Who wants a T-38?

[Guest tapeworm]

With the huge amount of uncertainty surrounding a drop of out T-38s (from F-22 to Cannon NSA), do dudes currently want T-38s? There was talk that one would be able to switch to T-1's if they didn't like it - did that ever happen? Are guys being forced into T-38s?

There was talk when I went through 38's that some dudes weren't strong enough to make it and that the reasoning was that T-38's weren't as desirable as they once were. This was when drops included <gasp> several fighters. I imagine that has shifted/is shifting yet further...

[Guest AFlyer55]

With the huge amount of uncertainty surrounding a drop of out T-38s (from F-22 to Cannon NSA), do dudes currently want T-38s? There was talk that one would be able to switch to T-1's if they didn't like it - did that ever happen? Are guys being forced into T-38s?

There was talk when I went through 38's that some dudes weren't strong enough to make it and that the reasoning was that T-38's weren't as desirable as they once were. This was when drops included <gasp> several fighters. I imagine that has shifted/is shifting yet further...

There's always dudes that want -38s, usually more than are dropped. Drops are obviously down to around 3 active duty -38s per class now, and even that may be reduced, but that isn't holding the guys back that really want fighters. The guys with good attitudes go into track and assignment nights knowing that you're either #1 in the class or you're not. #1 gets what he wants, the rest have to live with what they get. The way I see it, maybe I get an NSA to Cannon, but I still get to fly, and I still got to fly the T-38.

That said, there is the occasional class where the top guys want nothing to do with fighters. I know of a recent class at CBM that had the top 6 guys all pick Tones at track. It happens, and it is happening more with the likelihood of getting a fighter in its current downward spiral.

[Riddller]

We've had a couple briefs here at Vance from the DO and CC of the -38 squadron saying: "Hey, we're still great! You top guys should still pick us!!"

They're obviously worried that Mr. #1 isn't going to want -38's.

[brabus]

I suspect once the UAV bomb is dropped, there's going to be a big push to avoid 38s. There will always be at least one or two guys who are die-hard fighter and want to at least take the chance, but I bet we stop seeing classes of 5+ guys wanting 38s really soon. In my friend's class there's 5 dudes that want helos. He said it sounds like most are changing their mind about 38s, including him.

[Riddller]

Unfortunately, I've heard UAVs are going to be dropped from T-1s too...

[FlyinGrunt]

Unfortunately, I've heard UAVs are going to be dropped from T-1s too...

Sounds like a great reason to go to Corpus!

[Guest thefranchise]

we havent dropped more than 2-3 T-38 spots in the last 6 assignment nights. i wouldnt be suprised if only 1 AD spot drops next class.

[brabus]

If that's true about the Tones getting UAVs, then I foresee helos and 44s becoming very popular.

[FLY6584]

If that's true about the Tones getting UAVs, then I foresee helos and 44s becoming very popular.

Yeah, but at least with Tones you'll probably have about a 1 in 15 chance of getting a UAV compared to the 1 in 3 to 1 in 2 chance you have with a 38.

Personally I have always wanted to fly fighters and never even thought I would consider not putting them first, but I'm coming up on track select and it looks like I'll be putting Tones first and 38's second. Of course I would still love to fly fighters and it's been tough letting go of that dream, but sometimes you just have to face reality.

Honestly I still think there are plenty of dudes that will still put them first because of the chance that they will get fighters. I know I'm just not one of them. It's more important to me to actually fly a real aircraft than to roll the dice on the 38 side and maybe get a fighter or maybe get a UAV.

2 years ago dudes worried about dropping a buff out of 38's which really isn't that bad because at least your still flying something and blowing shit up. Now this year dudes had to worry about dropping a U-28 or NSA which sucks, but is definitely doable because once again you're still flying, but now dudes are going to be facing UAV's out of the 38 side and I just think that is where I personally draw the line. Yeah sure I would love to be able to say I'm going to work my ass off in Phase 3 so I don't end up with UAV's, but the truth of the matter is you're going into Phase 3 with 2 other dudes who are probably shit hot pilots and to say you're going to be better than them is just impossible to say and not to mention would be arrogant and out of line. Some may be able to predict whether they have what it takes to get a 38 out of Phase 2, but to be able to predict that you're going to be number one in Phase 3 is bull $hit because you're probably going to be with 2 other great pilots and chances are your scores might be very similar when it's all said and done.

Anyways thats my take on it. I really hope it works out for the dudes that do take the chance on the 38 side. It's just not a chance I'm willing to take, but in the end I wish them the best.

Edited June 23, 2008 by FLY6584

[brabus]

Good point on the chances. At least if you go T-1s you've still got a pretty good shot at not getting a UAV, but I heard pretty much what you posted in the UAV thread, so chances are going to be "good" on the 38 side to get one. Sucks...I can definitely understand your thought process on the whole track select thing.

[HeloDude]

If that's true about the Tones getting UAVs, then I foresee helos and 44s becoming very popular.

I'd say that over the past few years especially, helos and 130's have always been pretty popular. This whole UAV scare is just the icing on the cake for guys who want to fly low.

[di1630]

Yeah, but at least with Tones you'll probably have about a 1 in 15 chance of getting a UAV compared to the 1 in 3 to 1 in 2 chance you have with a 38.

Personally I have always wanted to fly fighters and never even thought I would consider not putting them first, but I'm coming up on track select and it looks like I'll be putting Tones first and 38's second. Of course I would still love to fly fighters and it's been tough letting go of that dream, but sometimes you just have to face reality.

2 years ago dudes worried about dropping a buff out of 38's which really isn't that bad because at least your still flying something and blowing shit up. Now this year dudes had to worry about dropping a U-28 or NSA which sucks

1. I bet by the time you drop there is either a UAV track or T-1's and 38's will have a "equal" portion of the UAV's. It won't take long before someone realizes sending the best studs to worst A/C doesn't make sense + nobody will choose -38's.

2. Don't give up the dream.....fighters are worth the effort and worth the chance. Unless you have always dreamed of flying a heavy(some have, more power to 'em) you need to roll the dice to fly -38's.

3. Man, I know that C-17 with the hudand stick sounds cool, but there is a reason AMC guys are skipping the bonus and gettin the hell out. I'd rather take a U-28 ANYDAY than a cargo or tanker. Better flying, probably gone less, job satisfaction to name a few. Heavy dudes will argue but if you go the fighter track...you can always go fly a heavy later on. If you go T-1's....the dream is over.

4. The 38 is the ticket. There are a TON of guys out there flying fighters who didn't get one out of 38's back in the 90's. When the fighter shortage happened, those guys got snatched up from C-130's, C-141's etc to go fly F-16's. No T-1 guy has ever gotten to Xfer to fighters.

5. Even if you only fly the 38 for 6 months, you've still gotten to fly a high performance supersonic afterburning jet solo. Not a toned(excuse the expression) down civi beechjet.

[HeloDude]

1. I bet by the time you drop there is either a UAV track or T-1's and 38's will have a "equal" portion of the UAV's. It won't take long before someone realizes sending the best studs to worst A/C doesn't make sense + nobody will choose -38's.

2. Don't give up the dream.....fighters are worth the effort and worth the chance. Unless you have always dreamed of flying a heavy(some have, more power to 'em) you need to roll the dice to fly -38's.

3. Man, I know that C-17 with the hudand stick sounds cool, but there is a reason AMC guys are skipping the bonus and gettin the hell out. I'd rather take a U-28 ANYDAY than a cargo or tanker. Better flying, probably gone less, job satisfaction to name a few. Heavy dudes will argue but if you go the fighter track...you can always go fly a heavy later on. If you go T-1's....the dream is over.

4. The 38 is the ticket. There are a TON of guys out there flying fighters who didn't get one out of 38's back in the 90's. When the fighter shortage happened, those guys got snatched up from C-130's, C-141's etc to go fly F-16's. No T-1 guy has ever gotten to Xfer to fighters.

5. Even if you only fly the 38 for 6 months, you've still gotten to fly a high performance supersonic afterburning jet solo. Not a toned(excuse the expression) down civi beechjet.

I feel it's necessary to add an additional, slightly different perspective on this post for all the newer guys on here. If your ultimate dream is to fly a fighter and everything else comes second to that, and after all the research of what they do (tons of time briefing and debriefing from what my buds tell me) and how the community is (a lot of eating their young, again, from what I hear from buds), then you should definitely try and go 38's. Just know that right now it seems as if only the top couple guys in each 38 track is getting a fighter right out of UPT and the UAV's are on their way.

Most guys in phase II tend to change their minds at least once of what track they want to pursue...and I'll say that's a good thing. Guys just need to know that there's a lot more out there than getting a 'chance' to fly a fighter...heavies, 130's, helos...they all have their pros and cons, just like the fighters. One of my good buddies from Tweets once said (doubt he coined the phrase) "There is no such thing as bad tracks, just bad drops". Every track adds its own flavor and it's wise to learn as much as you can prior about what assignments can be dropped out of each track and what those assignments are really like.

As for just going 38's to say if nothing else that you've flown a single seat supersonic 'trainer'...I think that's pretty . Pick the track that makes the most sense to you. You can lay everything you have on the line for a chance to fly a fighter, but the reality is that unless you're in the top few (if that), that's all you're going to get to say..."I got to fly a 38 for 6 months". Now, I'll caveat this by saying that there's nothing at all wrong with getting bombers or the PC-12's...but it's not that fighter you so desperately desired above everything else.

[spaw2001]

The problem with this so-called "rolling the dice" for the dream of flying a fighter is that when it doesn't work out, the bitching starts. I've seen it time and again that when someone takes a gamble and loses with the T-38 thing, they then turn around and start saying, "this is crap...I fly a T-38 and deserve a fighter...why should I get a UAV, U-28 etc...? If you want to take a gamble, good for you...but if it doesn't work out, you knew the risk...The face of the AF is changing... The flavor of the week happens to be AFSOC, UAVs, the boring C-17, etc...It is time to start accepting it and realizing that entrance into the T-38 no longer necessarily endows you to fly a fighter.

[Whitman]

The way I see it is, even if you do not get a fighter out of T-38's, you have highly valuable training to fall back on in the future. If/when the JSF comes on line and they need pilots, you might have a chance at cross flowing (0% if you go heavies). Further, Guard/Reserve have hired heavy pilots without T-38 time, you'll have a "chance" again at getting a guard/reserve fighter gig. It all comes down to opportunities. If you've always wanted to fly a fighter, know the facts and trends but don't be scared by the stuff you can't control. TIMING.

For me, I want to fly fighters or AFSOC so U-28/NSA's don't worry me. Preds on the other hand are scary, but at the end of the day, you can still rest your head down at night knowing that you gave it your all and now are in the fight and doing more damage in one tour than a fighter guy does in his entire flying career. T-1's would be nice but I want to do something in my AF career that I cannot do in the civilian world and fighters or herks seem more closely aligned with that. I figure I've got the rest of my life to worry about good deals.

Lastly, as trivial as it may sound, I don't want my old man to be the only one in the family who's flown the T-38

Track select (or as the navy calls it, selection) is in app. 3 weeks so we'll see. Either way, I'm still thrilled I get paid to fly.

[Mike Honcho]

Preds on the other hand are scary, but at the end of the day, you can still rest your head down at night knowing that you gave it your all and now are in the fight and doing more damage in one tour than a fighter guy does in his entire flying career.

I agreed until that. Keep your comments to things you know about, I'm not too sure how much damage you think the Hogs and Strike Eagles are doing.

Do you have a vault at Whiting?

[bucky60k]

2. Don't give up the dream.....fighters are worth the effort and worth the chance.

3. If you go T-1's....the dream is over.

4. The 38 is the ticket.

5. Even if you only fly the 38 for 6 months, you've still gotten to fly a high performance supersonic afterburning jet solo. Not a toned(excuse the expression) down civi beechjet.

DUDE!!! Right on. "2!" I've always known since I saw Top Gun like 69 times that being a fighter pilot (a bro for all you shoe clerks out there) was the ONLY real job in the Air Force. Seriously, going to "work" everyday in the 38 squadron, doing some killer boldface, getting stood up for some complex EP in front of my peers, is what being a pilot is all about. Then they let me fly a killer 50 year old, high performance, used-to-be-supersonic, afterburning, centerline thrust limited jet into a MOA for like 6-9 times a week! Awesome! This is what I dreamed about since I took my first shot of weed. We all know all those heavy guys barely scraped through all of their formal training programs. Getting 100 hours in a T-38 automatically makes you better than a heavy pilot with over 20 years of global flying experience. Plus you get shit tonnes of hours in U-28 and/or UAV which is looked upon highly if you ever want to cross over for some lame flying!

For all those SNAPs on the forum I'm gonna include a list of some authorized bro aircraft as well as some dream killers:

BRO AIRCRAFT

1. F-15C- Ultimate bro machine. Don't worry that most of the kills in this aircraft were made by the Israelis in the 1980s. With the new structural improvement program it should maybe last another 6-9 months. Plus I hear the naming parties are killer! :rock

2. F-15E- Even though it drops bombs its still an Eagle therefore it kicks ass! Its got LGBs, AAMs, nukes, knives, sharp sticks...and a WSO you can yell at when you Over G.

3. F-16- Dos Gringos Rocks! Therefore F-16 must rock!

4. A-10- Big Gun. Nuff Said. Plus Rainman flew it. Thats guys awesome!

5. U-28- Its like an airborne memorial to all the bros that got shafted on drop night. It might have a yolk and doesn't require a type rating but at least you flew the 38.

6. B-52-.......

DREAM KILLERS

1. C-17- Its has a HUD, a stick (STS), a Fly By Wire system as complex as the B-2, and can land over 170K lb of cargo in under 3,500ft. Remember though, its big, has four engines, and you had to fly the Toner to get there. Its the best option of the Dream Killers but I wouldn't be caught dead flying one.

2. C-130- The Four Fan Trash Can! Its basically like flying a dump truck except the crews smell worse! Even though its been shot at more than any pointynoise machines downrange it still means you couldn't hack the fighter mentality. Plus it doesn't have a G-Suit adaptor. Herks= Choke Yourself!

3. KC-135s- Fighters only require tankers to be able to project our awesomeness at Red Flag.

4. AWACs- Nevermind our Radar can only track 6-9 bandits at a time. Who needs em. Their SA LOW light is always on!

5. C-5- This thing flies less than a 38 bro waiting for a IFF/RTU slot (STS).

6. Helos- Just one question...how do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?!

6. Any other aircraft not listed is also a dream killer because the whole goal of being a pilot is to fly a 38 regardless of the consequences.

For any of those bitter heavy drivers that will try to flame me, just realize you have you have a somewhat important mission projecting American power across the globe, and supporting our warfighters in austere environments. However, I have a date with destiny in the mighty T-38 Talon and any cadet worth his salt knows what I'm talking about. Period.

P.S. di1630 when do you start UPT?

[Toro]

I don't know whether to be amazed by your witty grasp of sarcasm or amused at the cynical rantings of a Phase 3 student.

I'll go with amused, good work.

[usaf36031]

I don't know whether to be amazed by your witty grasp of sarcasm or amused at the cynical rantings of a Phase 3 student.

I'll go with amused, good work.

That was sarcasm!?! Damn...I thought I had finally encountered someone else who "gets it". The search continues (sigh)

[Scooter14]

Bucky,

That was some good stuff. See you at Red Flag

The whole T-1=0.0001% chance of ever flying a fighter thing is something to consider.

If you go T-38-->UAV-->whatever then you could always go-->ANG fighters (that is, if there are any units left in 8 years, which I hope is true, but the way things are going, we're all going to be associates).

[Gravedigger]

DUDE!!! Right on. "2!" I've always known.......

.......Period.

F*cking awesome post!

[brabus]

U-28- Its like an airborne memorial to all the bros that got shafted on drop night.

Hahaha. Dude, don't you know the greatest "fighter pilot" to ever live flies the U-28? (inside joke everyone else).

[Guest thefranchise]

If/when the JSF comes on line and they need pilots, you might have a chance at cross flowing (0% if you go heavies).

eh I beg to differ. If I was to x-flow a dude into a JSF, who would I pick? An experienced C-17 A/C or a UAV driver that hasnt flown real plane in 4+ years....hmmmm

[Whitman]

eh I beg to differ. If I was to x-flow a dude into a JSF, who would I pick? An experienced C-17 A/C or a UAV driver that hasnt flown real plane in 4+ years....hmmmm

Said C-17 AC would require T-38 training at PIT or wherever, then JSF RTU. T-38 grad, gone preds would just need JSF RTU, right?

I agreed until that. Keep your comments to things you know about, I'm not too sure how much damage you think the Hogs and Strike Eagles are doing.

Do you have a vault at Whiting?

I actually stole that line from a good buddy of mine, a Hog driver.....what's a vault????

[Guest thefranchise]

Said C-17 AC would require T-38 training at PIT or wherever, then JSF RTU. T-38 grad, gone preds would just need JSF RTU, right?

not quite so much. If a x-flow where to somehow ever happen again, the UAV driver would need a T-38 re-qual + IFF; a heavy guy would need a T-38 TX + IFF. both would need JSF RTU