portion of your bonus at that point, but otherwise free and clear. 

[jazzdude]

Also, once offered continuation there is a huge process to removing someone from continuation. The 157 Majors were 2x non-selected and NEVER offered continuation. Totally different scenario.

Upon more research, I was wrong. Sorry for spreading bad gouge.

I was passed over as a captain, so my research was through that lens, and for which continuation looks different. https://dopma-ropma.rand.org/selective-continuation.html

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[olevelo]

For the original question, as olevelo points out, I also believe based on the new DOS, established by the continuation acceptance, that had someone taken the 20 years aviation service bonus previously that this would then have you retirement eligible at 20 and not force you to go past it, unless you wanted to. You’d very likely be forced to pay back any unearned portion of your bonus at that point, but otherwise free and clear. 

I almost found out. I took the bonus to put me at 24, because I already have a PhD commitment until then. But when I got passed over and they initially only offered 20, AFIT threatened to kick me out of the program because I'd only have one year to pay back. I could have tried to fight them on it, with the fact that big AF made the decision. But I signed all the paperwork knowing what would probably happen on each end so it was hard for me to fight that in good faith.

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[pcola]

My question still stands. I’m not passed over, nor on any continuation. Can I retire at 20 with a bonus ADSC that takes me past 20? Anyone have any experience with this or know which reg covers it?


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[ThreeHoler]

My question still stands. I’m not passed over, nor on any continuation. Can I retire at 20 with a bonus ADSC that takes me past 20? Anyone have any experience with this or know which reg covers it?

You will need a waiver as previously stated to get out of an ADSC at 20 years.

https://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=ADSC+regulation

[pcola]

Yeah I found it in the retirements reg. 36-3203. Actually also just learned that it takes a POTUS waiver to retire in a grade above O-4 with less than 2 years TIG. I always heard that you just revert to the lower grade but never knew the less than 2 years rule. Apparently requires proof of extreme hardship. Looks like I’ve got 2 more years. Bah


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[ThreeHoler]

Yeah I found it in the retirements reg. 36-3203. Actually also just learned that it takes a POTUS waiver to retire in a grade above O-4 with less than 2 years TIG. I always heard that you just revert to the lower grade but never knew the less than 2 years rule. Apparently requires proof of extreme hardship. Looks like I’ve got 2 more years. Bah


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You can retire with less than 2 years as an O-5. You will be a “Maj (ret)”. It requires a waiver to be “Lt Col (ret)” with less than 2 years.

You will still be paid on your high 36 months of pay including the months of O-5 pay.

[fueL2Fight]

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

You can retire with less than 2 years as an O-5. You will be a “Maj (ret)”. It requires a waiver to be “Lt Col (ret)” with less than 2 years.

You will still be paid on your high 36 months of pay including the months of O-5 pay.

That seems like a bureaucratic technicality. You wore the rank for 18 months, you have pics. The USAF can't control what you put in your shadow box. Sure the paperwork might say the lower grade, but you can still put the silver oak leafs on your retirement tchotchkes, right?! No one is stopping you other than red tape conscience. If I saw someone wear Lt Col rank till his/her last day, that's how I'll think of them at the VFW bar....?

[BashiChuni]

STOLEN VALOR!!!!!!!!!

[pcola]

Yeah not really giving a shit about what the retirement cert says. Any other potential impacts from being retired at the lower grade? Pay is not a factor with the high-3 rule.


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[Champ Kind]

Yeah not really giving a shit about what the retirement cert says. Any other potential impacts from being retired at the lower grade? Pay is not a factor with the high-3 rule.


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Were you APZ to O-5?

[HU&W]

4 hours ago, pcola said:

Yeah not really giving a shit about what the retirement cert says. Any other potential impacts from being retired at the lower grade? Pay is not a factor with the high-3 rule.


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When you go to the commissary on the first and fifteenth of every month, the SF Airman at the gate will say 'good morning major' instead of colonel.

[pcola]

Were you APZ to O-5?

IPZ, Prior E


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[Champ Kind]

IPZ, Prior E


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Gotcha. Makes sense.

[Tonka]

Anyone have good advice/examples on what qualifies for "Hardship" and/or "Best interest of the AF"?  

PCS ADSC is ~7 months past 20 years. Probably not looking for much, just a little over a month off... which will move retirement date up ~60 days (ADSC is early in the month and have to retire on the 1st of the month... which effectively adds an additional month to ADSC?) With FY changeover effects (have to use 30 use/lose this FY, before hitting terminal) - will make the transition a whole lot more enjoyable.  

Can medical issues for the member be spun as "hardship" for them (pain management) or would that be more of a MEB concern? If permanently non-deployable would it be "best interest of the AF" to get rid of someone to make the metrics better?

[ThreeHoler]

Did you try to 7-day the PCS so the ADSC only took you to retirement eligibility?

They’re (DoD) supposed to be booting all non-deployable. But Mattis is gone so who knows if that will stay.


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