Who wants a T-38?

[F16Deuce]

eh I beg to differ. If I was to x-flow a dude into a JSF, who would I pick? An experienced C-17 A/C or a UAV driver that hasnt flown real plane in 4+ years....hmmmm

I don't see that happening. Why would they pick someone who has never even flown line abreast over a dude who has been out of a fighter for a few years? Just sayin'.

[brabus]

I don't know what the specifics are, but I doubt a 38 "TX" is any less than a 38 "re-qual" (which if I'm thinking correctly is the same thing said differently). Point is, you'd have to teach a heavy guy from square 1 how to fly a 38, where as the 38-trained guy has to just get back on the horse kind of thing...just like every T-6 FAIP does who goes to a fighter. And yes I know the heavy guy would have been flying a real airplane which does make a difference, but there's still a vast difference b/w flying a 38 and the type of flying that follows and the type of flying that follows a T-1. Not saying guys don't have the ability to x-flow, but that difference would have to be accounted for.

[FallingOsh]

DREAM KILLERS

1. C-17- Its has a HUD, a stick (STS), a Fly By Wire system as complex as the B-2, and can land over 170K lb of cargo in under 3,500ft. Remember though, its big, has four engines, and you had to fly the Toner to get there. Its the best option of the Dream Killers but I wouldn't be caught dead flying one.

I love this one. The C-17 is amazing, but if landing distance becomes the greatest part of anyone's job, I appologize sincerely.

5. C-5- This thing flies less than a 38 bro waiting for a IFF/RTU slot (STS).

HA! Ok now that's funny!

[ViperStud]

not quite so much. If a x-flow where to somehow ever happen again, the UAV driver would need a T-38 re-qual + IFF; a heavy guy would need a T-38 TX + IFF. both would need JSF RTU

Yeah I hate to rain on anyone's (what if) parade but neither would ever make it to a JSF cockpit. Let me see, let's send either (A) a UAV guy or (B) a heavy dude to the JSF when we have how many current viper/eagle guys who can fill the slot? There will always be that random dude that makes a crossflow or escapes UAVs due to some kind of guard drug deal but to make a track selection choice based on it would be foolish. The guy who falls through the cracks like that will do it regardless of what he tracks, most likely because of who he knows instead of how good of a stick he is.

BL: It's been said before on this thread, but this is a band-aid. Big blue will have to establish a UAV pipeline and stop cherry-picking like they are right now. It's the dudes in the interim who will be the tweeners that may (or may not) get back to their MWS or even back to a cockpit in the case of the UPT to UAV dudes. Some will and some won't. There will be some seriously disgruntled pilots for a while too, that much has already happened. I feel for the dudes in UPT right now because they entered figuring they would end up flying a real plane, but from here on out UAVs are part of the deal. If you don't like that don't show up at UPT. Sure it sucks but it's hard to get mad if you know the rules going in. Just my $.02.

[163 FS]

I know there are a lot of misinformed people out there. As far as what I have experienced in the A-10 so far, I'll tell you what I know.

UPT T-38: Doing their best to get us ready for IFF/FTU. I always felt like part of the squadron (as much as they could allow anyway).

then I did a FAIP tour... I really enjoyed my tour, no shit.

IFF@KRND: Dude, awesome squadron in every way. I went in hearing of the washout stories, horror stories, etc. Didn't see any of it. I really felt like part of the squadron and was always treated like a new wingman. They had standards to adhere to, but I really felt like they were training a new wingman that they would go to war with (a war where we drop imaginary bombs and shoot imaginary bullets anyway). I never saw the BS that you hear about.

A-10 FTU: No quite halfway done yet, but I'm loving every minute of it. Shooting the gun for the first time...well...it was better than sex. I'll caveat that with, if I had to choose EITHER shooting the gun the rest of my life OR the ability to have sex, I'd have to go with the sex. But, as it stands now, I get to do both and IT IS AMAZING!!! I'll just say that there is nothing like it. I look forward to the day that I can be an asset to a fighter squadron.

There will always be a difference between the heavies and the fighters. I've got a former C-130 dude in my FTU class right now and he's doing very well. He's a Guard dude for all you who are curious.

Just my input on how I see things from my side of the fence. People scoff on briefing and debriefing so long. Do I bitch and moan...hell no--my job is the be the best A-10 wingman I can be. If I spend an extra two hours reviewing tape, I'll be that much better. It's not something that people complain about, it's the way it is for a reason.

For the record, everyone has their job to do and its a highly competitive business. I commend everyone (even the shoes) that do their job to the best of their ability. Here's to all of those folks

[HerkDerka]

The C-17 is amazing, but if landing distance becomes the greatest part of anyone's job, I apologize sincerely.

If you've never landed on a dirt LZ, feel free to stay off that topic.

HD

[Guest thefranchise]

I don't know what the specifics are, but I doubt a 38 "TX" is any less than a 38 "re-qual" (which if I'm thinking correctly is the same thing said differently). Point is, you'd have to teach a heavy guy from square 1 how to fly a 38, where as the 38-trained guy has to just get back on the horse kind of thing...just like every T-6 FAIP does who goes to a fighter. And yes I know the heavy guy would have been flying a real airplane which does make a difference, but there's still a vast difference b/w flying a 38 and the type of flying that follows and the type of flying that follows a T-1. Not saying guys don't have the ability to x-flow, but that difference would have to be accounted for.

There are several classes of 38 quals that can be taught and each vary in syllabus and length (one is a TX for T-1 trained guys, another is a basic requal, and other vary on requirement). comparing a t-6 faip to a uav driver is poor. a t-6 faip is flying the exact crap a 38 flys EVERYDAY 2-3 times a day (contact/instrument/form), just 100-200 knots slower. a uav driver gets ~100 hours of 38 time and ZERO hours of contact/instrument/form for 4 years. if you think the 100 hours of 38 STUDENT time trumps over 1500 hours of REAL A/C time, well i can just say we agree to disagree.

[FallingOsh]

If you've never landed on a dirt LZ, feel free to stay off that topic.

HD

Why do people feel free to take jabs at 38s (eating their young, 9 hour debriefs, drinking weed, playing volleyball in towels...pretty much all of bucky's post which was hilarious BTW) but then get offended when someone comments about them? I know Bucky was just joking around, for the most part, and so was I.

[Herk Driver]

not to mention would be arrogant and out of line.

[sarcasm]Never heard an AF pilot say anything arrogant or out of line.[/sarcasm]

[busdriver]

Buddha, great points.

[HuggyU2]

Maybe you even get your fighter and fly your whole career without seeing any meaningful combat.

I've got a friend who is an absolutely outstanding pilot. He flew over 3000 hours in the A-10, as well as some other airframes,... and never logged a single hour of combat time in a fighter. Timing just didn't work out.

But he certainly had a distinguished career,... one that many would envy.

[di1630]

DUDE!!! Right on. "2!" I've always known since I saw Top Gun like 69 times that being a fighter pilot (a bro for all you shoe clerks out there) was the ONLY real job in the Air Force. Seriously, going to "work" everyday in the 38 squadron, doing some killer boldface, getting stood up for some complex EP in front of my peers, is what being a pilot is all about. Then they let me fly a killer 50 year old, high performance, used-to-be-supersonic, afterburning, centerline thrust limited jet into a MOA for like 6-9 times a week! Awesome! This is what I dreamed about since I took my first shot of weed. We all know all those heavy guys barely scraped through all of their formal training programs. Getting 100 hours in a T-38 automatically makes you better than a heavy pilot with over 20 years of global flying experience. Plus you get shit tonnes of hours in U-28 and/or UAV which is looked upon highly if you ever want to cross over for some lame flying!

For all those SNAPs on the forum I'm gonna include a list of some authorized bro aircraft as well as some dream killers:

BRO AIRCRAFT

1. F-15C- Ultimate bro machine. Don't worry that most of the kills in this aircraft were made by the Israelis in the 1980s. With the new structural improvement program it should maybe last another 6-9 months. Plus I hear the naming parties are killer! :rock

2. F-15E- Even though it drops bombs its still an Eagle therefore it kicks ass! Its got LGBs, AAMs, nukes, knives, sharp sticks...and a WSO you can yell at when you Over G.

3. F-16- Dos Gringos Rocks! Therefore F-16 must rock!

4. A-10- Big Gun. Nuff Said. Plus Rainman flew it. Thats guys awesome!

5. U-28- Its like an airborne memorial to all the bros that got shafted on drop night. It might have a yolk and doesn't require a type rating but at least you flew the 38.

6. B-52-.......

DREAM KILLERS

1. C-17- Its has a HUD, a stick (STS), a Fly By Wire system as complex as the B-2, and can land over 170K lb of cargo in under 3,500ft. Remember though, its big, has four engines, and you had to fly the Toner to get there. Its the best option of the Dream Killers but I wouldn't be caught dead flying one.

2. C-130- The Four Fan Trash Can! Its basically like flying a dump truck except the crews smell worse! Even though its been shot at more than any pointynoise machines downrange it still means you couldn't hack the fighter mentality. Plus it doesn't have a G-Suit adaptor. Herks= Choke Yourself!

3. KC-135s- Fighters only require tankers to be able to project our awesomeness at Red Flag.

4. AWACs- Nevermind our Radar can only track 6-9 bandits at a time. Who needs em. Their SA LOW light is always on!

5. C-5- This thing flies less than a 38 bro waiting for a IFF/RTU slot (STS).

6. Helos- Just one question...how do I get out of this chicken shit outfit?!

6. Any other aircraft not listed is also a dream killer because the whole goal of being a pilot is to fly a 38 regardless of the consequences.

For any of those bitter heavy drivers that will try to flame me, just realize you have you have a somewhat important mission projecting American power across the globe, and supporting our warfighters in austere environments. However, I have a date with destiny in the mighty T-38 Talon and any cadet worth his salt knows what I'm talking about. Period.

P.S. di1630 when do you start UPT?

Funny shit. Good Post.

I thought it was all serious til the end..mostly right on.

I won't turn this into fatty v fighter(too easy)

Gotta get back to Falcon 4.0 and Ace Combat in prep for VN 09-12 and my mighty 38 with the -22/JSF follow on.

[di1630]

eh I beg to differ. If I was to x-flow a dude into a JSF, who would I pick? An experienced C-17 A/C or a UAV driver that hasnt flown real plane in 4+ years....hmmmm

C-17 A/C or UAV driver......Hmmmm

Unless the C-17 pilot is Chuck Norris, my money is on the UAV driver.

Are we talkin Global Hawk here or Reaper? That adds a whole new dimension.

Just bored, don't mind me.

[HeloDude]

Look, if your dream is to fly fighters, just man up and go for it. Don't be a p*ssy, just do it. Its called "balls", and sometimes you need a pair.

There isn't a single road you can go down and not get boned (STS). You can go T-1s... maybe you get C-17s and get to see the world, but maybe you'll get a pred. You can go T-44s... maybe you end up doing tactical stuff in a C-130, or maybe you fly the Al Udied, BIAP run over and over and over.... but maybe you get a pred. Or you can go TH-1s (are they training on those yet?), and maybe you end up getting a CV-22 or a -60 that just happens to be sitting alert the night something actually happens... or you could sit alert for your whole career and never have anything happen, or you could spend a long time guarding missiles or flying congressman around... or you could get a pred.

Then again, you could go T-38s. Maybe you get a fighter and get to go fly awesome missions. Maybe you even get your fighter and fly your whole career without seeing any meaningful combat. Maybe you get a pred. How is that any different from anything else?

Overall I think those are great points. However, I think the original discussion was about getting an 'actual' fighter our of a T-38 drop. Now out of a T-38 drop, there might be one or two fighters, but there will probably also be bomber, a FAIP with no gurantee to a follow-on fighter, a U-28/NSA, and soon to be UAV's. So a person currently has a better chance of not getting a fighter directly out of 38's than getting one.

As for the helo route, first off, currently you have a 99.69% chance of flying a helo/tilt rotor after graduating from Rucker. For the discussion about UAV's getting dropped to Rucker studs...I'd be suprised to see more than 1 or 2 a year if that. Helo manning, mainly amongst the 60 world is pretty bad, probably one of the worst manned in the entire Air Force. Until that manning improves, I doubt you'll see more than a couple UAV's going to the helo world. The reason a lot of 38 guys are getting anything but a fighter because there's a drawdown in the number of fighters available and an increase in UAV, etc.

As much as people (including myself) hate to say it...AFPC has a reason why she does things. The reason is just seems pretty stupid and 69% of the time.

[kaleb283]

Does anyone here have any wisdom as to what the chances are of tracking 38s with a couple of hooked checkrides in T-6s?

[KState_Poke22]

Does anyone here have any wisdom as to what the chances are of tracking 38s with a couple of hooked checkrides in T-6s?

7

[Ram]

69

[10percenttruth]

Does anyone here have any wisdom as to what the chances are of tracking 38s with a couple of hooked checkrides in T-6s?

Long Answer: Depends on how you rank compared to the rest of your class, how many folks above you want -38s, & how many -38s are available. Traditionally if you're not in the top 7-10 in your class you can forget about it, but in the dark ages of RPA drops, having someone ranked 15th or lower in a class of ~30 going -38s happened occasionally.

Short answer: 6.9

[HU&W]

Does anyone here have any wisdom as to what the chances are of tracking 38s with a couple of hooked checkrides in T-6s?

Funny you use the word wisdom here. Depending on what you're struggling with in T6's it may actually be wise to request a T-1. I'm not saying that one is better or more difficult than the other. Some people just do much better with a crew to lead and to support them. Also, there are many important missions for AF pilots that don't require 90 degrees of bank in fingertip. I've personally known a number of people that probably shouldn't have gotten a T-38, went anyway, and ended up without wings due to T-38 specific struggles. I'm not saying they would have gotten through the T-1 syllabus, but they never got a second chance to find out.

[McDonut]

Funny you use the word wisdom here. Depending on what you're struggling with in T6's it may actually be wise to request a T-1. I'm not saying that one is better or more difficult than the other. Some people just do much better with a crew to lead and to support them. Also, there are many important missions for AF pilots that don't require 90 degrees of bank in fingertip. I've personally known a number of people that probably shouldn't have gotten a T-38, went anyway, and ended up without wings due to T-38 specific struggles. I'm not saying they would have gotten through the T-1 syllabus, but they never got a second chance to find out.

I second this. You know what you can handle, and it also depends on what items you hooked during your checkride. If you screwed up an instrument ride because of one autofail item, then it doesn't matter. If you got a 1U, it doesn't matter that much. If you got an 8U, that's another thing.

Flight commanders also have a lot of sway. I'm not sure how much flight commander preference comes into play during track select, but I know in assignments it's huge --- I've seen people hook T-38 checkrides and get arrested, and still track fighters because their flight commanders liked them.

Edited November 7, 2014 by McDonut

[Guest ThatGuy]

I second this. You know what you can handle, and it also depends on what items you hooked during your checkride. If you screwed up an instrument ride because of one autofail item, then it doesn't matter. If you got a 1U, it doesn't matter that much. If you got an 8U, that's another thing.

Flight commanders also have a lot of sway. I'm not sure how much flight commander preference comes into play during track select, but I know in assignments it's huge --- I've seen people hook T-38 checkrides and get arrested, and still track fighters because their flight commanders liked them.

Got arrested = RIF. Oh wait, not in the pointy world. I stand corrected. Getting arrested means you were on the bro system in UPT but when PRF time comes, you won't be on the bro list anymore.

[sqwatch]

Got arrested = RIF. Oh wait, not in the pointy world. I stand corrected. Getting arrested means you were on the bro system in UPT but when PRF time comes, you won't be on the bro list anymore.

[HeyWatchThis]

. I've personally known a number of people that probably shouldn't have gotten a T-38, went anyway, and ended up without wings due to T-38 specific struggles. I'm not saying they would have gotten through the T-1 syllabus, but they never got a second chance to find out.

Had this happen to a fellow student in my flight.....she was the first to hook out of 38's at our base in over two years supposedly (last year)....

Edited November 7, 2014 by HeyWatchThis

[Danger41]

Don't worry about the odds. If you want a T-38, put that as your #1 choice and see what happens.

While I agree with our bros here that realistic expectations are important, don't psyche yourself out at the fear of possibly not passing in a follow on trainer. If you aren't willing to challenge yourself, you'll never really improve and will end up as that copilot/wingman for life. Secondly, if it's been your dream to fly a fighter/tanker/helo/whatever, don't look back later on in life and wish you would've at least tried instead of taking the path of least resistance.

My $.02

[matmacwc]

Got arrested = RIF. Oh wait, not in the pointy world. I stand corrected. Getting arrested means you were on the bro system in UPT but when PRF time comes, you won't be on the bro list anymore.

Read-didn't get T-38s, still butt hurt. Also, cannot read between the lines.