Space & Missiles Flight Suits (GONE!)

[Toro]

Question for proponents to S&M guys wearing flight suits - should they be able to wear desert flight suits? If your argument is that they should be able to wear them due to sitting long shifts in missile tubes and comfort, then that argument is lost when deployed to the desert. Thoughts?

[Cell Dweller]

Question for proponents to S&M guys wearing flight suits - should they be able to wear desert flight suits? If your argument is that they should be able to wear them due to sitting long shifts in missile tubes and comfort, then that argument is lost when deployed to the desert. Thoughts?

Desert flight suits should not be allowed CONUS to S&M (that may be in the 2903), but if they are delployed to a desert AOR and serving in an S&M capacity where flight suit wear is appropriate, then the desert flight suit should be authorized. If there are serving in a deloyed location in a non-AFSC specific where a desert flight suit would be authorized if the position was held by a rated person, then the desert flight suit should be authorized for the S&M person. If it is a job where an equivalent rated person would be required to wear ABUs, then they should wear ABUs.

But IMHO, if a missileer is on duty and not at risk of being sent for a shift in the tube, they should be in ABUs, or blues on Monday if CONUS. Same should be the rule for rated personnel who are not at risk of flying during the current duty day (DNIF'd, not sked'd to fly, sim).

[magnetfreezer]

Same should be the rule for rated personnel who are not at risk of flying during the current duty day (DNIF'd, not sked'd to fly, sim).

We should probably take away the berets from the cops then when they're not manning the gate/patrolling - same goes for PJs/SERE/CCT/etc when they're not actively training that day. I'll have to remember to keep my emergency blues in the truck for when I pull into work and there's a 200 AGL cloud bank hanging out over our low level routes for the day.

[letsgofast]

So I made this thread when I was a cadet and now I'm a Lieutenant. Wonder how much longer it will last..

[Radio]

Question for proponents to S&M guys wearing flight suits - should they be able to wear desert flight suits? If your argument is that they should be able to wear them due to sitting long shifts in missile tubes and comfort, then that argument is lost when deployed to the desert. Thoughts?

Do the S&M guys ever wear desert flight suits? I remember seeing a lot of them in ABUs/DCUs in the box, but I don't ever remember seeing one in a tan flight suit.

[Guest TheBull]

Do the S&M guys ever wear desert flight suits? I remember seeing a lot of them in ABUs/DCUs in the box, but I don't ever remember seeing one in a tan flight suit.

Yes. Same with some of the DNIF flyers. And they're BOTH not supposed to.

Saw it in Baghdad - until we had a new USAF general come into the IZ and put the kabosh on it, since some CENTAF sup says they should be rockin' ABUs unless they're in the desert to fly or frequently rolling on convoys without FRACUs/FRABUs.

As to some of the absurd comments in this thread - seriously - you're really talking about which cadetism is more gay than the other. Cadets with the potential of becoming pilot/nav/ABM after commissioning AND graduating from the pipeline and playing dress-up one day a week vs. cadets with the potential to make it through S&M training playing dress-up one day a week. Really - it's just a uniform. It's not like a pilot candidate has "earned" it that much more than a S&M cadet... or, for that matter, a 2d Lt Snacko on casual status making popcorn and taking ridiculous additional duties for 4 months to fill out 8 bullets for an OPR before going to school (in reality the casual Lt has more of a use for Nomex due to the hazards of hot butter in the popcorn machine vice spontaneously bursting into flames in a college lecture hall).

I mean if you're going to play big-boy dress up - you might as well let everyone do it, or let nobody do it.

And it's not like you see a cadet going to CE wanting to wear a hard hat, or a Loggie/MX cadet wanting to wear coveralls, or SF cadets asking for berets...

[contraildash]

General Shelton brought some common sense into Space Command:

Story Here

highlights:

“Between the expense of purchasing these items, and the fact that our operations don’t involve flying, this recommendation was good common sense”

“When personnel wear the same uniform, it has a unifying effect toward mission accomplishment”

Airmen in satellite operations jobs got up to two flight suits per year on the taxpayer’s dime. Forcing them to change clothes could save nearly $700,000 annually, the command said.

[guineapigfury]

Since many missileers were on the verge of popping their flightsuits, shall Maternity ABU's be the new normal in Space Command?

[Swizzle]

About time...common sense prevails.

A couple of years ago I heard a missilier say he was getting a checkride. After barfing and I gathered composure and asked him what the hell he was talking about, wasn't impressed with his answer.

[Dupe]

About time...common sense prevails.

A couple of years ago I heard a missilier say he was getting a checkride. After barfing and I gathered composure and asked him what the hell he was talking about, wasn't impressed with his answer.

I'm pretty sure the guys turning the keys on the most powerful arm of the nuclear triad should have a constant evaluation process. Just what would you call such an event?

[Champ Kind]

Just what would you call such an event?

Whatever it is called, it shouldn't have "ride" in the title.

[Festivius]

Missileers moved out of AFSPC and into AFGSC a while ago so this may not apply to them. Maybe they’ll go back to the white jump suits the wore in the 1950’s

[B*D*A]

I'm pretty sure the guys turning the keys on the most powerful arm of the nuclear triad should have a constant evaluation process. Just what would you call such an event?

Evaluation.

[Toro]

Airmen in satellite operations jobs got up to two flight suits per year on the taxpayer’s dime. Forcing them to change clothes could save nearly $700,000 annually, the command said.

Really? Guess who's absorbing those savings -- all your airmen. Not saying it's right or wrong, but what a retarded fucking selling point of this argument.

[HercDude]

A couple of years ago I heard a missilier say he was getting a checkride. After barfing and I gathered composure and asked him what the hell he was talking about, wasn't impressed with his answer.

My SOS Flt/CC told us that he was getting a checkride (and he wasn't joking) at the end of our class. The "Stan/Eval" instructor sat in on several of our classroom lessons.

[FallingOsh]

It's no different than other aircrew tradition and verbiage (coins, namings, "wingman concept", etc.) being pulled into the rest of the force. Everyone's a warrior.

I think it's actually entertaining to see shoes bitch about pilots and then take on our traditions.

[nsplayr]

While it's a fine line between being part of the "flying culture" and being ridiculous, I actually like that some non-flying parts of the AF have adopted flying community terminology. What a concept, maybe we can built the Air Force culture around, ya know, flying instead of bullshit and paperwork. Think of that next time some shoe talks about wingman or a satellite dude gets a checkride...that's your opportunity to impart on them that specific piece of Air Force flying culture.

On topic...getting rid of space flight suits makes sense for Gen. North's reason #1 (their duties do not require it), but not so much from reason #2 (same uniform = one team, this is the dumb reason IMHO why O-6 pilots don't wear flight suits to work) and reason #3 (cost savings...see Toro's post).

[nrodgsxr]

So now im wondering when is the AF going to get rid of expensive Nomex flight suits for RPA operators? Or are they going to continue to honor the threat of a Windows PC catching on fire?

[Ram]

So now im working when is the AF going to get rid of expensive Nomex flight suits for RPA operators? Or are they going to continue to honor the threat of a Windows PC catching on fire?

Probably part of the morale boosting program. You know...get all the folks at the base in the same uniform and morale will skyrocket.

[Radio]

I know it is fun to point out when non-flying communities do this sort of thing. But I have also seen it the other way around, where a pilot gets a non-flying command and wants to "Operationalize" all the non-rated jobs. Checklist and checkride everything because that was his comfort zone. The finance and contracting dudes shrug and go along with it. A few years later that commander leaves and the next guy is probably thinking "who the hell do these guys think they are?!" Who knows how many of these SOS and Space/Missile stories came about because a rated CC influenced it.

[Swizzle]

So now im wondering when is the AF going to get rid of expensive Nomex flight suits for RPA operators? Or are they going to continue to honor the threat of a Windows PC catching on fire?

This will catch like an Arizone wildfire, RPA operators heads up! Someone will probably get an AFSO 21 bullet too...it's all about timing and climate, a fiscally limited climate.

[brickhistory]

I know it is fun to point out when non-flying communities do this sort of thing. But I have also seen it the other way around, where a pilot gets a non-flying command and wants to "Operationalize" all the non-rated jobs. Checklist and checkride everything because that was his comfort zone. The finance and contracting dudes shrug and go along with it. A few years later that commander leaves and the next guy is probably thinking "who the hell do these guys think they are?!" Who knows how many of these SOS and Space/Missile stories came about because a rated CC influenced it.

Well, thanks, Buzz Killington.

Why bring up inconvenient points?

I mean "Combat Everything" in USAFE wasn't a massive demo of such was it?

[albertschu]

Really? Guess who's absorbing those savings -- all your airmen. Not saying it's right or wrong, but what a retarded ######ing selling point of this argument.

Wait, what is retarded about saving $700,000 per year of tax payer dollars? And who is absorbing the savings?

[albertschu]

While it's a fine line between being part of the "flying culture" and being ridiculous, I actually like that some non-flying parts of the AF have adopted flying community terminology. What a concept, maybe we can built the Air Force culture around, ya know, flying instead of bullshit and paperwork. Think of that next time some shoe talks about wingman or a satellite dude gets a checkride...that's your opportunity to impart on them that specific piece of Air Force flying culture.

On topic...getting rid of space flight suits makes sense for Gen. North's reason #1 (their duties do not require it), but not so much from reason #2 (same uniform = one team, this is the dumb reason IMHO why O-6 pilots don't wear flight suits to work) and reason #3 (cost savings...see Toro's post).

The first part of this post is spot on. However, you can't decouple reasons #1 and #3. If it were unnecessary but free OR necessary and expensive, it might be OK. But because it is unnecessary and expensive it is not OK.

Examples:

A) SPWINGS: Unnecessary / Free (to taxpayers) = OK

B) Fire protection for Aircrew: Necessary / Expensive = OK

C) Fire protection for cube dwellers: Unnecessary / Expensive = Not-OK

[Danny Noonin]

And who is absorbing the savings?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say all the space dudes who have to go buy a bunch of new sets of ABUs.