Blues on Monday

[Broken & Stupid]

Here's the simple connection: Blues do not cloak a belly like the Flight Suit & ABUs. CSAF is concerned about standards...no more cloaking. Next stop...PFT audit. No scores, unsats, and profiles beware.

[Guest Cap-10]

Here's the simple connection: Blues do not cloak a belly like the Flight Suit & ABUs. CSAF is concerned about standards...no more cloaking. Next stop...PFT audit. No scores, unsats, and profiles beware.

My sarcasm meter is currently Code-3, so if you are being sarcastic, I'm sorry.

If you are being serious, let me say WRONG!

If there are people in a unit that have not taken their PT test, or are overdue, are sitting on a failed test, then the supervisor should find the Unit Fitness Monitr (UFM) and his nuts for not doing his job. (Wait, that would be holding him accountable for not doing his job, what a friggin concept).

Hammer his nuts for not conducting a test when a guy in-processes without a current score.

Hammer his nuts for not enrolling the failed PT'er in the Healthy Living Workshop and Fitness Improvement Program (both required when you fail the PT test).

Hammer the actual person for letting their PFT expire. They should take some responsibiltiy for your their own training/currencies), and then hammer the UFM's nuts for not knowing that people are overdue for a test.

And how does the persons uniform have anything to do with this? It doesn't!

Cap-10

[stract]

ok so I'm ironing my shirt right now, and I go reference the 36-2903 to make sure I don't put the sleeve creases in the wrong spot (in line with the aft edge of the rank tab or centered on the rank tab?), and all I can find about the LBSSS (and the LBLSS for that matter) says "military creases are not authorized". Now what does that mean? No creases on the sleeves anymore? Confused...

[Herk Driver]

ok so I'm ironing my shirt right now, and I go reference the 36-2903 to make sure I don't put the sleeve creases in the wrong spot (in line with the aft edge of the rank tab or centered on the rank tab?), and all I can find about the LBSSS (and the LBLSS for that matter) says "military creases are not authorized". Now what does that mean? No creases on the sleeves anymore? Confused...

Crease in line with aft edge of rank tab.

Military crease = those three creases that some Navy guys (and others) wear that run down the back of the shirt from top to bottom on the left and right sides and the center.

I guess some if not all bases will begin their interpretation of "any combination" of blues. This came out friday afternoon:

Little Rock AFB personnel will wear the long sleeve blue shirt with tie from 1 Nov through

31 Mar and the short sleeve blue shirt from 1 Apr through 31 Oct.

Always been this way. Some bases have the "winter" (seasonal) uniform gig, meaning they tell you when to wear a short sleeve or long-sleeve shirt due to the prevailing weather. You see it more in the northern tier bases. Normally bases in the South and in CA don't have such policies.

[Guest Cap-10]

Crease in line with aft edge of rank tab.

Military crease = those three creases that some Navy guys (and others) wear that run down the back of the shirt from top to bottom on the left and right sides and the center.

Military crease also include two creases on the front, one each down the center of the pockets.

Herk Driver,

Not being a smart ass, but I searched the entire 36-2903 (Change 1, 6 Aug 2007) and the only mention of creases is to say that military ones are prohibited, or it gives some guidance for creases in pants, flight caps or all weather coat.

Other than the "that's the way it's always been done" where are you getting the crease 'guidance'

Cap-10

[stract]

xerox with Cap-10. No mention of creasing sleeves anywhere that I could find. Not even in my MAJCOM sup.

[The Kayla]

My husband got word on Friday that his squadron at Vance will be going to Blues Mondays as well--starting September 8th.

[Herk Driver]

Military crease also include two creases on the front, one each down the center of the pockets.

Herk Driver,

Not being a smart ass, but I searched the entire 36-2903 (Change 1, 6 Aug 2007) and the only mention of creases is to say that military ones are prohibited, or it gives some guidance for creases in pants, flight caps or all weather coat.

Other than the "that's the way it's always been done" where are you getting the crease 'guidance'

Cap-10

I stand corrected. I could have swore that I had a copy of a PFE manual (albeit old) or some other definitive (non-current) pub that had guidance but I can't place my hands on it (sts). Maybe got thrown out after years of being useless extra weight during the moves. I will continue searching. Until then... the creases will continue being placed where they always have been, whether I do it, the laundry does it, or the maid does it...

One week reprieve here anyway, so I'll have until the 15th to get it done.

And right, the mil crease goes on the front sides as well.

Edit: I do remember sending many an Airman (SPs) back to his dorm to iron a shirt that looked like sh!t or had no creases back in the day. I'm fairly certain that there was a reference to the AFR/AFI for the paperwork that usually followed.

[sledy]

I used the search function, but all links to AFI36-2903 appear to be broke, along with the one on the e-publishing website it keeps telling me that "the file is damaged and could not be repaired". Anyone have a hard copy of the AFI to PM, a link that works, or some computer help to get the website to actually work. I haven't worn blues in two years and can't remember if it's 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, or all the other stupid numbers. Thanks in advance.

Sledy

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

I used the search function, but all links to AFI36-2903 appear to be broke, along with the one on the e-publishing website it keeps telling me that "the file is damaged and could not be repaired". Anyone have a hard copy of the AFI to PM, a link that works, or some computer help to get the website to actually work. I haven't worn blues in two years and can't remember if it's 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, or all the other stupid numbers. Thanks in advance.

Sledy

Try this.

Figure 2.4. Men's Short-Sleeved Shirt.

NOTES:

1. Center name tag on (but not over) edge of right pocket.

2. Center ribbons resting on (but not over) edge of pocket between the left and right edges. Ribbons

are optional. If worn, all ribbons and devices will be worn. See Figure 4.3. for arrangement of

ribbons.

3. Air Force members are highly encouraged to wear their current occupational badge. Aeronautical

and chaplain badges are mandatory, others are optional. Wear only midsize or regular badges, do

not mix sizes. Center aeronautical, occupational, or miscellaneous badge 1/2 inch above ribbons

or pocket if not wearing ribbons. Center additional badge 1/2 inch above the first one. Center

duty or miscellaneous badge on lower portion of left pocket between left and right edges and bottom

of flap and pocket, and/or on right pocket between left and right edges and bottom of flap and

pocket. EXCEPTIONS: Missile badge is only worn centered on left pocket. Excellence-

In-Competition badge is worn centered on top edge of left pocket flap.

4. Air Force Command Insignia: Current commanders wear the insignia centered ½ inch above the

nametag. Graduated commanders, when worn, wear the insignia centered below the nametag

between the nametag and the button of the right pocket flap. AF Command Insignia is mandatory.

22 AFI36-2903 2 AUGUST 2006

5. Officers place shoulder mark insignia as close as possible to shoulder seam. Enlisted personnel

center 3 1/2 inch sleeve chevrons halfway between shoulder seam and bottom edge of sleeve.

Senior noncommissioned officers may wear shoulder mark insignia (as close to as possible shoulder

seam) or chevrons.

6. Necktie is optional. Center optional tie tack or tie clasp (Air Force symbol, grade insignia, or

wing and star) between bottom edge of knot and bottom tip of tie. Tip of tie must cover a portion

of the belt buckle but cannot extend below the bottom of belt buckle.

7. Individuals, at their discretion, may sew down pockets but no local policy will be established to

make it mandatory.

Edited September 7, 2008 by AlphaMikeFoxtrot

[USMCAirWinger]

I used the search function, but all links to AFI36-2903 appear to be broke, along with the one on the e-publishing website it keeps telling me that "the file is damaged and could not be repaired". Anyone have a hard copy of the AFI to PM, a link that works, or some computer help to get the website to actually work. I haven't worn blues in two years and can't remember if it's 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch, or all the other stupid numbers. Thanks in advance.

Sledy

Sledy,

are you dudes being hit by this too...wtf!

[sledy]

Sledy,

are you dudes being hit by this too...wtf!

AlphaMF-thanks man, that's what I needed.

USMC, ORI is this week so......yeah.......no official guidance as of yet, but we'll see. I don't expect it, but I figured I might as well get one set out of the moving containers. Give me a call.

Sledy

[Guest rotorhead]

Godspeed aviators and aviatrices, alas you get to wear flight clothing and fly the other days of the week....I sport the necktie every day, flying solely the oak bomber. Here's a themesong for you to blare in the flight halls...

Edited September 7, 2008 by rotorhead

[snoopyeast]

Godspeed aviators and aviatrices, alas you get to wear flight clothing and fly the other days of the week....I sport the necktie every day, flying solely the oak bomber. Here's a themesong for you to blare in the flight halls...

another one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW7NpsHR3K0

Edited September 7, 2008 by snoopyeast

[di1630]

Why is everyone so up in arms? This rule is clearly intended for the shoeclerks. Any good CC will be smart enough to not make flyers conform to it. I will be glad to see the fatass shoes in their blues on monday. About time I say.

Overall, I think we all like to bitch....I do for sure but JHC, this is small stuff compared to the AF real problems and this is no different than how it was pre 9-11.

I am willing to give Schwartz chance to unf-ck things for a year or so. If this helps get the shoes recaged fine. If you are in blues as a flyer..maybe you should fight to get on the schedule more or skip work, or zap your d-bag CC's car for not sticking up for you. This stuff is nothing new, it ill go in waves.

Read Yeager's book where he talks about given no notice inspection and one guy didn't have blues because they burnt up in a house fire 3 years ealrier. This has been going on LONGER than any of us have been in.

I will have some fun with figuring out how to beat the system....just like I find fun in figuring how not have to show up for PT, or MEO meetings, or WG CC calls, pencil whi sexual assault training, and all the other BS the AF makes us do.

Relax dudes. Some of you can even think of it as prep for the airlines, where you get to wear a tie each day....or netjets, where you get load your passengers luggage in a suit and tie.

[Big Bear]

I don't see what the big deal is... is it annoying? yes. Is it going to keep me from doing my job? No. Is it going to ruin my day? No. Is it likely to make me try to fly more often on mondays? Absolutely.

Do I think wearing blues once a week is going to fix all the problems in the AF? No, and I doubt that is intention.

Oh, and it's spelled WEAR! not were or where.... you do not "where" or "were" a uniform.

[Guest Linda]

This rule is clearly intended for the shoeclerks. Any good CC will be smart enough to not make flyers conform to it.

I couldn't agree more.

Am I holding my breath? Shit, no.

The butt-snorkelers will fall in-line behind this so quickly..... Pfffft...

[Guest Cap-10]

What seventh ring of hell have I slipped into?

Let me say this so there is no confusion: "IT'S NOT MY JOB TO SET THE EXAMPLE TO THE GUYS AT FINANCE, MPF OR TMO!!!!" You want to know whose job it is to lead them by example? It's the NCO's and supervisors that work at those offices every day. If they can't lead well while wearing BDU/ABU's, what the hell makes you think wearing blues is going to make any difference? The uniform does not make the man, his actions do!!!!!! (And before anyone tries to jump on the "you shouldn't say it's not your job" bandwagon, my point is that, with regards to the setting the example, the root cause of the failure is supervisor and NCO's without a spine (regardless of uniform). The crack pipe fix is let's where blues to get back to standards. The real debrief lesson should be to let the hammer fall and actually HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS, OR LACK THERE OF.) I had a DO in my last Ops squadron that, if I was tasked to fly on his wing, for a two-ship mission to Tehran with nothing but BDU-33's (25lb practice bombs) on board, I would. And let me tell you, it had nothing to do with what uniform he wears, its becuase his actions let everyone know that he was the pulse of the operations of that squaron, and I would follow him anywhere, even if he was wearing a clown suit!

As for the professinal image I present to finance/MPF/TMO when I am not flying, what the f@ck does my uniform have to do with it? It does not (and should not) matter what uniform I am wearing when I walk into finance to file a travel voucher. I am still going to address them as Rank/Last name when addressing them, and I imagine they will do the same to me, or call me Sir, regardless of if I am wearing my bag or my blues. It's not like if I'm in my flight suit, I'm going to act like a clown and talk down to them, but if I am in my blues, I am going to be the picture of officership and treat them with nothing but respect.

I just don't see the connection between the uniform I wear and how that translates to the message I am sending to my subordinates.

Cap-10

This argument isn't worth too much more effort, but I'll that I ask is that you take a close look at that DO. Have you seen him complain and bitch? Is his attitude positive or negative? He probably disagrees with this policy, and I bet if you asked him he would explain why, but I bet when he does its a discussion and not a gripe session, and that the tone is positive, not "god damn AF!" I also bet that whatever his personal stance is, I bet if he's not flying Monday, his blues look better than most.

BSF,

Right and Wrong.

Right: He would wear his blues on Monday and set the example for the squadron, and he would always spin the negative into the positive to rally the troops.

Wrong: Every Friday, he would take his rightful place at the squadron bar, drinking his Capt and Coke out of his squadron mug and he would conduct some mentoring. Would he bitch (read mentor) and tell you what really matters and what doesn't matter? You bet your arse.

Here's my bottom line in as C3 way I can make it:

1) The timing of this decree sends the wrong message to the troops. Regardless of what his intent was, the guys flying the line/sitting the desk take it as a mis-prioritization........with airplanes falling out of the sky, people walking to the civilian side at an alarming rate, and fighting two wars at the same time, the line guys do not see this in any way, shape or form addressing what is presently wrong with the AF.

2) Making a guy wear a different uniform to promote "professionalism is instilled in our blues" (quoted right from the MFR) is not the correct fix for addressing the lack of leadership problem. You want to get back to basics? Supervisors should ensure that their shops are in compliance with every AFI, Regulation, or Base OI that applies to them. They are not recommendations, so shops should follow them to a 'T'. When they don't, supervisors should make sure the appropriate people are held accountable. Period Dot. If supervisors can't do that in BDU/ABU's then wearing Blues isn't going to make a lick of difference.

3) B!tching: Dudes have to blow (STS) off steam. That's why squadrons have bars (for the O's). That's why I hate the idea of combined clubs (should be separate O's and E'). This allows the officer leadership a chance to vent, air their grievances, get into some heated discussions on what they would do if they were king, and lastly, get drunk and act like a clown; in front of other officers. That way, the E's don't see it, and the professional image remains intact. What uniform I wear has nothing to do with it. Much like this forum, it's a chance for everyone to air their point of views, listen to other peoples point of view, and maybe take away some learning points.

Cap-10

[afnav]

Just an input (not bitching)...

My wife went to the Offutt MCSS today, and they are out of ALL male trousers larger than a 32 waist. They are also out of all white T-shirts. They are out of all male belts. She didn't see how many rank sets they have left, but I'm sure they are short if not out.

[Guest Boom]

3) B!tching: Dudes have to blow (STS) off steam. That's why squadrons have bars (for the O's). That's why I hate the idea of combined clubs (should be separate O's and E'). This allows the officer leadership a chance to vent, air their grievances, get into some heated discussions on what they would do if they were king, and lastly, get drunk and act like a clown; in front of other officers. That way, the E's don't see it, and the professional image remains intact. What uniform I wear has nothing to do with it. Much like this forum, it's a chance for everyone to air their point of views, listen to other peoples point of view, and maybe take away some learning points.

Cap-10

I agree about separate clubs. There's nothing better than drinking booze while us NCO's badmouth Officers.

[Ryder1587]

Ahh, this rule is now in effect at our Det. God help me.

[Guest Grey]

Ahh, this rule is now in effect at our Det. God help me.

I weep for you.

[FlyinGrunt]

About the guidance at LRAFB: I assume that is for permanent, party, students, fliers and non-fliers alike?

Also . . . how is AFSOC implementing this? Given the "subdued EVERTHING" culture at Hurby, I don't see blues being too popular at any level of leadership.

CH? Anything?

[*]

So with the "Wear only midsize or regular badges" what size of wings are normally worn? Midsize or regular?

[ASUPilot]

My unit isn't going to participate in this blues thing given we're an ASOG on an Army base and our TACPs are war-fighters running around with Joe's. However, just for fun I tried my blues on...wow, not a good look for me. I suspect many fellow flyers had a similar experience this weekend. Even if I had a 32" waist it wouldn't look right. Blues are GAY.