Leadership at the 'Deid

[Butters]

There are strippers at the deid!??!!?

Yea, you have never been to Coalition Titties? It is over by the CAOC.

[Guest C-21 Pilot]

ShoeClerk...

Please enlighten us.....And to think that the deid won't become a "combat zone" the minute Israel swacks Iran, then you don't have a clue!!!! Also, don't forget the Khobar Towers!!! What the fu@k? Are you serious. Just because Qatar is in the middle east doesn't mean it is a combat zone. ANY location that is offering 2 year ACCOMPANIED tours ISN'T a combat zone.

The best way to put it is this:

Folks at the Died who claim they are in the "war" are the same folks who were at Guam saying they fought in Vietnam....or those folks at Ramstein who say they fought in Gulf War I...

Iran would commit suicide if it were to attack another Muslim country, period. Regardless of our presence, if there were going to be ANY attacks, they would have happened already...there is too much economical power and religious prowness for Iran to push into Qatar.

I can promise you this....if shit were to happen anywhere else....the Died would be exactly the same. You would still have the DFAC nazi, you would still have the piss-poor senior enlisted thinking they are getting the "1000 yd stare" while the operators and maintainers go bust their ass in 120+ temperatures with a smile on their face upon mission completion just waiting for their 3 Stella's so they can do it all over again the next day.

I don't give a shit if you just got off a 20 hour shift...did you have air conditioning....did you have TV....did you have a hot meal...did you have access to a computer. While you were wiping the sweat off of your brow, there are folks really making a difference on the ground in a country called Iraq (pronounced Eye-rack) and Afghanistan (pronounced Af-ghan-i-stan) day-in-and-day-out. I have been fortunate to have directly supported these WARRIORS on numerous combat drop missions as well as "common" lift missions....wear their shoes for 20 minutes before you bitch about 20 hour days....seriously. Although I have 500 combat hours in both OIF and OEF, I KNOW and ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that it is extremly mute compared to the actions (and sacrifices) of others.

While I'll drink to any troop in the fight...I spit on those who portray John Wayne by caring about their own career progression while looking past the real issues. You mentioned it yourself that the rules are stupid and are made to piss of Ops guys...think of the way the Ops guys feel after a 24 hour day only to find out that the Stella and Corona's are hot...coupled with some crewcut dork worrying about my sock color than the real issue.

I for one support the opposite approach that I saw some members of the 17th AS doing:

1. Wear your shorts as HIGH and as tightas possible so that just a little camel toe is showing.

2. Knee high socks

3. Canteen belt with 2 canteens

4. Shirts should be as big as possible.

5. Orthopedic running shoes

Fortunately, ALL of the above is well within 36-2903....

[sputnik]

ShoeClerk...

Folks at the Died who claim they are in the "war" are the same folks who were at Guam saying they fought in Vietnam....or those folks at Ramstein who say they fought in Gulf War I...

Iran would commit suicide if it were to attack another Muslim country, period. Regardless of our presence, if there were going to be ANY attacks, they would have happened already...there is too much economical power and religious prowness for Iran to push into Qatar.

I like where you're going with this, I really do. But a few things:

I know a few guys who fought the Vietnam war from Guam in BUFFs. They were quite happy to be there instead of living in Vietnam. All were saddened and never quite got over the loss of their buds who didn't make it back. Not all who operated out of there made it home. It was a good place to fight the war. If you survived.

Iran did go to war with a Muslim country, Iraq, it lasted 8 years and went nowhere good for either of them. It spelled the death for a lot of Muslims. They did it anyway. The larger issue there isn't religion, it's race. Iranians are Persians, everyone else is Arab. For the most part blood counted more than religion, even among brother Shiites. And financial logic never really seems to matter, Germany invaded it's largest trading partners despite all predictions that it would destroy their economy.

If we went to war with Iran, I really think Qatar would get waxed, and the 'Died would suck for an actual purpose. The more relevant point is, if we went to war with Germany Ramstien would suck for a reason. But we're not, and it doesn't. Similarly, we're not at war with Iran, and the only reason Al Udied exists is because it would cost to f'ing much to put us in hotels. Instead we have the Air Force Academy experience for all who never went there for no f'ing reason and d!psh!ts who say "if we were at war with Iran" like it's in any way f'ing relevant.

I don't think I could suck up the camel toe, but I'll tell you, I'm considering it. And again, I'm not arguing, I like where you're going with this.

EDIT: No sts, intentionally. I'm a heavy driver.

[B52Herc]

Just stumbled across news of a new 379AEW/CC this July. He was the best Aircraft Commander I ever had, and a great guy all around. I haven't seen him for about 20 years, but there may be a ray of hope for some reduction in the dumbness, or at least a guy with a sense of humor about it.

BTW - if you want to get his attention just shout out "How do you like that? Big Boy!" next time you see him. He'll think it's funny so don't worry about him getting pissed.

[Toro]

BTW - if you want to get his attention just shout out "How do you like that? Big Boy!" next time you see him. He'll think it's funny so don't worry about him getting pissed.

Good call. And if he happens to get angry, just tell him some guy from the internet told you to say it.

[Butters]

Good call. And if he happens to get angry, just tell him some guy from the internet told you to say it.

Works every time! 80% of time!

[Guest shoeclerk]

C-21 Dude

Wow!!! It never ceases to amaze me they way people react. You obiviously assume a lot about me: 1)not being an operator, 2)never directly supporting the troops on the ground 3)not knowing a thing about Farsi, Arabic, Dari, Pashtu, etc....4)never hiking my PT shorts up

Checked all the boxes Stud!!!!

I see stupid shit all the time in big blue. The deid is just a smaller version of the Air Force - 99% of the people are worthless - only the ops dudes matter....

My point is that I think most of the people there aren't sh*&bags, but just doing the same job they do at home station. There ARE a minority of the nazis, but if you put more of you energy into calling these folks out rather than bitching about me, maybe more shit would get changed

...and if you really can't sleep at night because some E's are getting a few hundred extra $ a night for being in a shitty location for 4,6,12 months, then you're worrying about the wrong shit.

Edited July 18, 2008 by shoeclerk

[pawnman]

C-21 Dude

Wow!!! It never ceases to amaze me they way people react. You obiviously assume a lot about me: 1)not being an operator, 2)never directly supporting the troops on the ground 3)not knowing a thing about Farsi, Arabic, Dari, Pashtu, etc....4)never hiking my PT shorts up

Checked all the boxes Stud!!!!

I see stupid shit all the time in big blue. The deid is just a smaller version of the Air Force - 99% of the people are worthless - only the ops dudes matter....

My point is that I think most of the people there aren't sh*&bags, but just doing the same job they do at home station. There ARE a minority of the nazis, but if you put more of you energy into calling these folks out rather than bitching about me, maybe more shit would get changed

...and if you really can't sleep at night because some E's are getting a few hundred extra $ a night for being in a shitty location for 4,6,12 months, then you're worrying about the wrong shit.

Totally missed the point.

It's already a shitty location. No need for sock Nazis and the Disco Belt Patrol to make it worse.

[Stiffler]

Checked all the boxes Stud!!!!

Feel free to choke yourself.

[Finance_Guy]

And the Died is not a combat zone, and wont become one when Iran hits the fan (i highly doubt Iran would attack Qatar...). However, even if it had the POTENTIAL to be one, it IS NOT one.

I agree the Died is not a combat zone in the true sense of "Combat", but is a qualified hazardous duty area due to the direct support the base provides to combat operations for OEF/OIF. Read the DoDFMR 7A, Chapter 44--Qatar is Defined as a Combat Zone (CZ) by Excutive order (EO)...period.

440103. Combat Zone Income Tax Exclusion for Active Service in a CZ or Qualified Hazardous Duty Area

A. Combat Zone Defined

2. Effective January 17, 1991, Executive Order 12744 designated the following areas (including air space and adjacent waters) as combat zones: Persian Gulf; Red Sea; Gulf of Oman; Gulf of Aden; that portion of the Arabian Sea that lies north of 10 degrees N. Lat., and west of 68 degrees E. Long.; and the total land areas of Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates.

If anyone feels so strongly about those at the Died receiving CZ entitlements, might I suggest you all write your Senators and Congressmen and raise you concerns as to why you feel this location should not longer be a CZ. I'm sure they could work with the CINC and get a revised EO drawn up. Maybe the CINC could come out and announce, "...the end of major combat operations in Qatar". Maybe they could set up a show under the Bra for that event. I would suspect the CINC could set up a round robin trip and do the same in Bahrain and UAE as well.

Would suck to no longer receive CZ entitlements for those who work in units that do directly support the effort. I have to say most everything at the Died is there to support the OEF/OIF effort....take a look around when you are there. Go see what other units do. Talk to the PERSCO, Cargo, Fleet and PAX folks...see if what they do don't somehow support those in the AOR...especially the CAOC. They are all there for a reason--to provide combat support.

I also feel those who merely skirt the edge of CZ designated airspace over the Adriatic and Ionian Seas are not really in a CZ. Can't tell you how many tried to get that and claimed they were "Assigned" to the airspace. They were merely transiting airspace and were not assigned. A flight plan doesn't assign you to CZ duties in that airspace. A quote from the DoDFMR, "The fact that most members are in an official duty status when flying through a designated airspace should not be construed to mean they are assigned to the airspace to perform duty and therefore entitled to the exclusion."

It's funny, during my years working in finance at Ramstein (during the Operation Northern Watch days), it seemed mostly OPS folks (aircrew) were at my counter demanding CZ pay since their flight to Incirlik directly supported ONW operations. It became such a problem that an AF Audit was done and resulted in EUCOM publishing guidance to basically state what was considered direct support and what was not. We had aircrew who would fly down and pick up patients and now all of a sudden they were entitled combat zone pay. Some even tried to say picking up and delivering mail was in direct support. Both of those scenarios were deemed by EUCOM to NOT be in support of CZ operations. Travel orders had to specifically state "In Direct Support of ONW" and commanders were to use the EUCOM guidance. Fortunately, Tax Free entitlements were ceased for Incirlik on 1 Jan 2005...but they still receive Imminent Danger pay (IDP).

I'm just not getting all the crap the Died is getting in this thread. I was there...been there done that...and it's not that bad. Most of the dumb rule stuff is there for a reason. Even with the rules, dumb sh$ts still do dumb stuff. Can't believe when I was there someone got a DUI on base. OK, so much for the ration card. And I couldn't believe all the lazy a$$ fools who left the area under the Bra a mess for someone else (TCNs) to clean up their crap...with a trash can within ten feet away.

And before you come back and blast me that I was just a shoe clerk. I was out there on the flight line in 120 degree heat with the OPS folks on a few money runs to downrange locations. Yes, I jumped off the bird during the ERO for a nights stay while the bird shot back off to the Died. You never know where your passengers work or what they will be doing when they get there. Oh yeah, one of my money runs was in a C-21 to UAE...what a tough combat mission that was. I don't think the 21s even went anywhere but Kuwait and UAE.

Basically what I'm trying to say enough about Qatar and it not being a combat zone. It is, just just take your $225/month IDP and tax free and be happy. Who cares if you have to wear the right socks and a disco belt to get it.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Toro

[Scooter14]

Finance Guy has a pretty valid point. From the guy who never leaves The Died to the crew that overflies the magic line, a lot of us have gotten a piece of the pie. Sometimes it was earned, sometimes you were just on the right jet at the right time. Combat zone or not, it's nice to get the pay, especially if you are a Guard Bum.

[Guest TheBurt]

Man, going on a few money runs, yeah, you were in the stuff man, sweatin' it out on the ramp with us ops swine!!, I thought that's what the TCN's were there for, to clean up our s**t. Borrowing someone else's expression, go choke yourself.

[MilitaryToFinance]

Man, going on a few money runs, yeah, you were in the stuff man, sweatin' it out on the ramp with us ops swine!!, I thought that's what the TCN's were there for, to clean up our s**t. Borrowing someone else's expression, go choke yourself.

So its bad when "shoes" have no clue about the ops lifestyle and its also bad when they actually go out with the ops people? What should they do exactly?

[addict]

So its bad when "shoes" have no clue about the ops lifestyle and its also bad when they actually go out with the ops people? What should they do exactly?

change careerfields

and the avatar (finance_guy, did you draw that picture of an airplane yourself???)

[Danny Noonin]

You obiviously assume a lot about me: 1)not being an operator...

Ummm...you're right, that was a real stretch of an assumption about a dude who calls himself "shoeclerk"

[slacker]

If the chow hall doesn't have gatorade, what do you piss in? Coke bottles/water bottles have too small of an opening to hit half asleep.

[Herk Driver]

Most of the dumb rule stuff is there for a reason.

OK, I was pretty much with you up until that point. Do the powers that be really think that when making a rule they are changing behavior? Sock color?? Real important stuff. There for a reason? How about you can only have x number of sandwiches from the grab n go or whatever it is now? You have no idea what my schedule is or how long it may be before I can get to a chow hall in the future. What's that reason? There are exceptions for every policy yet no one wants to make them. They lean on the rules to back themselves so they don't have to think.

Personal story. Probably told it before, but here goes...

Just back from a long crew day. Landed just before the 20th hour. It was close to closing time for the chow hall. Grabbed a van and made a bee-line for the chow hall forgetting that my reflective belt was with my other gear that was in a different place (this was Camp Andy timeframe). Get to the chow hall just as the sun was disappearing, IIRC. Some Sr. NCO (and I use the term loosely) is at the door with a clipboard checking to make sure people were wearing their ID cards around their neck. I was in a group of people who mostly had reflective belts so it's not like I was going to get run over by a car (or if I did it wouldn't be because I didn't have a reflective belt). He asks me where my reflective belt is and I tell him after realizing that I didn't have it. He tells me that I need to go back to Ops town to get it since he isn't going to allow me in the chow hall. I point out that the chow hall is closing in about 3 minutes and I won't be able to eat if I go all the way back over to Ops Town and that I haven't eaten for about 7 hours. Sorry, you have to be in the proper uniform to enter the Dining Facility was his response, or he would have to report me. I handed him my name tag, asked him to ensure he spelled it correctly and went and ate.

He told me that he didn't appreciate my attitude and I told him that his concern was noted and that I didn't appreciate his lack of customs and courtesies, so we left on "friendly" terms. Sometimes there are no real reasons for rules. (reference having a PT uniform shirt tucked in while jogging/running or lifting -STUPID, esp. when the basic reg covers this topic). There definitely is not a reason to deploy a bunch of extra people who have no real reason for being there except to be the uniform nazis. If they aren't working 18 hour days like the rest of the people there and I'm not including the uniform nazi time in that, then the USAF needs to re-evaluate why they are in country. Some rules are there for a reason, others are nothing more than the USAF trying to settle their desire for a zero defect force. If one guy sh!ts his pants, he should have to wear diapers. NOT everyone.

Edit: FYI, this was from several years ago. I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.

[Guest Sulaco]

OK, I was pretty much with you up until that point. Do the powers that be really think that when making a rule they are changing behavior? Sock color?? Real important stuff. There for a reason? How about you can only have x number of sandwiches from the grab n go or whatever it is now? You have no idea what my schedule is or how long it may be before I can get to a chow hall in the future. What's that reason? There are exceptions for every policy yet no one wants to make them. They lean on the rules to back themselves so they don't have to think.

Personal story. Probably told it before, but here goes...

Just back from a long crew day. Landed just before the 20th hour. It was close to closing time for the chow hall. Grabbed a van and made a bee-line for the chow hall forgetting that my reflective belt was with my other gear that was in a different place (this was Camp Andy timeframe). Get to the chow hall just as the sun was disappearing, IIRC. Some Sr. NCO (and I use the term loosely) is at the door with a clipboard checking to make sure people were wearing their ID cards around their neck. I was in a group of people who mostly had reflective belts so it's not like I was going to get run over by a car (or if I did it wouldn't be because I didn't have a reflective belt). He asks me where my reflective belt is and I tell him after realizing that I didn't have it. He tells me that I need to go back to Ops town to get it since he isn't going to allow me in the chow hall. I point out that the chow hall is closing in about 3 minutes and I won't be able to eat if I go all the way back over to Ops Town and that I haven't eaten for about 7 hours. Sorry, you have to be in the proper uniform to enter the Dining Facility was his response, or he would have to report me. I handed him my name tag, asked him to ensure he spelled it correctly and went and ate.

He told me that he didn't appreciate my attitude and I told him that his concern was noted and that I didn't appreciate his lack of customs and courtesies, so we left on "friendly" terms. Sometimes there are no real reasons for rules. (reference having a PT uniform shirt tucked in while jogging/running or lifting -STUPID, esp. when the basic reg covers this topic). There definitely is not a reason to deploy a bunch of extra people who have no real reason for being there except to be the uniform nazis. If they aren't working 18 hour days like the rest of the people there and I'm not including the uniform nazi time in that, then the USAF needs to re-evaluate why they are in country. Some rules are there for a reason, others are nothing more than the USAF trying to settle their desire for a zero defect force. If one guy sh!ts his pants, he should have to wear diapers. NOT everyone.

Good thing you were at the Deid, if you had been in Bagram they would have grounded you. Things are getting crazy in B town with all the BS rules.

Two A-10 drivers were grounded for out of reg mustaches and a herk driver for wearing an OIF hat to the gym while working out.

[Herk Driver]

Good thing you were at the Deid, if you had been in Bagram they would have grounded you. Things are getting crazy in B town with all the BS rules.

Two A-10 drivers were grounded for out of reg mustaches and a herk driver for wearing an OIF hat to the gym while working out.

I guess being grounded gives you more time to screw off. But, seriously, would an OEF hat been more appropriate?

[Guest Sulaco]

I guess being grounded gives you more time to screw off. But, seriously, would an OEF hat been more appropriate?

True, but then again who really cares. Especially when you are working out in the gym.

[Champ Kind]

I have to say most

everything at the Died is there to support the OEF/OIF effort....take a look around when you are there. Go see what other units do. Talk to

the PERSCO, Cargo, Fleet and PAX folks...see if what they do don't somehow support those in the AOR...especially the CAOC. They are all there

for a reason--to provide combat support.

Apparantly you missed the thread a while back where some clerk was expressing his bitterness that aircrew acts so spoiled and that we are a small part of the Air Force, and that we are there to support THEM. UFB.

There are STILL....STILL people at deployed locations that think the -130s are there to bring in the food, mail, and bottled water. Absolutely clueless that we are bringing 60 instruments of death into country at a time.

And yet, they want us to respect them when they bitch to us about our sunglasses, socks, patches, tshirts, ID card holders, or some other queep. Oh, and by the way, they mostly suck at their jobs. Now, if passing the buck -- either through saying it's someone else's job or referring you to some convoluted website -- were their jobs, they'd be employees of the month. But no, their job is to support the war effort. When it becomes clear that they cannot do that, I say send them all home and save the government a lot of money. Send home the finance clerk that can't pay you. Send home the services clerk that won't give you a bag of ice for your cooler before your 16 hour day in 45 degree C heat. Send home the "senior NCOs" on sock patrol. Send home the CE guys whose function in life is to break crew rest. Seriously, I'd just rather do most of that crap myself than deal with those people.

Scooter, I'm with you on the extra pay.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Some rules are there for a reason, others are nothing more than the USAF trying to settle their desire for a zero defect force. If one guy sh!ts his pants, he should have to wear diapers. NOT everyone.

Complacency is an issue in rear areas like the Deid or Alasad(aka Camp Cupcake) and every Commander is trying to make sure their command does not get complacent and lower their guard. And yes every get complacent, it is only human. We do not want the enemy driving a truck loaded with explosive towards our gate because our perimeter security has gotten lackadaisical. (Offensive mindset if you will)

I will give you an example from Iraq. We noticed a few of the gunners on some of the convoys going out listening to their Ipods. Knowing how clever the enemy has gotten and how difficult it really is to spot an IED, why would anyone in their senses want to listen to an Ipod. So everyone is trusting the gunner to spot enemy activity due to the vantage point the turret affords him. Well your gunner is listening to music and now his/her mind is far removed from the task at hand. How should a convoy commander treat this issue? Apparently all the gunners on this transport platoon did the same thing. They had gotten used to the long and boring convoys with no enemy contact. The sad part of this is that complacency deteriorates. We sure would not want our tour watches and gate guards listening to Ipods and goofing off.

Trust me, more support personnel are lost in Iraq than should be the case ( Humvee roll-overs, personnel playing with UXO's, personnel playing with flash-bang just to name a few). Because everyone thinks support is just that. While I do not agree with the crazy policies, you kind of have to draw the line too. What things are you going to allow and what are you going to say NO.

You also have to remember that a good percentage of Air force functions are support functions. Often times than not, leadership might be trying to portray a lean mean tough Air force especially when they are co-located with the other services. (Bad idea)

/off soap box

[Finance_Guy]

Borrowing someone else's expression, go choke yourself.

And what was the expression exactly?

[Guest Yoda]

Send home the "senior NCOs" on sock patrol. Send home the CE guys whose function in life is to break crew rest. Seriously, I'd just rather do most of that crap myself than deal with those people.

I totally agree that alot of rules at the Deed are pointless. Most of them I think, are in place to alleviate larger problems (for example if you are getting hammered everyday you try and wear balck socks or go anywhere with your shirt untucked; then on the flip side you should totally expect to get a big slap down for an alcohol related incident or surfing porn on your computer or fraternization).

I don't want to stick up for the SNCO nazi's....but as a lower enlisted guy I don't mind them that much. They aren't going to mess with you if you tow the line and play by the rules; no matter HOW STUPID and pointless they are. And becuase they are out there....you as a lower ranking guy don't have to confrot the smartass E4 who wants to think the rules don't apply to him. Just let him deal with said SNCO uni nazi.

[Dewey...BoneDriver]

And what was the expression exactly?

Umm, seriously?

The expression would be " GO CHOKE YOURSELF ".

It means that you should put your hands around your neck and squeeze tightly enough that it cuts of the blood flow and air supply moving through your neck.