Space & Missiles Flight Suits (GONE!)

[Gravedigger]

That's exactly why the angst. After I SIE'd, I showed up at Vandenberg knowing not one thing about Air Force space operations. I never heard a single mention of it in ROTC, and the only people I knew that got assigned to Space/Missiles were retards. That is a foul. You are exactly right that this is the Air Force, but space is a pretty important component of the Air Force, that nobody gives a shit about. The problem is that other countries do give a shit about it, and they have some really smart people working their shit, while we have sociology majors and UPT flunkies.

Well you aren't going to earn any respect by whining like a little bitch.

Advocating, not whining.

By the way, some of us do know plenty about space. What's your point here? Do you know much about SEAD? Or CAS? Or OCA? Fact: I know a fuck of a lot more about your job than you know about mine.

That's quite an assumption. I'm glad you know so much about space. You are the 1%.

Why is it that space and cyber dudes always cry that no one understands the nitty gritty of what they do when 1) if you ask, they "can't tell you" anyway and 2) they don't truly know jack and/or shit about the nitty gritty of what anyone else does either.

You are completely missing the point of my post. When was the last time you heard a space guy say "those fucking pilots sitting in their fucking cubicles don't do anything?" I hear that shit all the time about space, and it's just stupid. I'm not saying you should know the nitty gritty of sat C2, but you also shouldn't think space is a bunch of desk jockeys that don't care about ops...like the vast majority of non-space folks do.

I have spent my entire life flying and around military/civilian aircraft, I get it, trust me.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Gravedigger

[Karl Hungus]

In my squadron I expect every single person on flight status who shows up to be prepared to fly. We wear flight suits every day, inlcuding Mondays. I may require you on a moment's notice to go out to the flightline because it's your J.O.B. You better be dressed appropriately, and no I will not wait for you to go to the locker room and change.

Let me guess... not active duty.

[Danny Noonin]

Advocating, not whining

No, that was whining. Big time.

[busdriver]

Dude, most of the CAF gets what Space provides. So much so that there are briefings given about what would happen if all our space assets went away and it isn't pretty. I think you're letting your chip get the better of you, I will happily mock a space dork about being a dork but I know what he actually provides and I am grateful for his efforts.

More on line with this thread, you guys need to be allowed to develop your own culture that rewards excellence. The WIC model is a damn good one, but you guys need to make it fit your world. Only you guys can really figure out how to make it work but I don't think wearing flight suits will really help.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfAHw1kTpvY

[brickhistory]

More on line with this thread, you guys need to be allowed to develop your own culture that rewards excellence. The WIC model is a damn good one, but you guys need to make it fit your world.

Don't expect or look for the dog treat from the outside community. Look for it within and develop it from within. Make it where you "don't talk about Fight Club."

Look at the number of GOs wearing spwings/cyber/missile badges compared to just a generation past. Not to mention a "Space Command" and a "Cyber Command."

Don't worry about others and their debrief if they aren't in your fight. It just rewards them and makes you look needy. You don't need the validation of the "cool kids." F'in' stop the Chinese/Russians/international crooks from taking down our systems without them having to anything that requires a "boom," yet would be devestating to our way of life - financial, power grids, etc. And have the way to do it to them if turns ugly and/or we decide to get serious about this sh1t.

And put some frickin' lasers on sharks already...

[Guest]

Gravedigger I like the perspective you bring from the space geek side of the house. Your fifth point was whining.

The CAF guys know more about what you space geeks do than you think. In the CAF you know you aren't respected when no one flips you shit. It may seem counter intuitive but try to keep that in mind.

[guineapigfury]

5. Space deserves a little Goddamn respect from the flying Air Force. I don't blame most of you for having absolutely no idea what we do on a daily basis, because you should be focused on flying. That said, it wouldn't kill you to learn a little about something the world would literally stop functioning without. You don't get SATCOM and navigation from a dude working 7 hours a day in a cubicle.

If It cheers you up, I'm grateful that the GPS works most of the time. However, I don't understand how it works in depth so I imagine it as the love child resulting from a threeway between Trigonometry, Magic, and this guy:

Edited April 16, 2012 by guineapigfury

[Festivius]

Don't expect or look for the dog treat from the outside community. Look for it within and develop it from within. Make it where you "don't talk about Fight Club."

Look at the number of GOs wearing spwings/cyber/missile badges compared to just a generation past. Not to mention a "Space Command" and a "Cyber Command."

Don't worry about others and their debrief if they aren't in your fight. It just rewards them and makes you look needy. You don't need the validation of the "cool kids." F'in' stop the Chinese/Russians/international crooks from taking down our systems without them having to anything that requires a "boom," yet would be devestating to our way of life - financial, power grids, etc. And have the way to do it to them if turns ugly and/or we decide to get serious about this sh1t.

And put some frickin' lasers on sharks already...

This is very solid advice, but it seems so out of place on BO.net. It seems like a significant percentage of posts on this site either claim or imply that the rated community is very special and needs to be recognized as such by everyone, at all times. If you took this stuff seriously, you might well conclude that the average AF pilot needs more external validation than those creepy little girls who compete in kiddie beauty pageants.

[Wolf424]

Which budget. USAF? DoD? I'm willing to bet that it's a bigger chunk of AFGSC's budget than what you quoted.

That was the DOD's budget. Regardless, that wasn't my point. The point was that the move was common sense related.

5. Space deserves a little Goddamn respect from the flying Air Force.

Well since you asked so nicely...

I don't blame most of you for having absolutely no idea what we do on a daily basis, because you should be focused on flying. That said, it wouldn't kill you to learn a little about something the world would literally stop functioning without. You don't get SATCOM and navigation from a dude working 7 hours a day in a cubicle.

Negative SATCOM + Limited GPS = C-130H...sorry man, I don't need it.

When was the last time you heard a space guy say "those fucking pilots sitting in their fucking cubicles don't do anything?

My buddy from college in Space constantly says to me "Fucking pilots, you guys don't have worry about anything but flying!" I reply back, asking when he has his next "checkride" in the MUOS-1. Obviously we both know that we have additional duties and other shit to deal with outside our primary duties, but as Rainman said, if you aren't catching shit from someone, it probably means they don't like you.

[Beaver]

If you took this stuff seriously, you might well conclude that the average AF pilot needs more external validation than those creepy little girls who compete in kiddie beauty pageants.

This is bullshit. We don't need more than them. An equal amount would be fine.

[F16Rooster]

My buddy from college in Space blah blah blah

You went to college in Space?

I was asked in an ANG interview why missileers wear flightsuits. I told him I had no idea why (at the time I didn't) and that it seemed ridiculous to me which he took to mean I hated my job and was shitting on my own people. Another guy from the same unit on the very same day was giving me shit for missileers wearing flight suits and that we didn't "deserve" the leather jackets (whatever the ###### that means). I realized that most missileers don't care except for the convenience factor and the pilots that complained about it were just whiny bitches. That's about as far as the argument needs to go.

[Guest]

...ANG ...pilots ...just whiny bitches.

That's about as far as the argument needs to go.

Did I get that right?

[BQZip01]

3. This decision actually has zero to do with money. It has everything to do with having standardization in the command between space and cyber ops. It either came down to letting cyber dudes wear the bag, or taking them away from space.

Bullshit. It at least partially has to do with reducing expenses.

4. The majority of folks in AFSPC don't give a shit about not getting to wear flightsuits. We partially had a distinct culture back in the day with blue flightsuits, and much more strict education/experience requirements for members performing space operations duties. In standard Air Force fashion, Big Blue tried to normalize space ops and bring it closer to the flying Air Force, and subsequently started pumping the command full of the bottom-third types from each of the commissioning sources, and converting a significant number of officer billets to A1C billets. Fortunately, we have not had any significant challenges to the space domain...but I foresee a shit show on the horizon. Except I am not confident we can survive a space "Pearl Harbor."

Chip on your shoulder?

5. Space deserves a little Goddamn respect from the flying Air Force. I don't blame most of you for having absolutely no idea what we do on a daily basis, because you should be focused on flying. That said, it wouldn't kill you to learn a little about something the world would literally stop functioning without. You don't get SATCOM and navigation from a dude working 7 hours a day in a cubicle. There's a reason we work in OG's and not MSG's. We come in for training/evals/additional duties on our days off. We are working at 3am on Christmas. But we do it without appreciation and without any pay incentives or special privileges. We don't get to see anything cool other than windowless buildings and computer screens while we work. Just something to consider when you bash space nerds.

1. I could do my entire job as a navigator without you space pukes. I don't need you for navigation. While SATCOM is nice, it isn't essential for Command and Control; we DO have other options like HF. In AFSOC, we used commercial satellites & services/other options when MIL SATCOM services were down.

2. We ALL come in for whatever the mission needs on our days off.

3. My squadron was deployed for Christmas...at least you got to go home later.

4. We don't get any "special privileges" as flyers

5. We get SOME incentive pay to retain us and we get flight pay because we are literally risking our lives. If a satellite crashes or a computer goes down, you have exactly ZERO chance of dying.

6. "we do it without appreciation" Perhaps if your technique was a little better

6b. Oh come on. EVERYONE appreciates the military and most don't have a clue between aircrew and ground dwellers

In short, STFU! Quit whining and get back to work. I'd kill to be in your shoes and actually have a job that means something!

By the way, some of us do know plenty about space. What's your point here? Do you know much about SEAD? Or CAS? Or OCA? Fact: I know a fuck of a lot more about your job than you know about mine. Why is it that space and cyber dudes always cry that no one understands the nitty gritty of what they do when 1) if you ask, they "can't tell you" anyway and 2) they don't truly know jack and/or shit about the nitty gritty of what anyone else does either.

2!

[Gravedigger]

Your fifth point was whining.

In the CAF you know you aren't respected when no one flips you shit. It may seem counter intuitive but try to keep that in mind.

Fair enough. I come from the land of feelings and sensitivity. I don't see shit flipped at people unless it is accompanied by at least 4 positive statements.

He works down the hall from me; pretty much just puts squares into circles all day.

Chip on your shoulder?

1. I could do my entire job as a navigator without you space pukes.

Ha! It seems you have the chip on your shoulder because my job only makes you more useless. Actually, never mind, the dudes in front with the 11X AFSC make you useless.

Points 2-6b

Once again, my point has been missed.This isn't about aircrew not being respected for the shit they endure. It is about aircrew disrespecting space ops folks.

Irrelevant, I'm whining, got it, moving on.

In short, STFU! Quit whining and get back to work. I'd kill to be in your shoes and actually have a job that means something!

Our CDC is hiring.

[Fuzz]

https://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123298140

Comment section:

4/16/2012 11:59:35 AM ET

The flight suit is probably the only uniform Airmen wear that actually reflects AF heritage. I'm an exclusive ABU wearer and I can't understand why people get upset over non-flyers wearing bags. Granted we all hate the ABU but that doesn't mean everyone has to be miserable in it. You want to wear a bag cross-train

JT, AK

4/16/2012 1:31:00 PM ET

Now if we can just get Pilots to stop wearing the bag on days they are not scheduled to fly then perhaps the flight suits would last longer and in turn save tax payer too. Jeff, Retired CT

[HeloDude]

Ha! It seems you have the chip on your shoulder because my job only makes you more useless. Actually, never mind, the dudes in front with the 11X AFSC make you useless.

Spoken like a guy who never flew in a crew aircraft...which is accurate given that you quit UPT, most likely during the T-37/6 phase (if you even made it that far).

By the way, I value my enlisted aircrew members and their contributions 100 times more than I value whatever you do in the Air Force. Thank you for sitting in your chair--in your 1G, zero knot environment.

[nsplayr]

Welcome folks to the 69th Annual convention of the Player Haters Ball. Hate hate hate hate hate hate.

[backseatdriver]

4/16/2012 1:31:00 PM ET

Now if we can just get Pilots to stop wearing the bag on days they are not scheduled to fly then perhaps the flight suits would last longer and in turn save tax payer too. Jeff, Retired CT

I fear this will be the legacy of this decision once CCs start jumping on the bandwagon for fear that the AFSC/CC has shown them up.

[Bobby]

Welcome folks to the 69th Annual convention of the Player Haters Ball. Hate hate hate hate hate hate.

[Stretch]

Eh, whatever.

If any U-2/MC-12 folk need a couple of new 44L FDUs, they may just find their way down to the flightline. I don't need them anymore.

[Guest]

I don't get why you guys give a shit about what uniform is worn by the space guys or anyone else for that matter.

BFD.

[Wolf424]

You went to college in Space?

Kill yourself

[brickhistory]

I fear this will be the legacy of this decision once CCs start jumping on the bandwagon for fear that the AFSC/CC has shown them up.

And those CC's are what AFSC mainly?

Same ones who are responsible for chiefing, procurement fiascos, personnel buffoonery, etc, etc, etc.

Or could it be the man behind the AFSC and not the AFSC that determines quality of character?

Nah...

[Guest]

I think he meant AFSPC.

Calm down...

Why is it that space and cyber dudes always cry that no one understands the nitty gritty of what they do when 1) if you ask, they "can't tell you" anyway .

Give these guys a break. It's not easy having to keep the kinds of crazy secrets they have ratlling around in their noggins.

They can't even talk to their own family unlesss there's a pyhsical barrier between them.

Family Reunion...