Blues on Monday

[JarheadBoom]

As a former AF dude, acknowledging that it doesn't personally impact me, I have a huge problem with PT gear being treated as a fricken uniform. I can see if you have a bunch of guys in a training environment (OTS, leadership classes, etc) you might have PT gear that matches so that you look like a cohesive unit while running or training. But, after you are out of training and at your base I can't see what benefit there is in having everyone at the base gym wearing a matching PT "uniform". It sounds like that happens TDY and not at home base but even so I would be irritated at best with the situation. And from posts on here it sounds like commanders and first shirts are acting like you have to have the stupid thing ironed and pressed and a perfect gig line even when running or working out in your "uniform". There are even posts that suggest you should render a salute while wearing workout clothes if you happen to pass by a staff car (screw that!!!). They would have to get out and look me in the face and tell me what they expect before I'd salute their car while running or going to the gym in PT gear to work out. I'm all for rendering proper salutes and showing respect to senior officers but I'm going to have to throw the BS flag on this whole PT "uniform" thing!!

PS: On topic...I would also hate the idea of having to wear blues at all, much less every Monday. That would suck majorly, in my opinion. I only wore my blues about 4 or 5 times in 7 years of AD flying and that was for special staff meeting days or events.

1. AF PT gear IS a uniform - it's in the AFI.

2. AF PT uniform wear in the gym, for everyone, at all times, is mandated at some stateside bases (including mine). I'm not at an AETC base, either.

3. It's already been pointed out that at some desert-type locations, saluting in PT gear is mandated by written policy.

[bfargin]

Sorry, I already threw out the BS flag on the PT "uniform" issue so the AFI has no authority in this case.

[Guest Boom]

It's simple:

1. If you fly, wear a flight suit.

2. If you fix planes, wear coveralls.

3. If you work outside the wire, wear ABUs/BDUs.

4. If you sit at a desk all day, count money and play solitaire wear blues.

Because everyone who sits at a desk doesn't do any work.

[Stiffler]

1. AF PT gear IS a uniform - it's in the AFI.

2. AF PT uniform wear in the gym, for everyone, at all times, is mandated at some stateside bases (including mine). I'm not at an AETC base, either.

3. It's already been pointed out that at some desert-type locations, saluting in PT gear is mandated by written policy.

You suck for defending it.

[Guest John Cocktosten]

Received this email a few moments ago. I hope it is a hoax, but I fear it is not.

"A head's up. Starting 8 Sep 08, the direction from the new CSAF is that everyone in the AF will wear blues (not Class A blouse) every Monday.

Direction is forthcoming. This came from the recent off site the Chief had here in D.C. with all 4-stars and 2 letters."

It's going to be for Air Staff only. There's going to be a run on Air Staff cookies in the P-word clothing sales store next week. Even more reason to hate this place. I keep telling myself it could be worse, we could in in blues everyday like pre-2005.

[Hacker]

M2 Johnson is right about HerkDerka Johnson and Boom Johnson being right.

[discus]

[JarheadBoom]

You suck for defending it.

You obviously haven't learned the subtle difference between pointing out the facts regarding a policy, and actually defending said policy.

Your opinion has been noted.

[Guest Sebastian]

Because everyone who sits at a desk doesn't do any work.

Never said anything about not doing work (should have used "or" instead of "and"). My point was if you're not going to get dirty and such then you should probably be wearing blues. Who decided we need maternity BDUs? - not everyone can be a "warrior."

[Guest Cap-10]

It's simple:

1. If you fly, wear a flight suit.

2. If you fix planes, wear coveralls.

3. If you work outside the wire, wear ABUs/BDUs.

4. If you sit at a desk all day, count money and play solitaire wear blues.

Oh wait young Jedi....I am sure your song will change when you get to your first staff tour.

I can't imagine how much more miserable my job would be sitting at a desk all day AND wearing blues.

I bet body armor and my web belt/gas mask would look outstanding with my blues during the next exercise.

Cap-10

[Guest Sebastian]

What???

So dudes with thousands of hours of combat time should have to wear blues because they are not "warriors" when they are int he Pentagon?

Oh Brother

Ok, how's this: Flightsuits for Everyone. No fuss, cheap, easy, comfortable.

[Guest Sebastian]

We earned our wings. At graduation did they hand you a flight suit or a pair of wings?

There are a lot of folks who aren't rated yet still prance around in flight suits. You should take solace in knowing that your name tag has something they only had wet dreams wishing they earned.

If there's no chance you'll be flying for a 2-3 staff tour then why do you need a flight suit? Grab your ABUs and blouse the boots.

[Herk Mafia]

We earned our wings. At graduation did they hand you a flight suit or a pair of wings?

There are a lot of folks who aren't rated yet still prance around in flight suits. You should take solace in knowing that your name tag has something they only had wet dreams wishing they earned.

If there's no chance you'll be flying for a 2-3 staff tour then why do you need a flight suit? Grab your ABUs and blouse the boots.

This is how I feel when people b1tch about space/missile folks wearing flight suits. I dont mind at all because when people on base ask what I do, I get to say Im a pilot and no one thinks twice about why I am in a bag.

[Guest Boom]

This is how I feel when people b1tch about space/missile folks wearing flight suits. I dont mind at all because when people on base ask what I do, I get to say Im a pilot and no one thinks twice about why I am in a bag.

Everyone in Cheyenne probably thinks you're either a missileer or a depressed Huey pilot working for missileers.

[Guest Boom]

Speaking for the missileer community, god knows you're right asking why the f*%k we wear flightsuits, but I think it's cute that you guys think we all (or even most of us!) wanted to be pilots or give 2 hoots about your wings. Of course, in before the crack on my screenname...

So what UPT base did you wash out of?

[Guest Cap-10]

Speaking for the missileer community, god knows you're right asking why the f*%k we wear flightsuits, but I think it's cute that you guys think we all (or even most of us!) wanted to be pilots or give 2 hoots about your wings. Of course, in before the crack on my screenname...

Flight Suit tag says: COVERALLS, FLYERS, MEN, SUMMER. So why do you wear a flight suit? Let me guess, becuase Big Blue says you can.

Everyone wants to get back to our heritage, so why not include the leather jacket heritage:

The U.S. Army Air Forces Class 13 Catalog listed the A-2 as "Jacket, Flying, Type A-2," with Spec. No. 94-3040. Often referred to as a "bomber" jacket, its official designation was as "Jacket, Pilot's (summer)"

The A-2 jacket was awarded Army Air Forces airman upon completion of basic flight training.

As airman progressed through various duty stations they often added and removed squadron patches, rank marks, and occasionally elaborate artwork depicting the type of aircraft they flew or a copy of the artwork painted on their airplane. Bomber crews often added small bombs to the right front of their jackets indicating the number of missions they had flown.

Some fighter pilot jackets had a map of the mission area sewn into the lining, which could be used (in theory) for navigation if shot down. Some jackets (famously, those of the Flying Tigers) had a "blood chit" sewn on the lining or outer back, printed on cloth, which promised certain rewards to civilians who aided a downed airman. A prerogative of the fighter ace was the red satin lining, to which he was entitled on confirmation of his fifth aerial kill.

Wartime pictures show entire bomber crews outfitted with A-2s, although at altitude in a bomber they probably weren't too useful. The pilot and copilot had primitive cabin heat on some aircraft so they may have generally worn A-2s while the rest of the bomber crew- navigator, bombardier, gunners and radio operator and so on-usually wore heavier fleece-lined Type B-3 or ANJ4 (and later B-9 and B-11 parkas) which were warmer and better suited to long hours in the severe cold. However period photos do show A-2s worn by crew underneath heavy outer garments and posed photos often show entire bomber crews in A-2s.

So let's get back to our heritage: , WSO's, Nav's, FE's, Load's, Boom's and anyone else whose pink actually flies for a living =

Guys who sit underground for 69hrs at a time =

Note: in 1943 General H. H. "Hap" Arnold canceled any further leather jacket contracts in favor of newer cloth-shell jackets like the B-10 and B-15. Needless to say, Arnold's popularity with his airmen was not improved by his decision.

Cap-10

[matmacwc]

Why do they were leather jackets and scarves? Do they even know the history behind the scarf?

[MD]

Why do they were leather jackets and scarves? Do they even know the history behind the scarf?

Missileers used to wear blue jumpsuits, but in the mid-90s (IIRC) were directed to get rid of the blue suits and wear green bags in order to not have fiscal expenditure on the two separate types. To be fair, I believe they wanted to keep the blues but essentially weren't allowed to.

Now, A-2s? I don't know. Scarves may have been part of the old jumpsuit, but I can't remember clearly.

Davis Monthan Titan 2 missile crew below.

[Guest tentoad]

Blues...

Oh man, here we go again.

Scarf: WW1, used to make clearing more comfortable in an era of wool and other itchy/scratchy fabrics. Also use to clear (usually castor/lightweight in rotary engines) oil from face, goggles, windscreen, etc...

WW2, Same thing but no messy oil in the cockpit.

It just occured to me: Back when pilots were really pilots, they put scarves ON to fly- now they must remove them to fly.

Maybe thats why we hate them?

Whatever happened to the no fuzz flight suit thing they studied last year.

Flight suits still appear to be made from compressed fuzz, liberated after 3 washings.

[JarheadBoom]

Whatever happened to the no fuzz flight suit thing they studied last year.

Flight suits still appear to be made from compressed fuzz, liberated after 3 washings.

No shit...

The best-looking flightsuits I have are the two I have left from when I got out of the Corps in '03. The three the AF gave me pilled-up on the FIRST WASH!

[F16Deuce]

Speaking for the missileer community, god knows you're right asking why the f*%k we wear flightsuits, but I think it's cute that you guys think we all (or even most of us!) wanted to be pilots or give 2 hoots about your wings. Of course, in before the crack on my screenname...

It's really a matter that you people look like fags wearing flight suits when you don't fly. Noone gives a sh!t whether you wanted to be a pilot or not. If you earned wings (sorry, those star trek wings don't count), you get to wear a flightsuit. If you didn't earn wings you shouldn't get to wear a flight suit.

[budderbar]

It's really a matter that you people look like fags wearing flight suits when you don't fly. Noone gives a sh!t whether you wanted to be a pilot or not. If you earned wings (sorry, those star trek wings don't count), you get to wear a flightsuit. If you didn't earn wings you shouldn't get to wear a flight suit.

It's not like they have a choice on what they get to wear to work. It's like that squadron that is required to wear scarfs (or what ever) they don't like it but they got to wear it.

I mean seriously you are giving these guys shit over something they have no control over. Now that's

Edited September 4, 2008 by budderbar

[brickhistory]

1. Bags should be for those who fly - front end, middle, back end in an aerospace vehicle as it is a utility uniform specially designed for the aviation environment - NOMEX properties, etc. Make allowances for UAV pilots/sensor operators?

2. Missileers wear what they are directed to. Throw the flag at the USAF leadership that decreed the change - leather jackets included.

3. Back in the dark ages, I wore the old 'crew blues,' transient alert-type two piece fatigues with the oh-so-stylish polyester 'dickie.' That was replaced at whatever cost by the blue crew uniform (blue flight suit), followed by the all-purpose 'everybody's special' green bag. All of the above were/are pointless. Wear the green fatigues/BDUs/ACUs to/from alert, then put on your sweats and bunny slippers like has always been done.

4. I then went to a FACP GCI site - BDUs, pup tents, duece and half trucks, 1st generation M-16s, M-79s, and M-60s but still in use in the early 1990s.

5. Then went to AWACS and JSTARS where the green/desert flight suit was the duty uniform. Worst item ever for comfort outside of the 60-70 degrees with 45% humidity weather range. You stew in your own juices when it's hot/muggy and you suffer incredible 'shrinkage' when the Oklahoma or Korea winter slides right in via the body-length zipper. I couldn't even wear the black tennis shoes, er, boots so popular due to having Frankenstein-ian feet.

6. Fini assignments on Air Staff and FAA HQ where blues followed by the post-9/11 'warrior' uniform policy, so quickly back into bags or BDUs.

BDUs were the best uniform of the bunch. Comfy, take the shirt off if it gets hot, can do shit with out worrying about trashing it, etc, etc. Never got around to ACUs before retirement, so no comment there. Blues are just cheesy. Bags are pretty useless unless actually flying/hanging out in the squadron.

If you fly, you get to wear a bag. If you don't, you don't.

But everybody gets the PT uniform. Now that's

BTW, silk scarves were also used to protect the pilot, mainly figher type, from serious neck chafing - to the point of rawness - from the endless, but life-saving vitalness - of having to keep his skull on a swivel during long missions. WWII Mustang and other long-distance escort pilots would be doing the lighthouse imitation for 5-8 hours per sortie. If he didn't see the other guy, there was a good chance he wasn't going home.

[budderbar]

STFU Lt. When we want your opinion we will give it too you.

Hahaha that's awesome! (Begin Tangent) I guess that's what senior leadership says to mid career officers like yourself thus how messed up certain thing are in Big Blue.

I can see it now:

Lt Col. X: Sir, I really think we should have an experienced pilot set requirements for this new aircraft platform.

3 star Gen X: STFU Lt.Col X When we want your opinion we will give it too you. Where is my exec from three years ago he was great as an exec and did an evenly more stupendous job as a Civil engineer!

And the cycle of dumb shit continues. (End Tangent)

Edited September 4, 2008 by budderbar

[slacker]

It's official- I'm looking at the memo dated 4 Sept. Hooray!! I hate blues.