Questions on the GI Bill (Tuition Aid)

[USAF Pirate]

So the president signed the new GI Bill yesterday. Chapter 33 benefits go into effect August 1st, 2009. If you are currently receiving Chapter 30 benefits, you should see the monthly stipend increased to $1321 a month starting with the Fall 2008 semester.

https://www.military.com/veterans-report/pr...bill?ESRC=vr.nl

What I don't understand is why the president was going to veto the bill because he thought "[it] may entice servicemembers to leave the military". Is it because the Chapter 33 benefits are so great that people want to get out and use it?

-USAFJosh

[Guest pilotapplicant]

Please Help:

I have been selected for a UPT slot by a guard unit. I have no prior military service and I will be be commissioning through AMS. My unit's training and retention offices can't seem to decide if I am eligible for the Selected Reserves Montgomery GI Bill since I will be entering as an officer with a pilot training slot.

The VA website had information about how to collect your GI Bill benefits and at what point in your service you become eligible for benefits but no information about signing up (like you must do for the ADMGIB). I also read through the about.com info (which listed no reason that someone in my circumstances would be ineligible).

Can someone point me toward a reference (AFI or AFMAN) to take to my retention office. I want to make sure I get this resolved before I leave for training.

Gratefully,

Pilotapplicant

I elected to start a new thread rather than post in the "Your New GI Bill" Thread because this seemed like a Guard/Reserve specific question. If a moderator feels otherwise please move this post accordingly.

Edited August 25, 2008 by pilotapplicant

[Guest LocoF16]

The new GI bill situation is somewhat tricky now especially for Guard folks. Regardless of what the regs say, I would take a look at what your goals are as a Guard pilot and start there. The reason I say that is because depending on the ops tempo of your unit you can be eligible for benefits with only 90 days of active duty. If you eventually get an AGR job you could be eligible for more. Each state has their own tuition assistance and stipend rules, so that will be something you'll have to research. When you compound the Montgomery GI Bill (if you contributed), the post 9-11 GI Bill, tuition assistance/waivers, and extra state benefits, you should be able to find some way to pay for additional higher education.

https://www.gibill.va.gov/

[jcollins]

As a member of the Guard (enlisted, officer, it doesn't matter - I've used it as both) you get 36 months of the base SR GI Bill after you finish your initial training which will be $329/month in FY09. At the minimum you'll have to wait until after you get back from AMS, and probably after you get back from UPT.

[Carpetbagger]

Sorry in advance for the lengthy post, but this comes from the Final version of the bill. The House and Senate individual versions have almost the same language. Here is a link that explains the "what part of my Reserve or Guard active duty time counts" question. Basically, as this reads, if you were in training for more than 24 months cumulative on active duty orders, that time will count. Less than that, and only your "contingency" time counts, per Title 10 definitions. Guardsmen whose states pay tuition will still be able to use applicable GI Bill benefits as the program is independent of state funding sources. See the highlighted portions below for more information.

House Version

Senate Version

Final Draft

Title 10 Search

SUBCHAPTER I--DEFINITIONS

`Sec. 3301. Definitions

`In this chapter:

`(1) The term `active duty' has the meanings as follows (subject to the limitations specified in sections 3002(6) and 3311(b)):

`(A) In the case of members of the regular components of the Armed Forces, the meaning given such term in section 101(21)(A).

`(B) In the case of members of the reserve components of the Armed Forces, service on active duty under a call or order to active duty under section 688, 12301(a), 12301(d), 12301(g), 12302, or 12304 of title 10.

`(2) The term `entry level and skill training' means the following:

`(A) In the case of members of the Army, Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Training.

`(B) In the case of members of the Navy, Recruit Training (or Boot Camp) and Skill Training (or so-called `A' School).

`© In the case of members of the Air Force, Basic Military Training and Technical Training.

`(D) In the case of members of the Marine Corps, Recruit Training and Marine Corps Training (or School of Infantry Training).

`(E) In the case of members of the Coast Guard, Basic Training.

`(3) The term `program of education' has the meaning given such term in section 3002, except to the extent otherwise provided in section 3313.

`(4) The term `Secretary of Defense' means the Secretary of Defense, except that the term means the Secretary of Homeland Security with respect to the Coast Guard when it is not operating as a service in the Navy.

`SUBCHAPTER II--EDUCATIONAL ASSISTANCE

`Sec. 3311. Educational assistance for service in the Armed Forces commencing on or after September 11, 2001: entitlement

`(a) Entitlement- Subject to subsections (d) and (e), each individual described in subsection (b) is entitled to educational assistance under this chapter.

`(b) Covered Individuals- An individual described in this subsection is any individual as follows:

`(1) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 36 months on active duty in the Armed Forces (including service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty; or

`(ii) is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(2) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves at least 30 continuous days on active duty in the Armed Forces; and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A), is discharged or released from active duty in the Armed Forces for a service-connected disability.

`(3) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 30 months, but less than 36 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (including service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 36 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 36 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(4) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 24 months, but less than 30 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (including service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 30 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 30 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(5) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 18 months, but less than 24 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (excluding service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 24 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 24 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(6) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 12 months, but less than 18 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (excluding service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 18 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 18 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(7) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 6 months, but less than 12 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (excluding service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 12 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 12 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

`(8) An individual who--

`(A) commencing on or after September 11, 2001, serves an aggregate of at least 90 days, but less than 6 months, on active duty in the Armed Forces (excluding service on active duty in entry level and skill training); and

`(B) after completion of service described in subparagraph (A)--

`(i) continues on active duty for an aggregate of less than 6 months; or

`(ii) before completion of service on active duty of an aggregate of 6 months, is discharged or released from active duty as described in subsection ©.

[Hotel]

Reading the legislation text above about the post 9/11 GI Bill makes it sound as if you can receive benefits even if all your active duty time has been for training (if over 24 months). So, if you have 28 months of being on active duty orders from commissioning school through all your schools/seasoning you'd get the 80% of benefits based on the chart. Not according to this answer on the VA site which contradicts the legislation. So I'm guessing either the VA site is wrong or the legislation that got approved changed the "including service on active duty in entry level and skill training".

Question

Reserve Eligibility for the Post-9/11 GI Bill

Answer

Veterans who have served at least 90 days of active duty service after September 10, 2001 will qualify for the new Post-9/11 GI Bill. Unlike REAP benefits, active duty service will be counted cumulatively and not based on the single longest deployment. Also Reserve and National Guard members with 3 years of active duty service after September 10, 2001 can now qualify for full GI Bill benefits.

Generally only federal activations count toward total active duty service, training and state call ups do not qualify. Those veterans who qualify for the REAP GI Bill will have the option to choose which benefit best suits their need.

Edited August 28, 2008 by Hotel

[Carpetbagger]

I agree with Hotel that there is a disparity in the information. Of the information posted, the VA is saying one thing, the bills say another (and differ from each other slightly), and the signed one (from Pres. Bush) reads slightly different. The Wisconsin VA department seems to believe that reservists and guardsmen get full credit for any duty over 24 months. Very few specialties in the guard and reserve require over 24 months of training, and I believe that was the intent of the legislation. Probably 95% of all reservists won't have 24 months in training. However, as the bill reads, those few who have over 24 months of AD including training, qualify. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out when the bill becomes effective on 1 Aug 09. Here is the actual signed bill. Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2008 One brief example. If you look at the sections that describe terms of discharge, an "individual who performs xx months of service and then continues on active duty, or is discharged to serve in the reserve component" describes exactly what a TR/TG would encounter while on active duty for training. Same training, same source, same time. Less than 24 months gets you NADA. More than 24 reads differently. I may be dead wrong on this as I'm not a constitutional law attorney, but I'm going to press for it for my folks until I'm told to shut up and color. If it comes to that, hopefully my Congressman can help add some clarification. As I said before, the VA site mentions the 95% solution - only deployed contingency time counts - but also uses the term "generally" and "training" and "state callups" (title 32). I believe the key is in the + or - 24 months issue. I hope I'm right, but I may not be.

Rant switch on: Not trying to start an AD versus ARC flame war, but I find it ridiculous that a reservist who goes through 25 months of training alongside his/her AD brethren, then deploys for 23 months may get screwed by this (and get reduced benefits), while an "insert non-mobility job here" servicemember on a 48 month (or less) enlistment who has never deployed gets the full benefit. That isn't the way it was after WW2, which is what inspired this new GI Bill. If that's the case, so much for TFI. If every day spent in uniform in the service of your country counts for some, it should count for all. I think I'll write my Congressman... (switch off)

Edited August 29, 2008 by Carpetbagger

[Guest Pathwarrior]

I recently have been offered a position as Load on a C-5 with the 167th AW WVANG. I believe it to be a great opportunity, and a way to get my foot in the door with the unit my old man flew with. Now, the BULL part. I spoke with the recruiter yesterday, she advised me that as well as LM positions they also have Engineer positions open and Officer positions. I told her that I did want to become a pilot with the unit down the road, and that I interviewed with them for UPT in May. We started discussing the PPL, which I do not have, but was working on before school, etc. She told me that I could use the Montgomery GI Bill to finish my lessons for my PPL. Is this true or just typical recruiter BS? I searched all night last night and could not find any information. Since I already have my BS degree I figured I could use it for a Masters, but if using it for flying is a possibility I'd definitely consider that! Please help, I don't wanna get screwed in this deal 'cause of some woman trying to make her numbers STS. Thanks- Mike

[Marco]

Nope, GI bill will not pay for a Private Pilot's License. I have been down this road myself. It will cover costs for additional ratings AFTER PPL. The costs for the initial PPL are gonna have to come out of your pocket. There are loan options available for this as well. Good luck bro.

[Finance_Guy]

Can't remember for the life of me where I read it, but just recently (within the last few days) I read that the VA is working on the details of the various programs, and will have them in place NLT 1Aug09.

Go Here for current Info from the VA- https://www.gibill.va.gov/. You can subscribe for updates under the New GI Bill Information. I subscribed months' ago and haven't received any emails yet. I'm excited about this new GI Bill since I did have 3 years in after 9/11.

Here's a couple from the Q&A link:

Answer ID 940

Question: Can I transfer benefits to my dependents under the Post 9/11 GI BIll?

Answer: If you are a member of the Armed Forces on August 1, 2009, the Department of Defense (DoD) may offer you the opportunity to transfer benefits to your spouse or dependent children. DoD and the military services will issue policy on use of transferability in the coming months.

Answer ID 16

Question: Can the GI Bill be used to pay off student loans?

Answer: You cannot request education benefits specifically to repay a student loan. If you’re enrolled and receiving benefits, you can use your benefit payments however you choose, including student loan repayment. For more information, please use the "Ask a Question" tab above, or call 1-888-GIBILL-1 (1-888-442-4551).

[VFR800]

If I am eligible for the Montgomery GI Bill, Montgomery GI Bill- Selected Reserve, or the Reserve Educational Assistance Program, am I eligible for Post-9/11 GI Bill?

If, on August 1, 2009, you are eligible for one of these programs and you qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, you may make an irrevocable election to receive benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.

Note: Once you elect to receive benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill, you will no longer be eligible to receive benefits under the program from which you elected the Post-9/11 GI Bill.

Anyone have a clue what this means? If we're currently paying the $100/mo. for the MGIB are we just throwing money away? Is there any reason to opt into the MGIB anymore?

The FAQ says once you use the 9/11 GI Bill, then you can't get benefits from the MGIB. What about the other way around?....if you use the MGIB first? Is there any guidance on this?

[ACCBoomer]

I am stoked about this! My only question is (and I can't seem to get a good answer from the Educ folks) is the rules say that you can attend any trade school. Would one of the aviation acadimes count (ie Florida Aviation Academy, Delta Connection Academy)? Maybe I will just go be a TV weatherman.

I posed the flight school question to the VA and here was the answer I received.

Q: Can the new GI Bill be used at the larger accredited Aviation Acadimes throughout North America to obtain airline pilot training?

A: It is our understanding that you will be able to use the Post 9/11 GIBILL for flight training. However, it has not been determined as to how the benefit will pay for this training.

Thank you for contacting the VA.

LM/4351

Muskogee RPO

[Finance_Guy]

Web site to open sign-ups for Post-9/11 GI Bill transfers

by By Donna Miles https://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123155576

American Forces Press Service

6/23/2009 - WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- It's official. The Defense Department signed off June 22 on policies and procedures servicemembers will use to transfer their unused Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to their spouses or children, a Pentagon official said June 23. FULL STORY

[Guest USAFedex]

Can someone explain how to fill out the form to transfer the GI Bill to dependents?

I retire in two years and want to split the GI Bill between my 9th grader and 7th grader and wife. So for my 9th grader do I put the dates as 2013 to 2017 with 12 months of tuition? The 7th grader 2015-2019 with 12 and my wife what if I only know she wants to go to school sometime in the future?

Anyone know who to ask? I think I understand the eligibility and all.

And I can change later on right? Like my 9th grader gets a scholarship so I give it all to the 7th grader?

[kkboris]

You get 36 months of tuition, so give each kid 9 months/year desired (9 months of tuition per school year for most schools). As far as the expiration date, put the date the child turns 26 to give yourself maximum flexibility. Not sure about the wife, I haven't looked into that. You can change it later through the VA.

I just did the transfer, it took less than a week to get approved.

The GI bill website (through VA.GOV) has a lot of info, you just have to read it carefully (and often more than once) to understand it.

Great program, though. Will save me maybe 25-75k in tuition/room and board.

[disgruntledemployee]

I did it in about 20 minutes, most of the time was spent reading and understanding what I was about to do. As Boris stated, take the eligibility date out to 26 years old for the kids. And I made the start date 1 Sep 09, even though my kids are still in grade school. And, if a kid decides to go hippie join the Peace Corps, you can change the months of benefit to kid #2/3/4 (I read it, and I hope I can do so in the future).

Quote: A child’s subsequent marriage will not affect his or her eligibility to receive the educational benefit; however, after an individual has designated a child as a transferee under this section, the individual retains the right to revoke or modify the transfer at any time. Link

And get this, if someone were to divorce, they can revoke the benefit from the spouse. Thats mean, and funny, but mean... maybe.

Out

[Toro]

I was able to attend a Post 9/11 GI Bill briefing yesterday and there was some good info. Here are some highlights (some have been touched on previously):

- If you used (partially or completely) the Montgomery GI Bill, you can still benefit from the Post 9/11 Bill. If you fully used the MGIB, you can get 12 months of the 9/11 Bill and if you did not fully use the MGIB, you can transfer it over to the 9/11 Bill. Unlike the MGIB, you do not have to pay in to benefit, and you can use it if you have previously received a scholarship (such as ROTC).

- Per AF regs, you are eligible to apply after six years in service (10 if you want to transfer it to your kids) and are still on active duty.

- You will get the 100% of the following: tuition and fees equal to the most expensive in-state undergrad tuition where you attend, books and supplies stipend of up to $1000, and if you use it after you finish active duty and are in-residence (not online) you get a monthly housing allowance equal to E-5 BAH.

- Because the Bill may not cover your full tuition (for example, if you go to an expensive private school in a state where the most expensive public school tuition is significantly less), the VA offers a "Yellow Ribbon" program. This is a program where schools link up with the VA and agree to pay anywhere from 1-50% of the remaining tuition, which the VA will match (so if the school paid 50% of the remaining tuition, you would have a full free scholarship). If you are interested in the yellow ribbon program you need to go to the website to determine if you qualify. In addition, check the school's information and apply early as slots go quickly.

- You will receive 36 months of tuition and the ADSC to the Air Force will be four years.

- You can use the program for yourself, or you can designate it to one or more of your dependants. If you use it for yourself, you can use it up to 15 years after you separate/retire. If you give it to your dependants, they can use it between the ages of 18 and 26, but you must designate them before you separate/retire and before their 23rd birthday (at that time they are no longer in DEERS as dependants). You can split the 36 months between your dependants however you choose (ex: give your son 12 months, your wife 12 months, your daughter 12 months) and you can change the distribution at any time (even after you separate).

- If your dependants flunk out, you have to pay it back.

- The school where you use it must be approved by the VA, but most schools are or can easily be approved.

- Once you get all the info you need, you can apply online at www.vabenefits.vba.va.gov/vonapp/main.asp. The form you will submit is Form 22-1990.

Bottom line - unless you are planning on separating in significantly less than four years, you would be foolish not to take advantage of this. You can check here - https://www.gibill.va.gov/ for more info or talk to the folks at the Airman and Family Readiness Center.

[Jughead]

Good info--thanks, Toro.

- You will receive 36 months of tuition and the ADSC to the Air Force will be four years.

I didn't know there was an ADSC for this. Is that only to transfer to dependents? For someone who retired recently (after Aug), would they be eligible? (Not me, I'm still active duty--got a buddy who just retired and was planning to use this....)

[Toro]

I didn't know there was an ADSC for this. Is that only to transfer to dependents?

No, the ADSC is incurred however you decide to use the funds. This is why it's a good idea to enroll in the program as early as possible so you aren't having to stay in past your desired retirement or separation date. Even if you have no idea how you to want to use the money (whether you want to use it yourself or for your dependants), you can still enroll and are obligated to use it until 15 years after you separate or until your kids are college age.

For someone who retired recently (after Aug), would they be eligible? (Not me, I'm still active duty--got a buddy who just retired and was planning to use this....)

This is where it gets a little tricky. The VA regulations (the group that runs the program) are less restrictive than the Air Force, and they allow for you to use the program if you have retired as long as you weren't dishonorably discharged or anything else unfavorable. It is the AF that requires you to still be on active duty, but there are currently 'grandfather' exceptions for people like your bud who retired before the program was fully in place. Additionally, there are stipulations that you will incur a lesser ADSC if you are eligible for retirement in less than four years. I didn't follow the retirement-specific info too much since it didn't apply to me, so I would recommend going to the https://www.gibill.va.gov/ web site and seeing what you can find.

[Champ Kind]

Toro,

Did you happen to hear a definitive answer on whether or not individuals that had been previously-ineligible for the Mont. GI Bill (i.e., ROTC scholarship recipients and Academy grads) are now fully eligible for the 9/11 GI Bill?

[Toro]

Here's the VA's answer to the ADSC question. I looked it up because Toro's 3rd-hand (primary source document to ed center/VA rep to toro) mention of it was the first I had heard of an ADSC associated with the GI Bill. The only place I can find it mentioned is in relation to transferring benefits to dependents.

Right, and you may not find it on the VA website because it's not their requirement, it's the DoD's, who are (wisely, IMO) adding their own stipulations to use it as a retention tool. I've attached a talking paper regarding transferability that covers the ADSC issue as well as a little more detail on transferring to dependents. That paper is a condensed version of the official DoD memorandum which you can download from here.

Post-9-11_GI_Bill_Transferability.pdf

[Vetter]

So the ADSC of 4 years only applies if you wat to transfer the benefits to your dependents?

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

So the ADSC of 4 years only applies if you wat to transfer the benefits to your dependents?

Yes, that's what my base education office told me today.

They said that for officers, if you have fufilled your initial commissioning comittment (4 years), and have served 36 months beyond that committment, you do not incurr an additional ADSC. I also asked if a training ADSC would reset the clock (i.e. Would you have to serve an additional 36 months after the 8-10 years of ADSC incurred from UPT?), and they said no.

[Jughead]

a talking paper regarding transferability that covers the ADSC issue as well as a little more detail on transferring to dependents.

Toro, I still don't see anything that applies to the eligibility of the member himself--every place I see discussion of an ADSC, both on the website and on the doc you posted, uses it in the context of trasnferring the benefit to an eligible family member. That's been my understanding of how it works (though I have NOT researched it).

So, sorry if I'm still misunderstanding you--but I simply can't find anywhere that talks about an ADSC for a member's own use of the benefit. Indeed, the only place I see discussion of the program as a recruiting or retention tool is for (a) payment of "kickers" or (b) transferability. Is the question of an ADSC for a member's own use something you have specific info on? I think you're spot-on about anyone being in the right range of years to sign up for this--but the question is whether it even applies to guys w/o dependents (which it does not, by my reading).

[MilitaryToFinance]

Does anybody know the details about the Yellow Ribbon program for the new 9/11 GI Bill? I understand how it works but can't seem to find anywhere if that's in addition to the normal GI Bill funds or in-lieu of. For instance if I go to Darden do I get the standard GI Bill amount for a school in Virginia PLUS the Yellow Ribbon money or do I only get however much the school has agreed to as part of the Yellow Ribbon program?