Blues on Monday

[lj35driver]

Oh, and get this...the REMF's are going to be staking out the base gym. This 25% rule is being enforced in PT gear, as well.

Seriously. They are making special trips to the gym during peak times to look for offenders.

They've got to have something to do when they return from their "combat" rotations in Kuwait and Qatar. Seems like that is the only skill SNCO's learn during a deployment nowdays.

[RescueRandy]

shit like this pisses me off.

here we have all these experienced dudes who have all the know-how to get the job done, but instead leadership is making it damn near unbearable with asinine policies that have zero ramifications on hacking the mission. what is it going to take to shift the focus to our end goal (killing people and breaking their shit)?

2 on this one. What happens when you've got a senior guy who everybody looks to for guidance on how to get the mission done? Lets even say that he has no commitment to the AF but still wants to serve anyway. Now we have to make him choose between using his vast experience to continue serving our country or going through with an extremely painful and expensive (I've heard $1000 per square inch) procedure. All so he can occasionally show off his chest hair in short sleeve blues. F'ing ridiculous!

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

Now we have to make him choose between using his vast experience to continue serving our country or going through with an extremely painful and expensive (I've heard $1000 per square inch) procedure.

A friend of mine's sister had a Tweety bird tatt'd on her in a very visible place when she was younger. Now, married and much wiser, she thinks it's retarded and wants it gone. This chick has a pretty high threshold for pain. She didn't even blink when Tweety was going on. She said the removal hurt so bad that she was bawling and made them stop. That was after four visits and a couple thousand dollars. Tweety is marred, scarred, and looks like crap. It's only half gone, but she doesn't know if she'll ever finish the job. Hers is only about 3-4" long. What are those dudes with the "sleeves" going to do about removing theirs??

[Vertigo]

What are those dudes with the "sleeves" going to do about removing theirs??

The point is they SHOULD NOT have to remove their tats if there is a way to cover them with an approved (meaning AFI) uniform option. The CC taking away those options is complete and utter BS.

[Mambo]

The point is they SHOULD NOT have to remove their tats if there is a way to cover them with an approved (meaning AFI) uniform option. The CC taking away those options is complete and utter BS.

So is there anything in the reg's that say they can't cover up their tats with gauze? I say fuk 'em and show up to work with either an ace bandage around your arms or gauze taped up your arm.

Of course, I'm all for bucking the system.

Edited March 29, 2009 by Mambo

[Vandal]

So is there anything in the reg's that say they can't cover up their tats with gauze? I say fuk 'em and show up to work with either an ace bandage around your arms or gauze taped up your arm.

Of course, I'm all for bucking the system.

The funny thing is that is what a cadet at Field Training 2 years ago did with a tat on the back of her neck and some others did with tats on their legs.

[Guest Rubber_Side_Down]

The point is they SHOULD NOT have to remove their tats if there is a way to cover them with an approved (meaning AFI) uniform option. The CC taking away those options is complete and utter BS.

Oh, no...you're missing my point. I completely agree with you. This is BS.

[busdriver]

Supplements can always be more restrictive than the AFI. They can't be less restrictive.

Yes, but where is that written?

[USAF Pirate]

Yes, but where is that written?

I think what you are looking for is found in AFI 33-360, Publications and Forms Management

2.9. Supplements. In order to minimize the release of conflicting guidance and duplicate information,

Air Force activities add organization-specific guidance to higher headquarters publications by issuing

supplements to implement higher headquarters publications, rather than issuing separate publications (see

Table 2.1.). Supplementary guidance cannot be less restrictive than the basic publication, but it can be

more restrictive. Supplementary guidance must not contradict the basic publication.

-USAFJosh

[Clayton Bigsby]

Supplementary guidance must not contradict the basic publication.

And I think that's exactly what we're looking at here - at which point can you declare an authorized uniform to actually be unauthorized - eventually it contradicts the chow my hog guidance. They did it with PT clothing and disco shit, and now they're doing it with blues.

So are we now going to be like the other services and mandate when BDU sleeves can be rolled or not too? I mean we're too dumb to figure it out for ourselves, apparently.

[busdriver]

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

[Slander]

So are we now going to be like the other services and mandate when BDU sleeves can be rolled or not too? I mean we're too dumb to figure it out for ourselves, apparently.

Never. They should be down and buttoned on the outside button so that the creases you starched in are clearly visible. Never mind that it says on the laundering instructions not to use starch...or dry clean them...but it's a dead issue anyway because we're all supposed to wear puke boots and sweet tiger stripe ABUs right?

[Guest Vettepilot]

So are we now going to be like the other services and mandate when BDU sleeves can be rolled or not too? I mean we're too dumb to figure it out for ourselves, apparently.

They've been doin that at USAFA for years, wouldnt surprise me if it spread.

[Stitch]

So are we now going to be like the other services and mandate when BDU sleeves can be rolled or not too? I mean we're too dumb to figure it out for ourselves, apparently.

It's only a matter of time; don't give the shoes that troll this thread any ideas. I remember seeing something at PSAB years ago that said that "proper wear of the uniform" meant sleeves down and buttoned. So the idea has been floated before.

And as far as finding SNCOs to "police" for 36-29... chow my hog violations where do they find these guys? It sure as hell wasn't the AMUs, phase dock, backshops or bomb dump! Unless it was some dipsh*t who wanted out of maintenance and into a non-flightline related job such as PME instructor, base career advisor or some other stupid job. I spent 24 years as a maintainer and you've never seen such a great collection of hardworking, homeless looking but within 35-10 dudes in your life. (Yes I said 35-10! Old guys clue in the new)

To show the extremes some maintainers will go to escape shoe silliness I knew a guy who at 18+ years was tagged with non-vol recruiter duty. Before the non-vol letter came down all he had to do was extend for 18 or so months to retire. Then the non-vol recruiter duty came down; he was so determined NOT to be a recruiter that he was actually going to chuck his retirement to avoid the job. It took the MX Gp CC to get this guy off the shoes non-vol list, so he could do his last 18 months and get into the check-of-the-month club.

Hell, when I was in Alaska back when maintainers were under the flying squadrons the OPS group CC said that he didn't care what the maintainers wore as long as it kept them warm. The sole ROE was that said "optional" clothing wasn't to be worn off the flightline. Well guess what, everyone did a damn good job of following that rule. I'd bet if some CC tried that today he'd be sent to a REMF "re-education" complex to be "shown the light". Oh wait isn't that what PME is for?

Edited because I not spell so good.

Edited March 30, 2009 by Stitch

[Vertigo]

It's only a matter of time; don't give the shoes that troll this thread any ideas. I remember seeing something at PSAB years ago that said that "proper wear of the uniform" meant sleeves down and buttoned. So the idea has been floated before.

Not defending the shoes, but I think this was in place to help prevent skin cancer. When I was living in Australia they constantly had on commercials touting "Slip, Slop, Slap" - Slip on a long sleeve shirt, Slop on some suncreen, Slap on a hat.

Of course I could be wrong... could be just because some idiot didn't like the look of rolled up sleeves.

[BQZip01]

Not defending the shoes, but I think this was in place to help prevent skin cancer. When I was living in Australia they constantly had on commercials touting "Slip, Slop, Slap" - Slip on a long sleeve shirt, Slop on some suncreen, Slap on a hat.

Of course I could be wrong... could be just because some idiot didn't like the look of rolled up sleeves.

We avoided the problem altogether by having blouses & hats optional within our compound. Somehow, the work seemed to get done much more than a SCNO wandering around looking for uniform violations.

[Q1Checkride]

well here at ktik, we were briefed that neck tie/tab with short sleeve shirt is optional, however, you WILL wear neck tie/tab w/short sleeve shirt if needed to cover tats above the collarbone and that you WILL continue to wear the long sleeve blue shirt if you have tats that cover more than 25% of your arm.

[capt4fans]

well here at ktik, we were briefed that neck tie/tab with short sleeve shirt is optional, however, you WILL wear neck tie/tab w/short sleeve shirt if needed to cover tats above the collarbone and that you WILL continue to wear the long sleeve blue shirt if you have tats that cover more than 25% of your arm.

That's great, because that's exactly what the reg states.

[Chuck17]

well here at ktik, we were briefed that neck tie/tab with short sleeve shirt is optional, however, you WILL wear neck tie/tab w/short sleeve shirt if needed to cover tats above the collarbone and that you WILL continue to wear the long sleeve blue shirt if you have tats that cover more than 25% of your arm.

I spoke with a higher level source about the 'tat-removal' buffoonery down there... bad poop from lawyers!

Note to self, before issuing a proclaimation at your base directing dozens of people to pay for costly and painful surgery to remove LEGAL tattoos from their body because you want them in the same uniform as everyone else, check with the JAG! It will keep you from looking like a total dumbass a week later when you have to retract your proclaimation (over a pending IG investigation) and tell everyone to just follow the AFI, which is what they've been doing all along.

Clowns on fire dudes... Kinda funny, Kinda sad. Good lessons on what NOT to do when you become part of the upper levels...

Chuck

[BQZip01]

I spoke with a higher level source about the 'tat-removal' buffoonery down there... bad poop from lawyers!

Note to self, before issuing a proclaimation at your base directing dozens of people to pay for costly and painful surgery to remove LEGAL tattoos from their body because you want them in the same uniform as everyone else, check with the JAG! It will keep you from looking like a total dumbass a week later when you have to retract your proclaimation (over a pending IG investigation) and tell everyone to just follow the AFI, which is what they've been doing all along.

Clowns on fire dudes... Kinda funny, Kinda sad. Good lessons on what NOT to do when you become part of the upper levels...

Chuck

An article about the buffonery at said installation with details is a MUST! Keep the details flowing. I want to hear how this ends.

[capt4fans]

An article about the buffonery at said installation with details is a MUST! Keep the details flowing. I want to hear how this ends.

I still want to know what base this is....and let's see some of the email chain on this one.

[disgruntledemployee]

I still want to know what base this is....and let's see some of the email chain on this one.

Just got to kick the man when he's down, don't you.

What the hell, I'm game. Be sure to kick em with the shoe clerk footwear.

Out

[capt4fans]

Just got to kick the man when he's down, don't you.

What the hell, I'm game. Be sure to kick em with the shoe clerk footwear.

Out

Hey, anyone who wants to try and take away a perfectly legitimate/legal uniform to follow specific guidance in order to make the AF more to their liking, should be kicked on a daily basis.

And since I"m flying tomorrow, I'll use my boots and forgo the shoe clerk footwear.

[RTB]

It's Monday....morale low....surrounded by bubbas in other services in their flight suits, ACUs, MARPATs, BDUs. "Corporate" Air Force, business-attire jokes as usual....

Can't wait to get back to a flying squadron. Then again, sounds like that won't necessarily solve the problem.

I hate Blue Monday....

[cragspider]

Ok one question. After seeing the Blues monday poll, how can somebody get away with mission planning on a monday to get out of wearing blues? Correct me if Im wrong but normally mission planning doesn't involve going out to the jet, or doing anything that could be doen in blues? So how are you people getting away with this? I understand for the E's if they have you come out and taxi preflight the jet but for the O's I don't understand. I hate this as much as everybody else, but it comes to a point to shut up and color at some point.