Form 16s, do they matter?

[Guest Codename46]

I'm not sure what the deal is with Form 16s. They go on your permanent record, but do they play an important role when it's time to fill out your dream sheet?

My situation is as follows: Apparently someone on a certain firearms-enthusiast message board decided to play a little joke on me and sent an email to my Det Commander, claiming that I publicly stated that I derive amusement from intimidating innocent civilians by brandishing firearms at them, when in actuality my original thread was about me buying a shotgun via private transfer, and it didn't come with a case so I had to open-carry it to my apartment, to which the two guests that my roommates invited over freaked out upon seeing it.

Long story short, the claim was in my opinion clearly bogus, and the email was sent anonymously.

However the Colonel took this very seriously and we had a little talk about it, in which I spent a lot of time trying to clear it up. In the end I still had to sign a Form 16 regarding online behavior.

Sure I understand the importance of conducting yourself properly even in cyberspace, but I'm still butthurt because I genuinely felt like I got shafted by this punk who tried to screw me (the punk being the email sender, not the Colonel).

I'm concerned about how bad the Form 16 can bite me in the ass in the future.

Thanks.

[Guest Grey]

I'm not sure what the deal is with Form 16s. They go on your permanent record, but do they play an important role when it's time to fill out your dream sheet?

My situation is as follows: Apparently someone on a certain firearms-enthusiast message board decided to play a little joke on me and sent an email to my Det Commander, claiming that I publicly stated that I derive amusement from intimidating innocent civilians by brandishing firearms at them, when in actuality my original thread was about me buying a shotgun via private transfer, and it didn't come with a case so I had to open-carry it to my apartment, to which the two guests that my roommates invited over freaked out upon seeing it.

Long story short, the claim was in my opinion clearly bogus, and the email was sent anonymously.

However the Colonel took this very seriously and we had a little talk about it, in which I spent a lot of time trying to clear it up. In the end I still had to sign a Form 16 regarding online behavior.

Sure I understand the importance of conducting yourself properly even in cyberspace, but I'm still butthurt because I genuinely felt like I got shafted by this punk who tried to screw me (the punk being the email sender, not the Colonel).

I'm concerned about how bad the Form 16 can bite me in the ass in the future.

Thanks.

The Form 16 is the least of your worries. Did you receive a conditional event for the issue? What you should worry about is what your Col thinks of you. You will fill out your dream sheet and you GPA and other things will speak for you, but your Col also gets to put down some of his own recommendations (I think). I'm pretty sure he can have some influence and I'm pretty sure your form 16 doesn't get sent in or considered.

If I were you, I'd let the situation cool off for a bit. Cut all ties with that forum and whoever this douche is and think about getting rid of your weapons for awhile. You don't want any issues with your online conduct or with weapons to occur again. When it comes time to fill out your sheet, have a conversation with the Col and ask him what you asked above. Tell him you are concerned, you learned your lesson and that this job you seek is really important to you. Just have a conversation so he doesn't remember you for simply your screw-up.

Oh, and if you are going to need a TS clearance, again reconsider having weapons. I hope 50% of my advice is worthwhile, but this definitely won't kill you and probably won't hurt too much.

[Guest Codename46]

The Form 16 is the least of your worries. Did you receive a conditional event for the issue? What you should worry about is what your Col thinks of you. You will fill out your dream sheet and you GPA and other things will speak for you, but your Col also gets to put down some of his own recommendations (I think). I'm pretty sure he can have some influence and I'm pretty sure your form 16 doesn't get sent in or considered.

If I were you, I'd let the situation cool off for a bit. Cut all ties with that forum and whoever this douche is and think about getting rid of your weapons for awhile. You don't want any issues with your online conduct or with weapons to occur again. When it comes time to fill out your sheet, have a conversation with the Col and ask him what you asked above. Tell him you are concerned, you learned your lesson and that this job you seek is really important to you. Just have a conversation so he doesn't remember you for simply your screw-up.

Oh, and if you are going to need a TS clearance, again reconsider having weapons. I hope 50% of my advice is worthwhile, but this definitely won't kill you and probably won't hurt too much.

Thanks for the advice.

[Odium]

Oh, and if you are going to need a TS clearance, again reconsider having weapons.

What bearing does legal gun ownership have on security clearances?

[Guest Grey]

What bearing does legal gun ownership have on security clearances?

It doesn't but this is likely going to raise questions and I just think that it would be better to err on the side of caution.

[Guest Codename46]

Oh great, this just keeps getting better.

Apparently the person who sent that email to my PAS is actually an active-duty field-grade officer in the Air Force who also harbors a huge grudge against be due to personal differences expressed on an informal Internet forum. So I'm basically at the mercy of the ranking-officer-blackmail concept.

Craaaaap

[FalconXtreme]

damn that sucks dude. ur situation is definately out there and i hope its not true for ur sake. but i second what grey said. but i think if u go one the forum and search ur post that deal with this certain field grade officer so u can prove to ur det commander that this guy is just butt hurt and tryna get u in trouble for no reason?

[MilitaryToFinance]

How does a random person on a random forum know your Det and PAS's email address?

[Guest Toastrider]

It doesn't but this is likely going to raise questions and I just think that it would be better to err on the side of caution.

I really don't think owning guns is going to affect your clearance application at all. You haven't committed a crime with a gun.

My .02 (Disclaimer: I'm a cadet)

I wouldn't worry about the Form 16. If you didn't get a conditional event (and you shouldn't have, because you didn't get in trouble), then you'll be fine. People have gotten pilot slots with worse things on their record (including conditionals..speaking from experience, here). Your PAS probably filled out the Form 16 as a CYA on their part. I would, however, keep a record of all the things you posted on the forum where this happened and stop posting there. As mentioned above, you have the evidence to show your Col that you didn't act the way this dude said you did.

Get good grades, be involved, don't be "that guy", and you'll get the job you want.

[jimbobpow13]

Hello all,

I had a question regarding my situation. I am a senior Cadet, I've done a lot of PDT's and I am the Wing CC and from what I've heard I'm ranked in the top 2 of my class. Unfortunately, I had a bad semester and I may (I haven't found out yet) of gotten below a 2.5. I know below is a conditional. Even if I get a 2.5 term GPA I would have a 3.42 cumulative GPA. That said, I was wondering how this would effect me with ROTC DG and some senior awards. Does having one bad academic semester hurt you that badly? Does one conditional hurt you that bad?

Thanks,

J

[waltopfor]

1 conditional is not going to kill you. I got one in my AS200 year spring semester. Not proud of it but failed the run by 4 seconds on a PFT right before FT. Still went did ok and now Im at Laughlin. Dont stress it too much, it is your first one and you have a good academic record to back you up.

[Vandal]

You may not get ROTC DG or some other awards that, long run, mean nothing other than to put more cadet bling on your chest. Tragic. If you get a conditional take it like a man and press.

Codename46- anything else on your pleasant little mess?

[MilitaryToFinance]

Hello all,

I had a question regarding my situation. I am a senior Cadet, I've done a lot of PDT's and I am the Wing CC and from what I've heard I'm ranked in the top 2 of my class. Unfortunately, I had a bad semester and I may (I haven't found out yet) of gotten below a 2.5. I know below is a conditional. Even if I get a 2.5 term GPA I would have a 3.42 cumulative GPA. That said, I was wondering how this would effect me with ROTC DG and some senior awards. Does having one bad academic semester hurt you that badly? Does one conditional hurt you that bad?

Thanks,

J

ROTC awards are pointless once you graduate. I had quite a few conditionals during my time and I've still got bars on my shoulder now. I really wouldn't be too worried.

[dirkdigler9]

ROTC awards are pointless once you graduate. I had quite a few conditionals during my time and I've still got bars on my shoulder now. I really wouldn't be too worried.

All ROTC awards are pointless with the exception of DG and expert marksmen. Those actually carry over on to active duty but I don't think it really matters too much in the real Air Force.

[brabus]

DG used to matter (usually was accompanied by Blue Chip, at the time ROTC was commissioned as Reserve, which put them "under" AFA guys (sts) which I heard in some cases affected career development, getting certain jobs, etc). However, with Blue Chip gone and ROTC being commissioned straight to AD, it matters worth shit now.

[M2]

OK, for one, legally owning firearms will have no impact on a person's security clearance. Everyone knows I have a decent collection of guns, and most of the people I work with do as well; and we all have TS/SCI clearances.

Secondly, are you sure that the little incident in question was actually against the law? That would obviously depend on where you are; but here in Texas it is quite legal to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun in public. Just because your roommate's guests freaked out about it doesn't mean it needs to be addressed by your PAS. Is there more to this story? Otherwise, you really shouldn't be receiving the Form 16 unless there is more to it.

Lastly, whoever this FGO is that is targeting you because of some crap that goes on in an Internet forum is, he needs to be called out as well. Unless you have violated some law/reg, it is none of his fucking business and he shouldn't be sending anonymous emails to a Colonel. I hope your PAS has a little chat with him about this inappropriate behavior.

But, all this is based on what you are telling us is the absolute and complete truth. I am not calling you out, but I have long learned from experience that there is always at least two sides to every story (if not more)...

Cheers! M2

[08Dawg]

OK, for one, legally owning firearms will have no impact on a person's security clearance. Everyone knows I have a decent collection of guns, and most of the people I work with do as well; and we all have TS/SCI clearances.

Secondly, are you sure that the little incident in question was actually against the law? That would obviously depend on where you are; but here in Texas it is quite legal to carry an unloaded rifle or shotgun in public. Just because your roommate's guests freaked out about it doesn't mean it needs to be addressed by your PAS. Is there more to this story? Otherwise, you really shouldn't be receiving the Form 16 unless there is more to it.

Lastly, whoever this FGO is that is targeting you because of some crap that goes on in an Internet forum is, he needs to be called out as well. Unless you have violated some law/reg, it is none of his ######ing business and he shouldn't be sending anonymous emails to a Colonel. I hope your PAS has a little chat with him about this inappropriate behavior.

But, all this is based on what you are telling us is the absolute and complete truth. I am not calling you out, but I have long learned from experience that there is always at least two sides to every story (if not more)...

Cheers! M2

Sounds like a d-bag of a major trying to screw some cadet over. The bullshit flag definitely needs to be thrown on that one. As to the form 16, it doesn't matter. Nothing in ROTC matters once you get on AD.

[M2]

I've seen ROTC DG used on PRFs and as an info items for first commanders on AD. It always seems to pop up in official bios and in 'About the Author' entries for officers writing articles or papers. Don't think you can say it's huge, but it's certainly not nothing.

If ROTC DG shows up on someone's PRF then they don't deserve to be promoted in the first place! Seriously, anyone who would dig up shit that old for a promotion recommendation is one of those people who shouldn't make it past captain...

[Guest Codename46]

I didn't expect this thread to last very long but thanks to everyone and their input.

My PAS, after I did a little bit more explaining, didn't think too much of it afterwards, and I myself shrugged it off. It's good to know that 16's don't matter that much.

[Guest dexter04]

A form 16 is just a record of counseling...you get one every quarter/semester when you sit down with your CoC/PAS and discuss whether or not you are on track to graduate. Like everyone else is saying, unless you got a conditional you shouldn't worry that much.

-Dex