?s on ADSC (Active Duty Service Commitment)

[Guest GCL]

now this may be an incredibly dumb question....but i have never seen the answer anyway so...

i know a normal officer has a 4 year AD commitment with 4 year ready reserve

do pilots have a longer ready reserve period than a normal officer?

[brabus]

You owe 10 yrs post winging and that's it AFAIK.

[POKESC17]

Thread Revival.

Ok going to put the question out there since all my research has turned up ZIP. I'm looking at a probable medical DQ. Knowing that this DQ is probably going to happen I've been looking at my options. I have the opportunity to get a full time slot with a guard unit (non-flying obviously) and I'm wondering if I will still be held to the 10 year ADSC if I'm Medically DQ'd or does this fall under the it depends category? So far all my questions receive blank stares from the MPF crowd and the Regs give very little guidance. Does anyone know of someone doing something like this or know what Reg would specifically talk about this. I've been through 36-3207, 3202, 2107 and countless others and walked away more confused than when I started.

[Guest Crew Report]

Have you already signed for your 10 year ADSC?

Edited September 21, 2010 by Crew Report

[JeepGuyC17]

Thread bump and ADSC question. What happens if I go from a C-17 assignment to a UPT assignment then back to the C-17 and the requalification ADSC will go past my original ADSC? There's a note in the AFI that advanced flying training ADSCs will not extend beyond 10 years of flying unless you are crosstraining to a different rated career field or airframe, but is requalification in your primary MWS after a white jet assignment considered switching to a different airframe?

[matmacwc]

Thread bump and ADSC question. What happens if I go from a C-17 assignment to a UPT assignment then back to the C-17 and the requalification ADSC will go past my original ADSC? There's a note in the AFI that advanced flying training ADSCs will not extend beyond 10 years of flying unless you are crosstraining to a different rated career field or airframe, but is requalification in your primary MWS after a white jet assignment considered switching to a different airframe?

You dont have to sign anything that takes you past your ADSC, I think the AFI is pretty clear.

[baileynme]

Thread bump and ADSC question. What happens if I go from a C-17 assignment to a UPT assignment then back to the C-17 and the requalification ADSC will go past my original ADSC? There's a note in the AFI that advanced flying training ADSCs will not extend beyond 10 years of flying unless you are crosstraining to a different rated career field or airframe, but is requalification in your primary MWS after a white jet assignment considered switching to a different airframe?

Deployed with an AC who just went through this, she said that requal cannot extend it past your 10 year AFSC, there are only two things they can extend for (PCS and one other thing I forgot, I think PME?). Problem is, most personnel offices don't understand this reg so you'll have to look it up and show it to them, I can ask her what the reg is.

[baller06]

JeepC17:

Should be in the MDS vol 1 section 2. For the KC-10 it states, "Unqualified crew members (up to 39 months at the end of a non-flying assignment or 48 months at the end of any active flying assignment) will complete a SQ/CC directed requalification (TX-3) course in-unit and a flight evaluation. Note: The requalification formal school flying training courses may be substituted for in-unit training. An ADSC is required if the formal school option is utilized."

It sounds like if you do an in-unit requal program you should be good, no ADSC. I imagine this is similar guidance for the C-17s as well.

[whodat17]

C-17 V1 is very similar to the KC-10, though it doesn't give you/the squadron an option of an FTU requal:

2.9.2.1.3. Unqualified C-17 pilots (up to 39 months at the end of a non-flying assignment or 48 months at the end of any active flying assignment) will complete the ATS local Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot Requalification (TX-3) course in-unit and a flight evaluation. (Note: A waiver is not required for this in-unit requalification).

So, like others have said, you should be good to go as long as you don't bust the 48 month mark.

[Larry Sellers]

C-17 V1 is very similar to the KC-10, though it doesn't give you/the squadron an option of an FTU requal:

2.9.2.1.3. Unqualified C-17 pilots (up to 39 months at the end of a non-flying assignment or 48 months at the end of any active flying assignment) will complete the ATS local Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot Requalification (TX-3) course in-unit and a flight evaluation. (Note: A waiver is not required for this in-unit requalification).

So, like others have said, you should be good to go as long as you don't bust the 48 month mark.

Question for you guys on this-

Just recieved a RIP for T-38 PIT, with the standard 36 month ADSC. This will take me past my 10 year commitment. I am a previous T-37 and T-6 IP but have never been qualified in the -38. What reg do I reference to find out if the additional ADSC is legit? I asked my MPF and they didn't know but said "they would get back to me".

[ahamay]

AFI 36-2107. See note 1 under the ADSC table.

[Larry Sellers]

AFI 36-2107. See note 1 under the ADSC table.

Thanks!

Still confused though, the reg seems contradictory. First it says:

"All pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not

incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend

beyond 10 years of continuous or cumulative rated service."

Then it goes on to say:

"Rated officers who retrain into another rated career field (e.g., air battle manager who retrains as a navigator or pilot),

crossflow to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe will incur the full ADSC

for that training even if that ADSC extends beyond the officer’s 10th year of rated service."

Is a white jet considered a "crossflow to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe "?

[osulax05]

Seems pretty ambiguous to me... Probably on purpose so the asshats at AFPC can interpret it to suit their needs.

[Rudy the Rabbit]

You're going to be a 38 IP but didn't track 38's?

[SurelySerious]

You're going to be a 38 IP but didn't track 38's?

You don't get a Form 8 out of UPT, so he wouldn't be previously qualified if he had tracked 38s.

[Homestar]

You could always just check the "No" box and see what happens.

Seriously though, I'm genuinely interested in this. If they hand me orders with a 2 year ADSC and I only have 18 months on my UPT commitment, can't I just check "No Thanks" and set a separation date of 18 months in the future?

[tac airlifter]

You don't get a Form 8 out of UPT, so he wouldn't be previously qualified if he had tracked 38s.

Is this a -38 thing? I got a form 8 from T-44's. Maybe the Navy does it differently, but I just looked in my 942.

[matmacwc]

You could always just check the "No" box and see what happens.

Seriously though, I'm genuinely interested in this. If they hand me orders with a 2 year ADSC and I only have 18 months on my UPT commitment, can't I just check "No Thanks" and set a separation date of 18 months in the future?

Yes you can. Just make sure you do it in vMPF as well or they won't consider you 7 day opted. They have a few options for you if you do that (which you dont decided BTW); stay at you current base, move you anyway and no ADSC.

[HookEmAll]

Yes you can. Just make sure you do it in vMPF as well or they won't consider you 7 day opted. They have a few options for you if you do that (which you dont decided BTW); stay at you current base, move you anyway and no ADSC.

Matmac always gives good advice. My CC keeps telling me to tell him everything I plan (........ok.......) but keep my cards from afpc as long as possible. He told me the closest thing to a sure thing he could tell me that it was highly unlikely they would PCS you with 12 months or less. More than that and you were equally likely to move with no ADSC and stay at your home station and separate at your ADSC end.

[Larry Sellers]

Yes you can. Just make sure you do it in vMPF as well or they won't consider you 7 day opted. They have a few options for you if you do that (which you dont decided BTW); stay at you current base, move you anyway and no ADSC.

I actually want the PCS vs. staying at my current base so don't really want to press to test on that one. Just don't want to sign something taking me past my 10 year ADSC (thinking ahead on AFRC/Palace Chase) if I don't have to. Not sure I have enough ammo with the "note 1" of the reg since you could interpret that either way.

[Tank]

Thanks!

Still confused though, the reg seems contradictory. First it says:

"All pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not

incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend

beyond 10 years of continuous or cumulative rated service."

Then it goes on to say:

"Rated officers who retrain into another rated career field (e.g., air battle manager who retrains as a navigator or pilot),

crossflow to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe will incur the full ADSC

for that training even if that ADSC extends beyond the officer’s 10th year of rated service."

Is a white jet considered a "crossflow to a different weapons system (basic qualification) or aircraft airframe "?

Switching to a T-38 is not considered a cross-flow so the only way you will go past your initial ADSC is due to the PCS and not the T-38 training itself.

I just finished a TX-2 course this past January where I signed the RIP stating that I will owe 36 months after the completion of the training. However, b/c of the regulation, my initial ADSC date is still what I have showing June 2012 and not the 36 months that the RIP showed.

I was also told by the porch that if I go to another white jet after this assignment that even that training will not take me past my original ADSC from UPT and the only extra committment I will have is from the PCS.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Tank

[Guest]

He told me the closest thing to a sure thing he could tell me that it was highly unlikely they would PCS you with 12 months or less.

I know three guys who got sent to Korea with 19.25 yrs in. They got the original orders, elected to 7 day opt...and got orders to Osan anyway. Not so nice since it's kinda tough to interview from over there. Shitty deal and no way to treat someone who has done their 20 yrs.

[matmacwc]

You're going to get a PCS commitment no matter how you slice it. There is a nuclear option if your willing to take it with reference to a training commitment. Wait until you get your RIP, page 2 or 3 has the PCS commitment on there as well as a training commitment, the PCS (conus-conus) will be 2 years. Now, the training commitment MIGHT say 0 if this would take you past you UPT ADSC. In this case, you can sign it, take the assignment and continue on your merry way. Make 1.2 million copies and gold plate it, do not sign another commitment document and carry the RIP with you, use it as proof or documentation that you and your SQ/CC signed a document showing no further commitment. Its nuclear cause the AF can F you in the A, but you'd have a he'll of an IG complaint.

[Larry Sellers]

You're going to get a PCS commitment no matter how you slice it. There is a nuclear option if your willing to take it with reference to a training commitment. Wait until you get your RIP, page 2 or 3 has the PCS commitment on there as well as a training commitment, the PCS (conus-conus) will be 2 years. Now, the training commitment MIGHT say 0 if this would take you past you UPT ADSC. In this case, you can sign it, take the assignment and continue on your merry way. Make 1.2 million copies and gold plate it, do not sign another commitment document and carry the RIP with you, use it as proof or documentation that you and your SQ/CC signed a document showing no further commitment. Its nuclear cause the AF can F you in the A, but you'd have a he'll of an IG complaint.

My RIP states 36 month ADSC for training and this would extend beyond the original 10 year ADSC - we're talking months, not years, but as we all saw during the last VSP something like this could make a big difference.

Sounds like Tank had the standard 36 month ADSC on his RIP but it wasn't added past 2012 - I'm gonna call them back and reference the reg to see if they'll delete the 36 months from my rip. Not hopeful since they couldn't even point me in the right direction for the reg.

[Larry Sellers]

Got to work today and had the Form 63 ADSC to sign in my in-container. Called the SSgt and referenced the reg - I'm being told that I will incur the 36 months because I'm 'retraining to a different airframe'. Not sure how to push back on this one since the reg contradicts itself in the same note.