The Foglesong Thread

[PolyestherDuck]

I never spent time in USAFE but some of the folks in my office did. We sat around today and they told stories about "He who should not be named." Hence the reason I mispelled his name.

I heard about 6 or 7 absolutely outlandish stories. Can they really be true?

Apparently this fellow got angry because he had ordered his commercial to be played every 45 minutes on AFRTS. While watching TV one day, he realized it had gone longer than 45 minutes with no commercial. He went nuclear and demanded to know why. Well, PA tracked it down and informed him it wasn't on the Euro AFRTS channel, but rather the Pacific AFRTS channel. He then instructed PA to contact PACOM and get them to air his commercial. Apparently the general at PACOM refused and he went through the roof.

Also heard he blew through execs every 90 to 120 days. 20 hour days for the execs as he wanted his computer screen configured in a certain manner each morning with the topics he would have to review that day and he wouldn't leave until 10PM at night. The execs would then have to arrange his computer for the next day prior to his arrival at 5AM.

Truth? Fiction?

Edited September 4, 2009 by Disco

[Guest Boom]

I remember being deployed to Ali Al Salem in '05 and the day he retired AFN threw all of his commericals off the air instantly.

I think he recently "resigned" from being the Dean at Mississippi State because he found out you can't order 20 year old college kids around and paint the campus brown without them telling him to off.

The one commercial that sticks out in my mind is when he goes to ENJPT and says, "[hick accent]Hi, I'm Doc Foglesong here at Euro Nato Jet Pilot Training.[/hick accent]" Then it goes to show a student and IP taxiing in a T-38 for like 10 seconds and then the "USAFE: Combat Proud" sign comes on. It was sorta like a wookie, it just didn't make sense.

[Toro]

I heard about 6 or 7 absolutely outlandish stories. Can they really be true?

Not only yes, but hell yes. As the USAFE/CC, he was most famous (despised) for his anal-retentive quirks, his constantly played AFN commercials with him in his speed-jeans, and his "Combat" programs. The combat programs simply took regular things like cleaning up the base (Combat Proud) and checking out library books (Combat Read), and attempted to give them some sort of ridiculous warrior spin - all from a guy who had ZERO combat flight time. His decorations make him look like a shoe clerk's wet dream (nary an air medal to be found).

My personal favorite story is when he decided he wanted a front seat F-15E ride from one of the Lakenheath squadrons. Even though the guy was not allowed to fly his own jet (F-16) without an instructor in chase, and even though we have Senior Officer Courses that take at least a month to get GOs qualified, and even though everybody from the guy who gave him the flight (a highly experienced TPS grad SEFE) to the OG/CC thought it was a bad idea, nobody had the stones to tell him to screw off because of how he would surely react. Ironically, had something safety related happened on the flight, I believe everybody from the pilot up through and to Doc himself would have been fired.

There have been quite a few threads about him - generally with the "Why does everybody hate this guy?" question asked. So here are the links of what we've seen so far with a brief summary and some zinger quotes.

Doc to Get the Order of the Sword - Amidst speculation that votes were changed, discounted, or altered ("There actually was a vote on this thing among enlisted people and from what I heard when it happened they were "encouraged" to vote yes, but most voted no.") Doc received the highest honor bestowed by the enlisted corps. This while - almost literally - everybody in USAFE despised him.

"Hey the USAFE Command Chief is Gary Coleman!"

"Foglesong is a douche-bag of the highest order (and not the Order of the Sword, either) from everything that I've seen/heard. A sqdn-mate of mine said that when Fogey was his CC (don't remember when/what command) he put out a base-wide (command-wide?) order prohibiting cursing."

"We did a search for ol' Doc's combat hours...our newest A1C load had more combat time...meaning any time"

Another Doc 'F' story - Doc dresses up like Santa circa 2000 to greet people at MHAFB. He apparently did no coordination and went through the roof when SFS didn't recognize him. He likes to shut down active runways (DM and Ramstein) to jog on them.

He's a whack job.

Fogeldork

there's some sorta screw loose in this dude

Bye Bye Doc! - Article of Doc's replacement, and the future of sanity being restored to USAFE.

"He's earned a break from the combat rigors of being Combat Proud on the Combat Flightline, while driving all the USAFE personnel combat crazy and driving the combat budget into the combat red. I Combat Care deeply and am Combat Touched that he wants to start his own Project Wizard back home... perhaps he can attend some combat football games and start another Project Cheer!"

"It's official: Doc's a Douche."

Thanksgiving Day Message from Doc - Lame Turkey message to USAFE

Doc Foglesong can tongue my chode.

I, too, hope everyone enjoys their COMBAT TURKEY this Thanksgiving.

Doc can go eat a bowl of COMBAT DICK.

Fogelnuts, on the other hand, is a complete and utter asshole through and through, and the fact that the zero hours of combat assclown ever made it past major (much less to GO rank) typifies what is completely wrong about the USAF today.

FRE-E-DOM! - Doc finally leaves USAFE and there was much rejoicing

Ding! Dong! The asshole's gone!

Congrats, USAFE! Thanks for the memories and the enlarged Poop-Chute.

Eat a fat dick, Doc!

F*** off and die, Fogeldouche.

Say Goodbye to "Combat Bulldog" - After retiring from the USAF, Doc went to be the president of MSU. M2 put it best - "He was a prick at USAFE, and I am sure it all carried over to Miss State. Unfortunately, what he probably failed to realize was that there they could go tell him to 'fuck off!'"

I wonder if the students at MSU will be as happy to see him go as all the folks in USAFE were.

It sounds like Combat University didn't work out to well.

So, now everyone realizes he's crazy; always was, always will be.....

He's on Wikipedia - anybody can add to it. Maybe a link to this thread? 'Course, I'm sure he's got an exec to check the site daily for cyber-graffiti.

Here's to Doc

Go F*** yourself

I'm waiting for M2 to chime in ASAPly...

[Guest Boom]

Doc to Get the Order of the Sword - Amidst speculation that votes were changed, discounted, or altered ("There actually was a vote on this thing among enlisted people and from what I heard when it happened they were "encouraged" to vote yes, but most voted no.") Doc received the highest honor bestowed by the enlisted corps. This while - almost literally - everybody in USAFE despised him.

"Hey the USAFE Command Chief is Gary Coleman!"

"Foglesong is a douche-bag of the highest order (and not the Order of the Sword, either) from everything that I've seen/heard. A sqdn-mate of mine said that when Fogey was his CC (don't remember when/what command) he put out a base-wide (command-wide?) order prohibiting cursing."

"We did a search for ol' Doc's combat hours...our newest A1C load had more combat time...meaning any time"

That award is now a ing joke. Every single 4-Star that retires gets the Order of the Sword, even if they were a douche or not. "Doc" is a perfect example.

[lloyd christmas]

I remember having to taller tap the vans at Ramstein. And you could not mix the maintainers green vans and the ops blue vans in the parking lots. Also had to have the ropes that were attached to the chocks tied in a bowtie in front of the tire.

[PolyestherDuck]

I remember having to taller tap the vans at Ramstein. And you could not mix the maintainers green vans and the ops blue vans in the parking lots. Also had to have the ropes that were attached to the chocks tied in a bowtie in front of the tire.

WTF over? A bowtie? He clearly should have instructed a square knot.

[brickhistory]

May it please the court, I am forced to ask when this 'person' could have logged combat time?

He didn't graduate UPT until 1973 and was sent to T-41s (question, is that indicative of anything?). I'm guessing a FNG out of training doesn't get a say in his first assignment once it's made or his class ranking is final. So he didn't (couldn't) get into Vietnam as it was winding down by then - RTU to ops to combat probably would have taken too long before the end in '75.

The only other 'war' during his career that would have involved his type jet flown at the time of conflict was Desert Storm when he was assigned to the Pentagon just as the shooting part kicked off.

Members of the jury, I am not defending this 'thing,' but is this one charge that can be untrue?

However, the evidence is overwhelming of him not being human.

------------------------------------------------Separate but related thread drift----------------------------------------------------

The question was asked early on "How do guys like this get promoted?"

Early on, he seemed to specialize in exec/special assistant. Worked that all the way to wing command. Ok, sucks, but that's the game.

Now, my question is, how/why did the GO's club let him in after he made O-6?

What and when is the 'nod' given or earned?

For examply, CH said of the recently deceased 3WG/CC that he acted a like a good dude even though he knew he'd be a GO. Ok, being the exec for the 'man' is traditionally one usually surefire way to get there , but to get that gig, he couldn't have been a slouch. So, when along the way is talent really either noticed or steered? Or conversely, when is douch-i-ness noticed/rewarded like in 'it's' case?

Knowing the rules of the game is always useful, I think.

[M2]

I think everyone is well aware of my thoughts on said douchebag! And I was lucky as during his tenure at Ramstein, I was working at SHAPE so I wasn't directly affected by his assnozzleness except the continuous AFN commercials. However, real good bros like Linda were experiencing Doc firsthand, and anytime I run into someone who has scars from direct contact with Doc on them, I buy them a beer. They earned it!

When I got to Belgium in 2002, it was the CG at USAREUR (B.B. Bell) who was considered the theater ass clown because of his dorky commercials on AFN. Then Doc arrived and the game was over. Actually, Bell turned out to be quite a good dude, he came to my son's first grade class and read a book to them. I saw the entire AFN taping of it as I knew some of the folks that worked there, and B.B. was joking and messing around with the kids having a grand old time. I have no gripes with anyone who likes kids and/or dogs.

Doc, on the other hand, was well hated and despised by the US staff at SHAPE, and most of the allies. He made it embarrassing to wear the same uniform (but at least we had shoulders), and he caused a lot of headaches for the Americans. I honestly think if the SACEUR/COMEUCOM could have gotten rid of him, he would have. Remember that fat ass sitting on a Harley in his Village People leather chaps, and Doc saying "when you strap on this rocket..."? What a laugh! And the barbed-wire Christmas wreaths, where his wife showed him up so he had to make another commercial to prove he was a bigger man than she was!?! If anything, he did provide comic relieve to the theater, as anytime he came out with a new commercial (about 3-4 times a month), it was the topic of discussion all over!

I also recall a story that some guy at Ramstein came back from an extended deployment and dropped by his office late at night. He left the lights on when he departed and the next day he was called onto the carpet by Doc for it. A real nice “welcome home,” but par for the course.

Bottom line, if I were in a room with Osama bin Laden and Doc, and had a gun with two bullets in it, I would shot Doc twice! I was lucky as I served under two USAFE commanders who were worth their salt, Gen Mike Ryan and Gen J.J. Jumper.

Cheers! M2

[FourFans]

Bottom line, if I were in a room with Osama bin Laden and Doc, and had a gun with two bullets in it, I would shot Doc twice!

Sounds like that just about sums up all I needed to ever know about this "thing."

[JS]

I may have posted this before, but....

I went to a Mississippi State football game and after the national anthem comes Doc in some radial/piston old taildragger aircraft (can't remember the type). They hyped it up pretty big on the loudspeaker that he would be doing the flyover and all. The problem was this is what you heard:

"Oh say does that star NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...of the brave"

As a matter of fact, it even made youtube:

[MilitaryToFinance]

Apparently the students didn't like him much, from that youtube video comments sections.

I'm a student at MSU and I always hoped Foglesong would crash when he did that shit.

[M2]

Harvick1 (8 months ago) - Surprised it didn't spray the field with pesticide as it flew by!

bamafanatic30 (8 months ago) - The president's wife shutdown the concession stand when he flew over so she could watch..

Classic!

Cheers! M2

[Check 6]

Yea, I miss Doc, Mrs. Doc, and "Old triple 7" on AFN at Christmas.

NOT

[Guest evil load]

Was out really early on duty crew during a JF/JE rotation. Looking out the window of the old ops bldg and to my surprise, a bunch of airmen wearing blues raking leaves out of the trees. I guess Doc did not want any leaves falling on his combat sidewalk.

[USAF Pirate]

End of this video has a great tribute to Doc Foglesong.

Edited July 30, 2008 by USAFJosh

[drewpey]

He's on Wikipedia - anybody can add to it. Maybe a link to this thread? 'Course, I'm sure he's got an exec to check the site daily for cyber-graffiti.

Yeah, he can change it all he wants, however the history is always there...

Looks like some things never change! Some gems from his wikihistory...

He is also currently engaged in suppressing the academic freedom of the school of architecture. In which he id dictating the color scheme and layout of the design area. He is responsible for the indiscriminate wasting of university funds by renting statues and demanding the removal of aesthetically pleasing beds of daffodils. Meanwhile he has refused to replace departing faculity with anything more than adjunct professors, resulting in a lowering of acidemic standards at Mississippi State University. Unfortunately the various departents have had to resort to the reheiring of senild retired professors in order to provide instructors for all the classes they are required to offer. Meanwhile due to his extreem waste of money and other university resources the buildings at Mississippi state go unheated for most of the winter and uncooled for most of the summer. The parking lots are dark at night leaving the female members of the university afraid and in the dark. Despite his waste of money Doc is demanding the IHL raise tuition in order to bring more money under his control. A classic example of his waste of money is the employment of an individual to reedit this very page in order to suppress any disparaging comments.

* 1968 Bachelor of Science degree in chemical engineering, West Virginia University

* 1969 Master of Science degree in chemical engineering, West Virginia University

* 1971 Doctor of Philosophy in chemical engineering, West Virginia University

Note these all come from a state known for inbreeding and moonshine

He is currently on a vendetta to corrupt campus life at Mississippi State University. Whether it be a grim dislike of the Greek Community, a hatred of alumni- donated daffodils, or an attempt to shut down the famous Giles School of Architecture, "Doc" Foglesong will not rest until his dream of true tyranny is realized on the MSU campus. Also well known for renting of sculptures to impress Phi betta kappa visitors and the consistant replanting of flowerbeds on the campus, while complaning about the lack of funds and therefore demanding a rase in tuition. The most noticable effect of his "leadership" has been declining standards in faculty as he has run those capable of teaching to other institutions while replacing them with low grade adjunct professors and senile retirees.

Foglesong is currently the President of Mississippi State University where he has encountered opposition from students and faculty. They feel that he has instilled a policy of disrespect for not only students but also faculty and that he has encouraged the use of propoganda.[1][2] [3] [4]

(EDIT: bonus links in the last quote...more hilarity there)

Never had the displeasure of dealing with him, hope I never do.

[MT near]

Shame he is from WV....not a bad state really.

[Guest fourtenwedge]

Note these all come from a state known for inbreeding and moonshine

Easy now, don't start lumping inbreeding and moonshine in the same category. My grandpa makes a good moonshine and I swear I'm not inbred. Though being from rural Missouri I'm fairly certain that some of my relatives are.

[Container STS]

Wow this guy was an ass! I heard mumblings but never this stuff....good thread!

[Toro]

Let me expand on one of his "Combat" programs.

Most of Doc's combat programs were confined to Ramstein (poor, poor M2 and Linda). One of the programs that had MAJCOM reach was Combat Nighthawk. This 'pilot' (yes I use that term loosely) thought it would be a good idea to educate to general USAF populace about the the USAF role. Good in theory - right? Yeah man, send them to the ops squadrons, RAPCON, and MX to see how me do things?

Negatron.

Doc Douche-pump decided that it was critical to our mission to educate people on how things like the chow hall, hospital, and enlisted dorms worked. No shit. Even worse was the fact that (as the name suggested) it carried into the wee hours of the night and therefore killed aircrew's crew rest. It started at 1900 with 2 officers and 2 NCOs who would walk around the base and visit facilities like the chow hall, airman's dorms, SFS, and hospital. The schedule ended at 0000 and it didn't matter if you had been at work since 0600.

When I got tagged for this pleasure - as the SRO - I shitcanned the schedule and took my three visitors (Lt, MSgt, and SrA) to the tower (night flying), RAPCON, and flying squadrons to show them how the real AF operates. All of them learned more about the operational USAF in those three hours than Doc could have ever imparted in any lame AFN commercial.

When Doc dies, M2 and I are going to dig him up, burn his body in effigy ("Fuck that I say we burn him right here!") and kick the ashes into a cesspool.

[M2]

Shame he is from WV....not a bad state really.

Agreed, have done several motorcycle trips through there and found the residents to be friendly and the scenery to be beautiful! At least they were smart enough to get rid of the old fart! Notice he didn't go back there after the Air Force, despite his use of 'Mingo'...

Cheers! M2

[Guest DarkWatch]

I had the extreme misfortune of being under his command when he was wing CC at Columbus, when he was at Osan, when he was the 12AF CC and dealt with him when he reached the pinnacle of his insanity when he was at Ramstein.

I'll save the stories of his stupidity, but suffice it to say that if I ever say his name outloud, I spit on the ground.

If I had known he was at MSU, when I drove by there a year ago I would have gone into his office and punched him in the throat.

[HercDude]

As I understand it he now spends his free time in theatre balconies heckling comedic bears.

[Guest Tracy]

I’m sorry that I missed this website. Just last night, I found out from a colleague that Doc was “canned” from MSU. Doc--Good riddance, hope the door didn’t hit you on the way out. MSU is much better off without you. Good thing you left without damaging too much.

I was an officer who served under Doc Foglesong at Columbus AFB when he was there in 1993. Doc Foglesong IS an idiot. For the short time he was there, he nearly ruined Columbus AFB. He made a lot of great people retire. They weren’t going to put up with his crap. For example, Dr. Mary Alexander at MSU was one of the ones who called it quits as a Lt Col when she was Doc’s executive officer at Columbus in the 1990’s. She was chosen as the Executive Officer under the previous commander…a great man…a great leader…whom I respect and took up for when Doc talked bad about him…(ret) Colonel Nick P. Ardillo, Jr. Doc didn’t like me taking-up for Colonel Ardillo. I found it amazing that Mary survived him at MSU.

Doc almost ran off the long-time “senior” Wing Commander’s secretary…”Ms Thelgy”. I remember her telling me about Doc “it’s not a matter of how long the storm will last, but how much damage it will do along the way”. She was referring to Doc’s time at Columbus AFB, and all the damage he was doing. We all knew he was short-lived, only “filling a square” under Gen McPeak, another idiot who ruined the Air Force while he was Chef of Staff. I recall Doc was at Columbus for about 9 months, a very short tour for any commander.

Doc would call meetings on Sunday, yes Sunday, and have his commander’s wait in his waiting area for over an hour. He would come out of the office about every 20 minutes and just look over there and say “now, what was our meeting all about?, oh yeah, that’s right, I’ll be with you in a minute”. When we finally got in to see him, he took 30 SECONDS to say what he wanted to say and dismissed us. What a moron.

He would call commander’s at 4am to tell them they had an unauthorized tobacco “butt can” in front of their building and they need to remove it NOW. He also did the same for a single light being left on in an aircraft hanger. All times of the night, he rode around the base making calls to people. So it didn’t surprise me when I read about all the stupid things he did at MSU.

Doc would befriend the resource commander (known as “FM”—financial management) on base because this was the person who controlled ALL the money. Doc would have funds switched from one account over to another; whatever Doc wanted, DOC got. He would call the resource commander at 5am and talk to him about ideas he had for money. What an idiot.

Doc had his secretary call me up, and she would say “Colonel Foglesong wants you to meet him outside, he will come by and pick you up in his staff car”. I would stand outside in the 100-degree humid heat and he would drive around the base within 150 yards of me, see me, but not picking me up. This was his way of controlling people. About 30 minutes later, after I was drenched in sweat, he would pick me up and try to convince me to back him up on a crazy idea of moving some money around “for one of his projects”. Until I said, “yes, ok, fine, I agree, I’ll back you up”, I wasn’t getting out of his staff car. He would ride around in circles on the airfield until I agreed with his crazy idea. I argued as long as I could and yes, I gave good justification, but he wouldn’t listen. Doc’s a nut.

Doc would “hangout” with the lowest ranking Airmen, to “snoop around” and find out what was happening in a squadron. He befriended them so much that it was difficult to get those Airmen to do anything, since “they had Doc on their side”. This was against good military law and order. For years after he made general, he did this same thing; after-hours, he would jog around a (visited) base and stop by the dorms or a work place to talk to the Airmen, Doc’s way of micro-managing any commander he could. I am sure that he would interact with the MSU students, just like he did the Airmen. Like the Airman, I’m sure they liked it. Doc probably had an open-door policy with a few students who gave him advice. I could’ve told you that he wasn’t going to interact with the MSU faculty or staff, because he doesn’t want to hear the truth or ANY others ideas from his colleagues.

Doc Foglesong never listened to his commanders, unless it was the two that he brought onto the base. He normally had two or three “followers” with him, when he arrived. Without them, he had no cheerleaders. As one of his Captain executive officer’s once told me, “as high ranking as he is, surprisingly, he has little self-confidence”. The executive officer went on to say, Doc was “too young to lead, and too arrogant to listen to his best people”. Good leaders surround themselves with good people, and listen to their people. Being a fighter pilot is not an excuse for his demeanor. He is in a league, all his own.

At Columbus, I had a co-worker who got a bland rating on his promotion recommendation form (PRF), and Foglesong would not talk to him about it. The Captain got a “Promote” instead of a Definitely Promote”. Doc was REQUIRED to explain (give feedback) why he was rated the way he was, or at least talk to him, explain or answer his questions or concerns, but Doc kept canceling the appointment with the Captain, and finally left the word with the Captain’s boss that “I don’t want to talk to him, and tell him to Stop calling my office!” The Captain's outstanding record promoted the Captain to Major.

In Doc’s replies concerning the MSU complaints about him, I noticed that he didn’t even address the actual complaints. Doc loves to avoid the truth. Instead, he danced around with some weird quotes that he probably copied off the Internet.

At the Change of Command ceremony, when Doc was leaving Columbus. He never once addressed the hundreds of troops standing in a parade on the hot and humid flight line. Instead, he turned his back on them and addressed the Columbus mayor and DV’s on the stand behind the podium…how sad. He never mentioned all of the accomplishments of the troops or thanked them. Every “good” commander addresses the troops when he departs. When his wife Mary kissed him, he acted like a Hollywood actor by wiping off his face as though he had a pile of slobber on it. In front of hundreds, Doc disrespected Mary.

After he left Columbus AFB Mississippi, Doc went on to ruin Osan AB South Korea. For the first time, he made a curfew for being off base. In disbelief, the merchants and people of the local community protested. He was good at making a mountain out of a molehill. In order to get his way, he would exaggerate a problem. He built gun revetments all over the place at Osan, making it look like a war zone. Never before, had I seen a place be built up so fast. Yet, nothing militarily or socially had changed. It was all in his head. It was Doc trying to make himself look like a Combat hero.

Combat Time? At Columbus, Doc would give speeches and talks about combat time, like he had hours of combat experience. He would say “in combat, you must…….”. In his speeches, he led us to believe he had combat time. So in 1993, we went to his official flight records folder in the OSS and saw NO COMBAT time. No combat time in the F-16, and actually and for someone of his rank, his flying hours in the F-16 were really low. He was a staffer, and a square-filler. If he retired with combat time, it was far after he had pinned on Brigadier General. And Doc was not seen as one to put his life on the line for anyone. Doc was all about himself.

Copy-cat. On Doc’s website https://www.alefwv.com/founder.htm, (The Appalachian Leadership and Education Foundation (ALEF)) Doc directly plagiarizes a quote from the USAF…Our promise to ourselves and to our Fellows is to commit to “integrity, service before self and excellence in all we do”. The last part is directly from the USAF posters, official documents, and advertisement. Doesn’t an educator know about the consequences of plagiarism?

You, Doc Foglesong, have ruined a lot of lives. Your way--or the highway, well hit the highway. Yes, go back to West Virginia, go put your big head in a coalmine, and don’t come out. You’re no leader, you’re a dictator. You’re an IDIOT.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Tracy

[Toro]

^

|

Wow.

And that, ladies and gentleman, is why this thread was started.

Tracy, if we ever meet in person, I've got your drinks all night.

More Doc hatin'.