Handheld GPS

[Ram]

Hey guys --

I'm pretty clueless about a lot of the GPS units available to pilots, let alone what kind of features would be specifically helpful for a military pilot. Anyone have any input?

Specific things I'm looking for include:

-Large, easily-readable, color screen

-Battery life good enough for 4-5 hours of continuous use

-Expandability

-NAVAID database to include all US TACAN/VORTAC/VOR stations and airports

-Ease of use in the backseat of the T-38

Any helpful input is a huge help. Thanks in advance, and Happy New Year.

[Guest NoseArtGal]

I would recommend the Siemens SX66 cell phone/PDA through cingular. https://communications.siemens.com/cds/fron...NrNrNrN,00.html I think it's also called the PDA2K and there are versions of it for other cell companies. It has the nice color screen, slide out keyboard, all the bells and whistles. You can throw a GPS in the expansion slot and get moving map. You can also download the database of navaids for it. We're working on a bunch of tools for this mobile/PDA on our website (although they will work on others). The phone is a bit pricey right now (about 700 bones if you buy it without a contract). But it pretty much does it all.

[Flare]

I bought a Garmin Pilot III about a year ago that I take on all of my cross countries with me...it does all that I need it to do.....and the price is reasonable. I bought mine off eBay.

[M2]

Concur with ENJJPT IP, the Street Pilot III is one of the best GPS units you can get...

Cheers! M2

[Ram]

Originally posted by MajorMadMax:

Street Pilot III is one of the best GPS units you can get...

Isn't that for ground use only? I searched eBay and found 'em, but couldn't find anything aviation about the Street Pilot III

The other one ENJJPT IP mentioned looks pretty good, but it's been discontinued. Crap. Gotta keep looking.

Another question: Most of these GPS units I've looked at (sts) mention something about a Jeppessen database. Does this include TACAN stations, Uniform freqs, and military fields? Without that stuff, this would be practically useless for me... :confused:

[Guest deweygcc]

i have an Etrex Legend by garmin. Works great for fishing I havent taken it flying yet so I cant help on that.

[M2]

It's great for IFR!

Seriously, I believe you can load any kind of chart info into it, but I will ahev to check with my bud who flies for the IRC in Switzerland, he is the 40 lb brainstem on GPS.

Cheers! M2

[Hacker]

My question is this...

What flying community has a need/use for a handheld GPS? It has no place in a fighter cockpit...I don't know anyone that uses one in a pointy-nose airplane. The one time that some guys tried to use it in an F-15E turkey shoot, they missed the target and their timing was all f*cked up.

For point-to-point navigation, I much prefer an INS (especially if it's updated by a GPS, a'la EGI) which is tons more accurate than a commercial off the shelf reciever and is all ready hooked into the ships' systems. I think a handheld GPS is great in a GA airplane, where you're only doing 100 knots anyway.

So, if you can't use a GPS to fly an instrument approach, and it isn't really useful for point-to-point navigation, what's the purpose of having one?

[Ram]

Originally posted by Hacker:

What flying community has a need/use for a handheld GPS?

I'm talking backseat ops in the T-38, as in cross country flying. No secret squirrel nav equipment, just one TACAN receiver that's serviced by contracted civilian maintenance personnel that really don't give a f*ck.

I plan on using this a LOT for flying XC, but also on the road in the car (looking for a hybrid). I agree that it's useless if you're doing anything BUT XC sorties, but that sort of thing happens pretty often in my neck of the woods (i.e: 2x's/month).

I also figured it would give me something fun to do to occupy my time while Stanley is dorking up radio calls in the backseat under the hood. (don't flame -- I'm only kidding about that last part...)

[Guest montanamattdavis]

Check out the Garmin 296. It is the best portable aviation GPS out there right now and has all the bells and whistles you could ask for. Even has terrain on it. I fly with the 196 (black and white version) and love it. Only thing wrong with it is that it is a little bit pricey ($1500).

[Guest C5Heavy]

Check this slick one iPAQ

[Ryder1587]

Hey, I got one that can be used for flying, drivin, whatever and it seems to work good. Around 170.

Etrex

[Guest thefranchise]

i used a Garmin Pilot 3 for flying and for driving. You can plum it into a PDA or laptop and use full moving map or whatever else you want.

[Champ Kind]

Do any of you have one on you (or in your bag, whatever) when you fly?

I ask because I had my final sim (Thank God!) here at Corpus today, and it was our IFR EP sim. Scenario was brought up about what if you took off at mins, got right into IMC, and then "bam", total electrical failure. WX at mins, so no visual approach. No radios, no navaids, nothing.

I threw some quick solutions on the table, but the instructor brought up an interesting point: if you were carrying a handheld GPS and/or radio with VHF or UHF capabilities, you could at least be talking to someone and/or know your position and how to get somewhere that's VFR. That idea really opened my eyes, and I'm thinking about buying one... If anything, as an insurance policy. Plus, it'd be cool to play with.

Anyway, if any of you do carry any of said equipment, or know anyone that does, what would you recommend?

[Flare]

I fly with one in the Tweet when the weather is total dogballs, or anytime when I leave the local area.

Also happened to be flying with it last week in a rental C-172 in Puerto Rico in marginal VFR conditions, when we had a complete electrical failure. Getting back to San Juan was no problem at all.

[Guest KoolKat]

Look man...here's how it plays out for your plane.

Hand -held GPS, which isn't necessary for aircraft with SCNS integrated GPS working is authorized.

In fact the reg says to carry a hand-held GPS on every mission, including local and off-station training missions. With the following exception: a local mission without passengers.

The hand-held GPS can't be used as the primary IFR navigation source.

They are restricted to operations above 10,000' AGL only, unless EMI certified, which MAJCOMS maintain a list of

"This would include KLX-100, PLGR, Garmin and Magellan GPS units."

Aircrew members must recieve training.

There is a warning about electrical problems with the KLX-100 and being sure you put the batteries in right...so that one's probably out.

Look at one of the other 3...Garmin is the only one I've seen someone use, but whateva.

BENDY

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by PhlashNU04:

but the instructor brought up an interesting point: if you were carrying a handheld GPS and/or radio with VHF or UHF capabilities, you could at least be talking to someone and/or know your position and how to get somewhere that's VFR.

That is definitely VERY Corpus. While I'm not downing on the idea, it's just typical Navy training. Brought to you by the same guys who teach the need to identify the FAF in seven different ways.

Navy training definitely has it's advantages, it really made me understand instruments, but I still chuckle when I remeber some of the "worst-case" scenarios they come up with.

I'll NEVER forget my last review stage ride where the IP gave me a dual engine failure at cruise altitude. I had to emergency descend to the airfield and after going through all of the procedures both engines finally decided to "light-off" after I hit the IAF. Then sadly due to the "power surge" when I restarted, there was a "total elictrical failure" that allowed me to roll right into the partial panel NDB (because approach's radar and radios were down, of course). And for some strange reason, I hit the FAF and "power came back online" but then naturally the number one engine decided magically decided to shit itself again. Ugh. Thankfully, the IP slacked up a smidge after that.

HD

[Ram]

I carry a handheld GPS in my g-suit pocket whenever the wx is marginal at the home drome, or whenever I'm out-n-back or XC.

First of all, there are some nasty IFR EPs in the T-38 (right gen fail w/no crossover, TR failure, etc...), and I like having some peace of mind. Secondly, I consider the GPS as a form of insurance from getting violated (sts) when Stanley can't set-up the Navaids correctly or is dorking-up the fix-to-fix. (Studs have a wonderful, magic quality of being total SA black holes...myself as a stud included.) Third, a handheld GPS has some magic flight planning and fuel planning software that can glonckulate fuel faster/more accurately than my 386-proccessor of a brain can.

It's a worthwhile investment as far as I'm concerned...especially if your aircraft is limited to vintage-1950s navaids. Professionals take pride in their equipment: Police Officers are picky about the weapons/protective gear they use to keep them safe, Professional Chefs have to use quality knives/tools to ensure their food is delicious, etc...

...why should we, as pilots, be any different?

Just one Lt's opinion...

[Ram]

By the way, I carry a Garmin 96C. It cost me about 700 bones brand new.

But if you're looking for cheap, you really don't need all the bells and whistles that mine has. Ebay also has some good deals, as well.

[Flare]

I fly with the Garmin Pilot III. It does everything that I have needed....I bought mine for $300 off eBay.

If I had unlimited cash, my dream one would be

https://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DI...D=9590&CATID=93

complete with the top-of-the line XM weather/music subscription

[Ram]

Originally posted by ENJJPT IP:

I fly with the Garmin Pilot III. It does everything that I have needed....I bought mine for $300 off eBay.

If I had unlimited cash, my dream one would be

https://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DI...D=9590&CATID=93

complete with the top-of-the line XM weather/music subscription

"2"

Although it's just about as large/heavy as a cinder block.

[HuggyU2]

In the U-2, when "on the road", most of us fly with 3-4 handhelds. Sounds like overkill, but each serves a specific purpose.

The one we use for "normal ops", and just plain navigatin' and SA is a Garmin 196. We've got some new ones, and I think they are Garmin 96C (I haven't used them).

Locally, I fly with a Garmin GPS III; old, but very effective.

Our unit bought a few, and we sign them out when needed.

We will put them in with the trainees when they go solo, and then download the plot when they return, allowing us (the IP's) to see exactly how their flight progressed. Yes, you can bust a ride based on your HHGPS plot.

They're great in the T-38, especially when VFR. Keep your destination's range in the HHGPS, and you can constantly work your Bingo and maximize your playtime.

[ 17. February 2006, 02:17: Message edited by: Huggyu2 ]

[Baseops.Net]

I concur with the Garmin 196 - excellent for SA, low levels, and highly customizable -- and it can connect to PFPS!

[TacAirCoug]

I have the 600c. You can barely see the screen (in any light) unless you have the backlight on...so battery life is an issue if you use the light a lot. I don't tend to need to look at the screen for long periods of time anyway, so I usually just click on the backlight and let it shut off on its own after a few seconds. Doing that, the battery lasts for quite a while. Other than that, the performance & user interface is top notch. With the internal antenna I have been able to get a good signal inside my house. I have never used the Garmin so I can't compare, but I would definitely recommend the Lowrance.

[Guest jkfaust]

I've got a 96C and am very happy with it. Its the only one I have ever used, so I'm not expert, but it doesn't lack anything I need.