"Red Eagles: America's Secret MiGs"

[discus]

I sent the remaining copies out yesterday (Tuesday).

Got mine today as well! Thanks, Steve!

[brickhistory]

Steve,

I had already pre-ordered via Amazon when you made your offer.

And for your SA, I got my copy from them today and have just started it.

Forward by John Jumper...

[brickhistory]

Ok, so how sad is it that I spent my Saturday night finishing this book?

It's either a very good book or I'm just pathetic.

These facts are both true.

Steve did a very good job with a fascinating subject.

I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but let me say the craftmanship is very good, he lets the pilots and maintainers tell most of the story and fills in the historical context as needed, but it doesn't overwhelm.

The guys who flew the MiGs had some big brass ones due to the difference in Soviet mentality for maintenance compared to the West - use and throw away vs. repair and replace. So the US maintenance guys had to find ways to keep the Soviet stuff going long after its design life was expired and flight suit guys had to aviate with the things. Scary to me...

Some amazing flying stories and a great lesson in realistic training.

And the fact of "Bandit 69." You couldn't make that up.

Well done, sir!

[Steve Davies]

Brick

Many thanks for the impromptu review :). Glad that you enjoyed the book, and looking forward to reciprocating with your Weasel book.

If any of those who have ordered it wish to post a review on Amazon.com, then that would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Steve

[MD]

Received it yesterday. Many thanks Steve and uhhello!

[Steve Davies]

Received it yesterday. Many thanks Steve and uhhello!

Indeed, huge thanks go to Uhhello, without whom the books would have been much pricier to ship.

[EJ]

Received my copy today. Just browsed through it and can't wait to really read it. Paco Geisler was my Ops Grp Commander at Reese AFB in 93-94. We had heard rumor that he was involved with the Migs and he gave a very nice briefing on what it would "hypothetically" be like to fly a Mig 21. He was a outstanding commander as well as just a good dude.

Thanks for writing on this topic.

Eric Jones

[Steve Davies]

EJ

Paco is without question the funniest, most charismatic military pilot I have had the pleasure of interviewing (although I have been told by more than one individual that he takes the '10 percent true' bar story rule to the limit!).

His standing within the tactical fighter community of the time is legendary, and when I attended the F-15 weapons school 30th anniversary bash earlier this year, people spoke about him with a reverence that I had not witnessed before. He was the guy who accepted Caesar Rodriguez's unsolicited request to move from the A-10 to the F-15; an unusual decision that clearly paid dividends. He was also the SQ/CC that got the likes of Draeger, Rodruiguez, Kelk, Graeter, Pitts, Tollini, Underhill, Schiavi and Murphy exposed to the MiGs as much as possible in the months prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait - with the exception of Draeger (who I never interviewed because he died in 1994), they all credit him as being an important influence in the MiG killing success they enjoyed over Iraq.

He took the OG job at Reece over an assignment that would probably have led to him getting a star, much to the chagrin of a couple of Generals who had told him they would sponsor him. When I asked him why he took Reece instead of the more promising assignment, he said quite simply: "I didn't like what the Air Force was becoming. I knew that it was no longer for me".

Cheers

Steve

[aceart]

Steve if I haven't said so let me echo some of what's been said here... the book is among the best I've read recently. It's really good stuff!

My hat's off to the promo people who got this sucker in my mailbox at the office in less than 48 hrs! I was shocked to see it there! now if I can only get it back off my bosses desk...

later and many thanks!

[JarheadBoom]

Received my copy in yesterday's mail; started reading around 9 or so... and finished it at 4AM this morning. Awesome, simply awesome. Definitely will go on the "read it again" shelf.

Damn shame that more of the maintainers didn't participate/cooperate - I'm biased of course as an aircraft mechanic, but I would have liked to have read a little more about the MX challenges of the program. Not Steve's fault, of course; he can't coerce people into interviewing...

Thanks again!

[Steve Davies]

Received my copy in yesterday's mail; started reading around 9 or so... and finished it at 4AM this morning. Awesome, simply awesome. Definitely will go on the "read it again" shelf.

Damn shame that more of the maintainers didn't participate/cooperate - I'm biased of course as an aircraft mechanic, but I would have liked to have read a little more about the MX challenges of the program. Not Steve's fault, of course; he can't coerce people into interviewing...

Thanks again!

Ace/Jarhead

Many thanks for the compliments. Much appreciated.

As an FYI for other interested parties, I have sold out of the $18.00 discounted batch that I ordered.

If you have not yet physically paid for your book, or if you would like to purchase a signed/inscribed copy, I have ordered a smaller batch at $22.00 per copy.

Cheers

Steve

[Marco]

Mr. Davies,

Fantastic book! I had a hard time putting it down! I was walking through the local Barnes & Noble, saw two copies on the shelf and immediately snatched it up.

[JP84U2]

Ace/Jarhead

Many thanks for the compliments. Much appreciated.

As an FYI for other interested parties, I have sold out of the $18.00 discounted batch that I ordered.

If you have not yet physically paid for your book, or if you would like to purchase a signed/inscribed copy, I have ordered a smaller batch at $22.00 per copy.

Cheers

Steve

Damn....still waiting on mine.....I just finished Flying Through Midnight and loved it, kinda got fired up about reading again. I might have to go out and buy something to tide me over.

Humps

[Steve Davies]

Marco

Many thanks for the feedback. I am so glad you enjoyed the book :).

Humps, and everyone else who has ordered in the second batch, I have made arrangements to ship the books from Lakenheath's APO on Friday - sorry for the delay, but things have been manic here and I have simply not been able to get down to the 'Heath to date. My apologies for that.

On the plus side, Priority Mail seems to take only a couple of days, so the books will be with you very soon.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest Pogo]

I picked the book up with on vacation in California, have read it end to end in less than a week good reading.

One question I have thought, is that everything was done to keep the MiG program as classified as possible, yet people always seemed to have rumours that these aircraft were in existence, were they a "well known secret", someone knew someone who'd seen them or were they actually a big secret from 99.99% of the air force?

[Steve Davies]

One question I have thought, is that everything was done to keep the MiG program as classified as possible, yet people always seemed to have rumours that these aircraft were in existence, were they a "well known secret", someone knew someone who'd seen them or were they actually a big secret from 99.99% of the air force?

Pogo

AW&ST photographed the DOUGHNUT MiG in 1969, and since then there have been numerous photographers who have snapped FME assets on the ramp or in flight over the Tonopah and Nellis ranges. Images of MiGs and Sukhois I have seen span the 1980s, 1990s and well into this decade.

What really matters, though - and this is true of Constant Peg - is that the numbers, extent, learning outcomes, and sources of the assets are very well kept secrets. The Russians knew there were MiGs at Tonopah, but they didn't know how many, what they were used for, and how many TAF pilots were being exposed to them. In that sense, the security surrounding Constant Peg was airtight. In particular regard to the 4477th TES, remember that it was not until 1994 (six years after the unit closed) that any real detail started to come out about the programme.

I can't speak for every TAF aircrew from the time, but the majority of Blue Air guys I talked to about CP were surprised when they were read in, particularly those exposed in the 1970s and early 1980s. Whilst the Navy pre-briefed entire squadrons so that they would be ready to go to CP at a moment's notice, the Air Force never did this. Very occasionally, a Blue Air pilot attending Flag would get a sniff of what was going on - one F-15 pilot told me that he tracked and chased a MiG-23 a year before he was officially exposed to CP, and his VTRS tape clearly showed the Flogger tracking left to right across his nose. In this example, he had some idea when he returned the next year 'to participate in a classified programme' that there would be MiGs involved. Other guys knew that something was happening because ex-Red Eagles would be assigned to their squadron and had a knowledge about adversary types *from an operators' perspective* that was uncompromisingly detailed. And, yet still, peculiar entries in log books were enough to arouse suspicion.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Cheers

Steve

[uhhello]

Thats another thing. Did they just log their MIG time as T-38 and others or what?

[Steve Davies]

Thats another thing. Did they just log their MIG time as T-38 and others or what?

Initially it was logged as A-4 (MiG-17), F-5 (MiG-21) and F-4 (MiG-23) time, but many of the later pilots used the unclassified designations YF-114, YF-110 and YF-113.

[uhhello]

Who killed Kennedy?

[brickhistory]

Who killed Kennedy?

A). Which one?

B). I'd argue that the one who really 'needed killing' is just now getting his just desserts.

One question I have thought, is that everything was done to keep the MiG program as classified as possible, yet people always seemed to have rumours that these aircraft were in existence, were they a "well known secret", someone knew someone who'd seen them or were they actually a big secret from 99.99% of the air force?

I just found out, after telling a good friend about the book, that he was one of the GCI controllers during the 1980s. Weapons School, 422, et al. He's still hinky about talking about it.

But he was surprised and glad to hear about this book.

[EJ]

Initially it was logged as A-4 (MiG-17), F-5 (MiG-21) and F-4 (MiG-23) time, but many of the later pilots used the unclassified designations YF-114, YF-110 and YF-113.

If I remember correctly (it's been awhile) Paco Geisler's official resume had YF-110 time on it. The fighter guys at Reese when asked what that was would just explain that it was "experimental type of stuff out in the desert."

EJ

[Steve Davies]

500 YF-110 sorties, no less!

"Scotty" Scott told me jokingly that he had been looking forward to the day he could call Paco to tell him that he had beaten his MiG-21 sortie record! Of course, that day never came.

I just found out, after telling a good friend about the book, that he was one of the GCI controllers during the 1980s. Weapons School, 422, et al. He's still hinky about talking about it.

But he was surprised and glad to hear about this book.

Brick

Tell your friend that Billy Bayer (one of the original 4477th TEF GCI guys) is looking to make contact with fellow controllers. Bayer was in the squadron until 1984, IIRC. If he's interested, tell him to log into ConstantPeg.com

Cheers

Steve

[Steve Davies]

The second batch of books were dropped off to someone at Lakenheath on Friday, however I have been told today that the APO would not post them because my name and address was on the back of the envelopes :(.

So, the plan is for the LN guy to replace these labels with his own name and address, and then revisit the APO during the course of this week. Apologies for the inconvenience, but the labels were not a problem the first time around!

Books should be with you all at some point next week.

Cheers

Steve

[uhhello]

The second batch of books were dropped off to someone at Lakenheath on Friday, however I have been told today that the APO would not post them because my name and address was on the back of the envelopes :(.

So, the plan is for the LN guy to replace these labels with his own name and address, and then revisit the APO during the course of this week. Apologies for the inconvenience, but the labels were not a problem the first time around!

Books should be with you all at some point next week.

Cheers

Steve

Sorry Steve, I should have told you they gave me grief about them as well. I just marked them out and came back the next day. Didn't know you were sending more out.

[abmwaldo]

Steve,

I picked up the book yesterday at Barnes and Noble here in Anchorage and I can't put it down. Halfway through it already and I stumbled across a picture of Capt "Hawk" Carlilise who was the 3WG/CC here when I was first got up here. Great guy to have as a wing commander and nice to know a piece of his history. Thanks for the great read.