The Foglesong Thread

[Toro]

I happened to role over to Wikipedia to check out his site and it would seem that some Baseopers have been taking great liberties. And I quote (before it gets removed)...

Foglesong attained the rank of four-star general (which was plagued with controversy) in the United States Air Force, retiring from active duty after 33 years of service.

Attained 5th-level Duche-Mange with Firerod's and Dragon's Breath Staff COMPLETELY on his own.

Praise! He is loved

<<snip out news article from MSU detailing what an idiot he was as president>>

He is Praised!

"We did a search for ol' Doc's combat hours...our newest A1C load had more combat time...meaning any time"

He is Praised!

I wonder if the students at MSU will be as happy to see him go as all the folks in USAFE were. It sounds like Combat University didn't work out to well.

You guys are awesome.

[Guest SATCOM]

In the 80's he did a short tour at Homestead AFB. I was a SSgt, USAF ATC in the tower. We'd see him running along the flightline and carrying the infamous "brick" from the old school days (this denoted importance in the USAF). One Sunday I was working the day shift and we get a call from Command Post. Evidently we left the rotating beacon on, and Doc saw this as he was running...feverishly calling the CP and having them tell us that it was a waste of USAF resources to have the beacon on one hour after sunrise. It wasn't as though they called and said "Hey tower, you left the beacon on", they had to demean us and make the point that Doc had called and we better comply immediately. As they are on the phone with my flight data troop, I scan the entire base, lo and behold the bomb dump had about 300 huge lights on, the flightline lights were still blazing and the fire department was lit up like Xmas. Now Doc was running along the flightline, so he had to see these lights. I asked the CP if they were advised by him to call the bomb dump, FD and the folks responsible for the ramp lights, to which they replied NO. First thing I did was turn the beacon off, then told the CP to professionally advise the Doc that tower advises the ramp lights, fire department and bomb dump are still lit. As he's running underneath the ramp lamps, shining down on a ramp full of F-4's and F-16's, he puts the brick to his ear, then looks up over his head, and sees the lights......stares at them, in disbelief. He ran the entire length of the flightline towards the tower and never saw those lights, but from afar witnessed the green/white beacon on the tower. Doc had some situational awareness.

[Guest Technique only]

Let me expand on one of his "Combat" programs.

Most of Doc's combat programs were confined to Ramstein (poor, poor M2 and Linda). One of the programs that had MAJCOM reach was Combat Nighthawk. This 'pilot' (yes I use that term loosely) thought it would be a good idea to educate to general USAF populace about the the USAF role. Good in theory - right? Yeah man, send them to the ops squadrons, RAPCON, and MX to see how me do things?

Negatron.

Doc Douche-pump decided that it was critical to our mission to educate people on how things like the chow hall, hospital, and enlisted dorms worked. No shit. Even worse was the fact that (as the name suggested) it carried into the wee hours of the night and therefore killed aircrew's crew rest. It started at 1900 with 2 officers and 2 NCOs who would walk around the base and visit facilities like the chow hall, airman's dorms, SFS, and hospital. The schedule ended at 0000 and it didn't matter if you had been at work since 0600.

When I got tagged for this pleasure - as the SRO - I shitcanned the schedule and took my three visitors (Lt, MSgt, and SrA) to the tower (night flying), RAPCON, and flying squadrons to show them how the real AF operates. All of them learned more about the operational USAF in those three hours than Doc cock-gobbler could have ever imparted in any faggity AFN commercial.

When Doc dies, M2 and I are going to dig him up, burn his body in effigy ("###### that I say we burn him right here!") and kick the ashes into a cesspool.

I was lucky enough to get to Ramstein after Doc's time but the stink was definitely still there in the form of his combat programs. Combat Nighthawk was part of my inprocessing and was a total waste. I can't imagine how folks got by when Doc was running the show out here.

[VL-16]

From his website..."Hobbies include...collecting slide rules, collecting potato mashers...." What a f*cking nutcase. I never served under this guy and even I want to kick him in his throat.

[Hacker]

Tracy -

Please, please, tell us more. That is quite possibly the best post I've read in the last 5 years on Baseops.

[Guest Tracy]

Hacker and Others,

Don't you worry, I will be back with many other TRUTHS about Doc.

Doc will certainly recognize my name, because that is my real "nick" name.

Tracy

Right Doc? I know you are Googling yourself!! And reading this...here's to you pal!!!!

I'll be back...

[Champ Kind]

Tracy = Doc's illegitimate son?

[Toro]

Doc Foglesong (along with a lot of other AF leadership these days) embodies the Peter Principle.

The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain. Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".

How he got to USAFE/CC is beyond me, but we can thank the Peter Principle for not allowing our fears of Doc as Chief of Staff to come true.

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

Regarding Doc's craptacular Fruit Salad:

MAJOR AWARDS AND DECORATIONS

Defense Distinguished Service Medal

Distinguished Service Medal

Defense Superior Service Medal

Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster

Meritorious Service Medal with three oak leaf clusters

Aerial Achievement Medal with two oak leaf clusters

Air Force Commendation Medal with two oak leaf clusters

Air Force Achievement Medal

Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal

Korean National Security Medal (Samil)

Korean National Security Medal (Cheon-Su)

Medalla De Oro por Servicio Distinguido, El Salvador (Gold Medal for Distinguished Service)

Mérito Aeronáutico, Uruguay (Aeronautical Merit)

Mérito Aeronáutico, Bolivia

Cruz de la Fuerza Aérea, Colombia (Air Force Cross, Great Cross category)

Cruz de las Fuerzas Armadas, Honduras (Armed Forces Cross)

Cruz de la Fuerza Aérea, Guatemala

Cruz Peruana al Mérito Aeronáutico, clase Gran Cruz, Perú (Peruvian Cross of Aeronautical Merit, Great Cross category)

La Medalla Legion al Mérito Confraternidad Aérea Interamericana (Legion of Merit, System of Cooperation Among the American Air Forces, SICOFAA)

Others have mentioned his nearly complete lack of flying medals.

He also has absolutely no unit awards; way to take care of your people! If he does have them, then he doesn't care enough to wear them.

Most, telling, you'll note the bottom 8 awards are from Latin American militaries. This makes up more than 40% of his rack, and there's a story behind them. They stem from his 1 year tour as 12AF/CC, which is dual hatted as AFSOUTH. I'm friends with the poor SOB who was his Exec (and survived the nearly the entire time he was there). It turns out Doc didn't even bother to visit these countries. Towards the end of his tour he had his Exec contact these country's Air Forces and 'persuaded' them to give him an award! They were sent in the mail.

Furthermore, when Doc arrived at DM my friend was the Exec for another general. Doc found out he was good officer with an up-and-coming career, so he took him for himself. He had orders to attend ACSC in-residence, which Doc turned off. At the end of Doc's tour, he forgot about taking care of his Exec, who thanks to Doc's perpetual abuse didn't finish ACSC in time. Had Doc not anally raped his career, he'd be at least a Colonel today. Instead he's retiring as a Major.

This man made an absolute mockery of Integrity, Service, and Excellence. His values were/are Immoral, Selfishness, and Douchbaggery.

[Toro]

Most, telling, you'll note the bottom 8 awards are from Latin American militaries.

Copy Mexican General.

Will somebody please update Wikipedia?

[Butters]

Copy Mexican General.

Will somebody please update Wikipedia?

If I see that picture on Wikipedia, I will probably crap myself!!

I will send a bottle of Soju to anyone that does it!

If you do not know what Soju is I recommend you keep it that way.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

I've already noticed that Wikipedia has been tweaked...looks as if "someone" took off his AF pic because it disgraces the uniform we wear. Othere changes are also evident. The pic above will soon be on the site....promised.

Tracy, I feel your pain. I was at ETAR for too long while that guy was there. Eventually, I was his C-21 "bitch" pilot (Linda knows my pain). Too many stories to tell...

- unfortunately have over 100 hours as the "A" code w/ that nut.

1.) He cannot sing Lynard Skynard - even after 2 beers at Lakenheath post Excaliber exercise.

2.) He stands on a box next to Coleman...yep, seen it, flew it.

3.) Helped Q-3 a guy for not having the C-21 de-iced prior to takeoff....mind be it it was a blizzard.

4.) A buddy of mine who played at MSU saw him trip a break his leg while running....instantly went nuts on safety related things at MSU and tried to bring in the AF color scheme.

5.) Was original backer of the Ramstein hotel complex debacle

6.) Planted $3M, (yes million) worth of shrubery for the presidents arrival - yet, GW never left the tarmac (this is when the CDC and SFS folks were gasping for money)

7.) Mary Foglesong has an "in" with Rumsfeld (i.e., they are related by marriage). Doc talks alot after 2 beers (see #1)

8.) Nearly got shot at in Uganda trying to cross a restricted zone.

9.) Made folks rake leaves in the Ramstein forest....yes, folks, a forest!!!

Also, for the record....he DOES have Combat time. He flew on the NATO AWACS down to Pristina (Kosovo) during a NATO exercise...logged around 4 hours for the sortie. As well, let that piss you off!!!

Edited August 8, 2008 by C-21 Pilot

[bfargin]

Had Doc not anally raped his career, he'd be at least a Colonel today. Instead he's retiring as a Major.

Each post has pissed me off a little more but this one was my limit. Man that dude deserves a serious throttling. I wish one of the senior generals when he was making his way up the ranks had stomped him back down to where he belonged. After reading all of the posts (and even if only half of what has been written is true - not implying anybody lied or exaggerated) ole Doc made it several steps above where the peter principle said he should have ended up. What a jerk off!!!

[Guest Tracy]

Illegitimate son? Well, dad, “SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND”

Yes, I certainly want him to recognize my name.

He did everything he could to NOT promote me when I was the #1 DP chosen from the OG. When I got my “P”, the OG was royally pissed; he slammed his fist on the table and pointed his finger toward the Wing Headquarters Bldg. Doc’s Executive Officer and the OG/CC told me the entire story. The OG told me the story while Doc was still there, and the Exec told me after Doc left. Doc was good about changing DP's around, just to let the Group CC's know who was in-charge. He did it just to intimidate them. He’d give the most unheard of person a DP. Well, I got promoted anyway. A lot of really good people didn’t get promoted. He promoted one (unsuspecting) guy to Colonel, and he retired without pinning it on. When he got the DP, we all said “SAY WHAT?! We think Doc did it just to piss off all the other eligibles.

After Doc left as Wing CC, I worked in the Wing Staff office and was able to gain access to many-many files left behind by Doc, a huge trail of notes left by the former Exec…three draws full of them and all the other files in the office areas. Notes from Group CC’s to/from Doc. Lots of Post It Notes and memos on folders and PRFs. Man, it was like I had Doc’s personal files in front of me. What a gold mine. A lot of people got screwed. A friend/neighbor of mine at the hospital was not promoted to Lt Col and had to get out with 17 years. And if I could locate him, I would (now) tell him the real reason why. It was SHOCKING and SAD to read all the notes. Most people kept the notes to cover themselves, i.e. an IG Investigation.

Like I said before, I was stationed with Doc when he was a Colonel. Then about 8-10 years later when he was a three-button, I was stationed at another base when Doc planned an overnight trip there. At that time, he was the AF/CC at DM. At the Wing Staff meeting, the Wing CC asked if anyone knew Lt Gen Foglesong, and I raised my hand. (The Wing CC already knew about my events with Doc). And he said, “Tracy, you need to be out on the DV mat to greet him when he arrives”. Man, I couldn’t wait. I wanted this bastard to see that I was still in the AF and not under HIS control. I wanted so bad to look him in the eye and shake his hand as hard as I could and grin “see, I’m still here”.

So when Doc arrived, Doc went thru the line-up shaking hands down the line and he cut a slight eye at me and STOPPED at the Colonel standing next to me, turned and walked away. There were about four MORE people in the line; and he blew all the others off because of me. He wasn’t about to cross my path in-line. He wasn’t brave enough for that. The bastard knew he had done me wrong and wasn’t about to look me in the eye. I was the one at his former base who would fight him on issues when he was a Colonel, and I was still in uniform. When Doc stopped shaking hands, ALL the Colonels turned 90 degrees and looked at me with that deer-in-the-headlights-look…huuuhhhh. After Doc left, they said “man, you’re right, he sure doesn’t like you…he IS a jerk.” While waiting in front of Base Ops, I had already explained to them all what an ass he is; now Doc proved my point to them. Way to go Doc! The stock in all my stories about you went WAY UP. Now they all know. What a whimp, he couldn’t even face me.

Just like he couldn’t face the students or faculty at MSU. He blocked their ability to reply to emails after he sent RUDE emails to many of them at MSU.

I’ve never seen a man reach such a rank, while being such a coward. He was promoted only because of McPeak…who is just like Doc.

More later, stay tuned,

Tracy

[Hacker]

You are my hero, Tracy. Flame on.

[PaddyPilot]

Attained 5th-level Duche-Mange with Firerod's and Dragon's Breath Staff COMPLETELY on his own.

Wikipedia Quote

[M2]

7.) Mary Foglesong has an "in" with Rumsfeld (i.e., they are related by marriage). Doc talks alot after 2 beers (see #1)

Yep, heard this rumor as well... Tracy, where "he-whose-name-will-not-be-spoken" may have had some influence early on in Doc's career (they do seem to be similar, but I didn't know they crossed patches at any time. Was it as 12AF/CC? They both pulled that gig, but nearly ten years apart. Anyhow, at least Tony the Tiger had combat time in Vietnam with the 612 TFS at Phu Cat AB. He also was a Misty Fast FAC there under Operation COMMANDO SABRE. He even had a combat 'stache back then...I guess he became a douchebag later on in his career), HWNWNBS retired in Nov 94. Foglenuts was only the 51 FW/CC at that time, and continued on with assignments and getting promotions that he was neither qualified nor deserved to get.

8.) Nearly got shot at in Uganda trying to cross a restricted zone.

By the Ugandans or one of his own folks?

Also, for the record....he DOES have Combat time. He flew on the NATO AWACS down to Pristina (Kosovo) during a NATO exercise...logged around 4 hours for the sortie. As well, let that piss you off!!!

Also heard this story.

C-21 and Linda will always have my respect for being boots-on-the-ground at Ramstein during Doc's tenure. I happily was located a couple of hours away at SHAPE, but could still feel the brunt of his stupidity. I wish I could post some of the comments I heard from very senior US GOs during my time there, but out of respect to them I won't; but it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out that Doc's idiocy was well-known even to his bosses...

Cheers! M2

[The Kayla]

but it doesn't take too much imagination to figure out that Doc's idiocy was well-known even to his bosses...

Then how did he get promoted to a 3(?) star General?

[Herk Driver]

Then how did he get promoted to a 3(?) star General?

4-star actually

[M2]

Then how did he get promoted to a 3(?) star General?

He was already a four-star when he got to USAFE, and how he got there is the topic of serious conversation; but if you read C-21 Pilot's post (focus on point #7), you will see that there is other ways for getting promoted outside of competence, accomplishment and potential ...

I think most people agree that he shouldn't have made it past Lt Col.

Cheers! M2

[bfargin]

C-21 and Tracy managed to raise my blood pressure even higher. I told myself to stop reading this topic (couldn't resist though).

Man what a numbnuts!!!

[Guest Dingle Berry]

The flight doc here is stationed with his daughter back at Beale and said she's a total 180 from her father. Really nice person and not a nutbag.

That's his daughter-in-law. Agree ... she's normal, personable and somebody you'd want to work with. Don't know anything about her husband (the son).

As for Dic, he was the 51 FW/CC during my time at Osan. Started the policy that everyone had to have a 'wingman' on their return from the ville or if they had been drinking at the club. You had to have a 'wingman' to walk from the club back to the O3 dorms just across the parking lot.

He also showed up as AF/XO and VCSAF when I was on Air Staff. I recall one email from Dic forwarded to us XO scum letting us know that we could wear civilian clothes in the Pentagon when working on the weekend. What a treat! When he was VCSAF, I was running some paper and had to wait in his sitting room. Dic has the largest "I love me" collection of anyone I've seen. The room was filled floor-to-ceiling with photos of him and bigwigs. Obnoxious.

[backseatdriver]

but if you read C-21 Pilot's post (focus on point #7), you will see that there is other ways for getting promoted outside of competence, accomplishment and potential ...

But he was already a 3-star when Rumsfeld took office. So who's coat tails was he riding before that?

[Guest Tracy]

Doc was on the coattail of McPeak. It was CSAF McPeak who initially sponsored him.

Then (Colonel) Foglesong had McPeak come to the base and give a speech at a UPT graduation at Columbus in ~1993. McPeak was ABSOLUTELY, the WORST speaker I have ever heard. He read it word-for-word and every time he brought his head up from the paper to “quickly glance” at the audience, it moved him away from the microphone and we couldn’t' hear him. As he bobbed his head up-and-down reading the paper, it was just like someone was turning the volume up-and-down, up-and-down, up-and-down. I was embarrassed for him and all of us because this was OUR leader. As a DO, I was part of the UPT graduation planning and McPeak’s Exec Officer said the speech would last 7 min 40seconds, and McPeak nailed it because he read it fully word-for-word. He never said anything to the audience that wasn’t written down on paper.

As you know, McPeak’s an idiot like Doc. McPeak is standing beside Obama in hopes of a job. You can see him in YouTube talking about Obama.

I was involved in a Black Door project and a Colonel representing us had to go in and brief McPeak. He was told to walk into McPeak's office and start briefing, do not ask questions or anything, just sit down and start briefing. When the Colonel walked in, McPeak was turned around in his chair, facing OPPOSITE of the Colonel, and he briefed McPeak in about 10-15 minutes. McPeak asked one question and the Colonel left. (McPeak asked, “Is General (name) briefed-in on this?”) As the Colonel got up to leave, McPeak turned around. Why turn around now?..it’s too late! It wasn’t like he was going to shake his hand. You talking weird, I mean weird. It could’ve been anyone’s “head” in that chair. That’s as impersonal and idiotic as it gets. The Colonel said he felt like our leader had lost his mind, and the rest of the AF was unaware of it.

Folks, these are some of the idiots who were leading our Air Force. Comparing this to Doc, McPeak and Doc have plenty in common.

Tracy

[Guest Boom]

I think most people agree that he shouldn't have made it past Lt Col.

Or Captain.

CHECK SIX!