Leadership at the 'Deid

[JS]

Dude, I had to read that 4 times in an attempt to ascertain your point. Edit for coherence.

I am still reading it trying to figure out what strategy he is recommending to work around assholes like "Dale."

By the way, are the "Dale's" of the world currently stationed at the chow hall every day (i.e. the 18th and the 19th, and....from the email) or did Dale just happen to be there eating at the same time that said Captain was eating there two days in a row? Last time I was there (several months ago), nobody bothered anyone at the chow hall about any of this crap until the "new guys" came in right when we were leaving. It seems to come and go with the different AEF's.

So what other suggestions are there to handle the senior NCO's who get in the face of the captains and majors there for stupid things like white socks with flight boots and sunglasses worn on the head?

[Guest Bender]

You don't "work around" Dale.

Dale's right.

Dale was trying to tell you. That's why he signed the damn thing Dale.

Trim the hairy bush or just avoid Dale. Those are your options there.

The email was ridiculous...so was the "attitude" about it. If the shit is out of regs, it's just out of regs.

Since when did "not drinking the kool-aid" just become about it being okay to break the f_cking rules?

Do whatever you can to be happy..but, watch what effect it has on your crew, or whoever you need to lead. If you lose it, you WON'T get it back.

BENDY

[Boxhead]

You don't "work around" Dale.

Dale's right.

Dale was trying to tell you. That's why he signed the damn thing Dale.

Trim the hairy bush or just avoid Dale. Those are your options there.

The email was ridiculous...so was the "attitude" about it. If the shit is out of regs, it's just out of regs.

Since when did "not drinking the kool-aid" just become about it being okay to break the f_cking rules?

Do whatever you can to be happy..but, watch what effect it has on your crew, or whoever you need to lead. If you lose it, you WON'T get it back.

BENDY

MCM Rule 302, who has the authority to apprehend...NCO's, Officers and On Duty Cops...in other words, if you are breaking the law, any NCO can call you out on it, but of course, then there are then rules they are to follow on respecting authority, etc...but Bendy's right, which I always hate to admit. :)

I place the blame for this gayness squarely on the shoulders of senior leadership...they sign the regs, they task the NCos' to enforce the regs...if they sign and approve (and thereby give permission and responsibility to others to enforce them) the gay regs, you can't blame the "Dale's" out there, you gotta sell to the CC's the rationale for amending the rules...if you really want to fight about it, take the fight to the guy that can change it....

[slacker]

Dude, I had to read that 4 times in an attempt to ascertain your point. Edit for coherence.

If you joined baseops earlier, you would have received your Bender decoder ring in the mail. I believe they're on backorder now.

[Guest Bender]

"...but Bendy's right, which I always hate to admit. :)"

S, you don't hate it at all. A band, and escort for you (which I will then surmarially take for my own) and some booze. Which of course you can have, since I don't drink.

I'll let you know when I'm going to do my Vegas thing when I get back...look foward to seeing you.

This guy makes good points if you ask me. But, not the one about not liking me be right...He's so wrong on that.

Bender being right is so much fun! WOOO!

BENDY

EDIT: Slacker, you b_tch. That was a good one! I guess it's an escort for you on me now too! ;) I'm not so sure I can actually take this one though...I best get 2.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Bender

[Guest Hueypilot812]

this kind of thing started at al dahfra several months ago, now its made its way stateside

https://www.hill.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123088303

"Military members in the 75th Air Base Wing with a BMI that is greater than 30, or lower based on group commander's discretion, or present an unprofessional military image will receive a memorandum for record, said Col. Linda Medler, the 75th ABW commander.

This MFR will direct the individual to lose three to five pounds a month through diet changes, increased exercise and Health and Wellness Center classes until they are under the 30 BMI, she said. Most individuals will remain in the program for at least six months because behavior changes take at least that long to take effect and become lifestyle changes."

Interesting. I have a BMI of 30-31 right now. Just going on those numbers, I guess I'm fat. But if you actually looked closely, I run 2.5-4.5 miles a day, 5-6 days a week. I lift using medium weights and high reps 3 times a week. I finish the 1.5 mile run at a respectable 12 minutes or so (I'm almost 36, so not a young kid anymore). I max the push-ups and sit-ups each time. It's just that I'm not a skinny person. I'm 5' 9", and even when I graduated from Army Warrant Officer Candidate School (where we ran 4-6 miles daily and pushed more ground than I ever thought possible), I still weighed around 195-200 lbs. Yet I passed the Army PFT run (2 miles) with a time of just over 14 minutes then.

It's stuff like this that really makes me angry. It seems that USAF leadership thinks everyone was naturally born tall and skinny, and it's our fault if we're not tall and skinny when we get older. I'm built very solid, and always have been. Nothing I do makes me skinnier. Sure, if I don't work out I do gain around the waist, but even when I'm in shape, even if I don't have a gut, my waist is still around 35-36 inches. In order to have less than that, I'd have to surgically remove part of my abdomen.

I don't see the point of having a PT test if our leadership seems to thinks we should be putting "thick" people in a fat-boy program, despite the fact that they ace the strength portions and do well in the run. It made me even angrier when I read the AF times article last month about the PT program, where some chief was quoted saying bigger people should be tested frequently, while skinny people don't need to be tested. WHAT? I've seen "skinny" people that couldn't lift a 5 lb weight if it killed them, and couldn't run more than 50 yards without collapsing. I don't care what anyone says, body frame has little to do with a person's overall level of fitness. Assuming everyone who has a 36+ inch waist is "fat" is being stupid and lazy on a mental level.

[Guest Bender]

2, but I do thank you for the points! ;)

BENDY

[Spoo]

SO...read it again douche. Let me know what you think.

BENDY

Ummm...that's Maj Bag to you.

I think it was a moderately successful clarification of your original points using somewhat dubious grammar and numerous misspelled words.

Hey, you asked.

"I would NOT be surprised if you went around yelling at 19 year old kids, that work a lot harder than you, about why you didn't get saluted."

Ssame guy that was "looking the other way" when the General drive by. I hate saluting people in their car, they hate it too...but, it's what you do...so do it.

So, who's not saluting the General's car? Is it the 19 year old hard worker or the DB LT yelling at the 19 year old hard worker?

No...it's gotta be your bull...

Edited March 3, 2009 by Spoo

[old crow]

Good thinking there, LT.

I'm willing to bet 2 bagsa dongs that that guy would just light you up.

He is responsible to police the enlisted ranks, but your ass is not different.

I would NOT be surprised if you went around yelling at 19 year old kids, that work a lot harder than you, about why you didn't get saluted.

If I know one thing: It's that the people that for 1) Actaully talk to Dale, don't feel the need to mention it on Baseops.net and 2) People that talk to Dale, don't actually have any other place for him to report to other than HIS SQ/CC's desk.

Don't bull shit me. I've played this game you claim to have played 3 times. Everytime he reported to my SQ/CC, not me. F_ck, I don't even have a desk over there.

There are right ways to do shit and wrong ones. I suppose you'll figure this one out. Good luck with that.

Nice avatar BTW.

BENDY

Good thinking there, LT.

Wrong. Just off a few grades, but nice assumption

I'm willing to bet 2 bagsa dongs that that guy would just light you up.

Once again, since when does a SMSgt get to "light up" an officer?

He is responsible to police the enlisted ranks, but your ass is not different.

Yes my ass is. Respectfully pointing out my 'stache is out of regs is fine. The fact that it occurred in the Chow Hall, yes I said Chow Hall, leads me to believe that this was more than just a SNCO pulling a Capt aside and mentioning it privately. The tone from Dale's email also leads me to this assumption.

I would NOT be surprised if you went around yelling at 19 year old kids, that work a lot harder than you, about why you didn't get saluted.

I don't yell, but I do correct them. I do the same to officers that don't salute

If I know one thing: It's that the people that for 1) Actaully talk to Dale, don't feel the need to mention it on Baseops.net and 2) People that talk to Dale, don't actually have any other place for him to report to other than HIS SQ/CC's desk.

I have no idea what this means.

Don't bull shit me. I've played this game you claim to have played 3 times. Everytime he reported to my SQ/CC, not me. F_ck, I don't even have a desk over there.

I'm not sure about this quote either. What game have I claimed to played 3 times? I've never had a Dale report to me, but then again I've never received an email like the one Dale sent. You bet your ass I would do something if I got an email like that...having him report to me to discuss is just one way.

There are right ways to do shit and wrong ones. I suppose you'll figure this one out. Good luck with that.

You are absolutely right. Correcting officers (or anyone for that matter) in an embarrassing/disrespectful way is unsat. Not sure how Dale did it (though I have a guess after seeing this numerous times at PSAB and the Deid), but Dale's email was unprofessional and needs to be corrected. I think I've already figured it out in my 15+ years in the AF, but thanks for your advice.

I do agree with you Bendy that there is right and wrong way to do things, if that is your underlying point. Me pulling the Group CC aside privately and letting him know his collar is ######ed up, is much different than yelling it across the room. Dale privately letting me know I'm not in compliance with 35-10 (36-2903) is fine. Dale telling me again in a disrepectful email is not. Failure to correct that is poor officership. You're right, pick your battles, but Dale's email is a battle I would fight.

Edited March 3, 2009 by old crow

[Wing Sweep]

You don't "work around" Dale.

Dale's right.

Dale was trying to tell you. That's why he signed the damn thing Dale.

Trim the hairy bush or just avoid Dale. Those are your options there.

The email was ridiculous...so was the "attitude" about it. If the shit is out of regs, it's just out of regs.

Since when did "not drinking the kool-aid" just become about it being okay to break the f_cking rules?

Do whatever you can to be happy..but, watch what effect it has on your crew, or whoever you need to lead. If you lose it, you WON'T get it back.

BENDY

The whole point is it wasn't out of regs. It was in regs and well groomed. By the way, a bunch of LTs and Capts (to include myself) just got tagged for sand bag duty tomorrow. Apparerently we're not contributing to the base enough. I guess all the CAS we're doing isn't enough. Sheesh!!!! This is why the Deid sucks. Since when do E-6/7s supervise O-2/3's on sandbag duty?!?!? WTFO?!?!? Mission is not first here. Appearance, perceptions, and a feeling of equality among everyone is a culture that has permeated the Air Force. It is wrong! Leadership should remind people that supporting the dudes in the jets is priority one! People don't like hearing that anymore, but that's the truth. At least it used to be.

Sandbag duty...stat!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I was pulled off a sortie to fill sandbags. Out....

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Sandbag duty...stat!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I was pulled off a sortie to fill sandbags. Out....

At a base that has an extremely low probability of being attacked via rockets or mortars. Nice.

On a side note, we were talking about that very same issue you brought up...about the AF losing its focus. One guy mentioned that at OKAS, a services guy was heard saying that the C-130s were there to "resupply this base". Basically, the Herks existed to serve OKAS. Insane...

[Vertigo]

The whole point is it wasn't out of regs. It was in regs and well groomed. By the way, a bunch of LTs and Capts (to include myself) just got tagged for sand bag duty tomorrow. Apparerently we're not contributing to the base enough. I guess all the CAS we're doing isn't enough. Sheesh!!!! This is why the Deid sucks. Since when do E-6/7s supervise O-2/3's on sandbag duty?!?!? WTFO?!?!? Mission is not first here. Appearance, perceptions, and a feeling of equality among everyone is a culture that has permeated the Air Force. It is wrong! Leadership should remind people that supporting the dudes in the jets is priority one! People don't like hearing that anymore, but that's the truth. At least it used to be.

Sandbag duty...stat!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I was pulled off a sortie to fill sandbags. Out....

WTF

[Guest Bender]

I'm sorry. I think you're a joke (with REALLY great pictures.)

If I'm wrong there, Sir, your 3 beers are on me.

Flare is 100% right, this is not free. A whole lot of people who know who I am.

I just think you're way way off in how you think things should go here.

You'll make GO before me...you can weed me out too. Go Nuts there, MAJOR!

BENDY

[Champ Kind]

The whole point is it wasn't out of regs. It was in regs and well groomed. By the way, a bunch of LTs and Capts (to include myself) just got tagged for sand bag duty tomorrow. Apparerently we're not contributing to the base enough. I guess all the CAS we're doing isn't enough. Sheesh!!!! This is why the Deid sucks. Since when do E-6/7s supervise O-2/3's on sandbag duty?!?!? WTFO?!?!? Mission is not first here. Appearance, perceptions, and a feeling of equality among everyone is a culture that has permeated the Air Force. It is wrong! Leadership should remind people that supporting the dudes in the jets is priority one! People don't like hearing that anymore, but that's the truth. At least it used to be.

Sandbag duty...stat!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I was pulled off a sortie to fill sandbags. Out....

Please tell me there is more to the story than this. Are you saying that these are crew dogs having to fill up sandbags on their off days from flying?

Did they piss someone off?

What kind of shit is going on out there??!?!

We've all joked that OTBH is liked a minimum security prison, but DAMN....

[Guest Bender]

Yes, P. These are Dawgs.

It's not even all that new.

They use these bags to justify running huge god aweful machines next to your crew while they're trying to sleep. It's insane.

Don't fill up the sandbag. If you need filling up a sandbag for OPR, YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT.

Old Corw, "Sir..."

I have nothing to say to you, dude....I get Maj/Capt, but it's not hard to make Maj, they take it away pretty easy too.

I have no personal problem. If you do it's a PM, no?

I stand by my thoughts here.

BENDY

[Spoo]

Yes, P. These are Dawgs.

It's not even all that new.

They use these bags to justify running huge god aweful machines next to your crew while they're trying to sleep. It's insane.

Don't fill up the sandbag. If you need filling up a sandbag for OPR, YOU ARE A PIECE OF SHIT.

Old Corw, "Sir..."

I have nothing to say to you, dude....I get Maj/Capt, but it's not hard to make Maj, they take it away pretty easy too.

I have no personal problem. If you do it's a PM, no?

I stand by my thoughts here.

BENDY

I'm totally confused now...it's like reading something a 12 year old who just discovered cussing would write.

[slacker]

I'm totally confused now...it's like reading something a 12 year old who just discovered cussing would write.

PM me your address and I'll loan you my Bender decoder ring.

[Guest Bender]

Dear Spoo,

I'm sorry you got confused dear.

I don't give a...

You get it. Fight like a man. At least Old Crow pulled rank...more than I can say for you.

BENDY

Edited March 3, 2009 by Bender

[herkbum]

I guess I need that decoder ring as well. I only understood about a third of what was written. And pulling someone off a flight to fill sandbags is UNSAT! Especially at a base outside of the "box".

Edited March 3, 2009 by herkbum

[Guest Bender]

Noone ever got pulled off a flight to fill a sandbag. I think you might just be making that worse than it was/is.

I do apologize about the lack of decoder ring availability...that is not my fault.

I am writing in English.

It IS your first langauge, no?

BENDY

[Young Crow]

This has been one of the most incoherent, unnecessary arguments I have ever witnessed. I think we're all stupider for having read it. Now I'm going to add to it.

I hate the Deid. I mean, really, it is hard to explain fully how 8 months over there has completely taken away most of my motivation to continue serving Big Blue. Thankfully there are folks that can embrace the shenanigans and keep doing it. For my sanity, and the happiness of my family, my time is over when it can be.

Why am I saying this? Because I think you're all right, but that that place just makes you so mad that you can't see the rational thought behind what other people are saying. You probably should follow the regs, no matter who you are, but as an officer it is imperative. How are others supposed to do the right thing if those of us who are "in charge" don't choose to?

Maybe that SMSGT should have done it a little bit different. Unfortunately, that's just how things are in the Air Force these days. You can get pissed about it, you can blame it on the laxity of other officers, or you can just deal with it.

I think that's what you need to do if you are planning on continuing on in this Blue life, especially if you're going to the great Shoe Clerk Career Retreat over there. Personally, I can't do that anymore - the more rules or regs I break over there, the happier I am. So I'm getting out, before I completely destroy good order and discipline. Better to look back fondly upon your time in the service as a civilian, than be like me, a d-bag Captain who just can't care anymore. It just makes me too mad.

[old crow]

Dear Spoo,

I'm sorry you got confused dear.

I don't give a...

You get it. Fight like a man. At least Old Crow pulled rank...more than I can say for you.

BENDY

Bendy, I welcome discussion and debate. Unfortunately your assumptions, name calling (not to mention grammar and spelling) do not lend credibility to your posts. We can agree to disagree, and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinions and free to lead/or be corrected anyway you want.

This has spiraled into a useless discussion. Out.

Edited March 3, 2009 by old crow

[herkbum]

Sandbag duty...stat!

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I was pulled off a sortie to fill sandbags. Out....

Bender, wasn't referring to your post.

English and coherent english are two different things.

Edited March 3, 2009 by herkbum

[Spoo]

Dear Spoo,

I'm sorry you got confused dear.

I don't give a...

You get it. Fight like a man. At least Old Crow pulled rank...more than I can say for you.

BENDY

Look here LT, I pulled rank in my very first reply to your bizarre earlier post (remember my "Major Bag" hilarity?)...there, just did it again. Yes, I realize you're probably not a LT, but based on your posts it's an entirely reasonable assumption to make. BTW, are you a chick or a dude? I need to know so I can adjust my fighting style. Also, English is indeed my primary language, but I also know a little Dipshit-ese, so I was able to understand bits and pieces of your rambling.

Anyhoo, I don't totally disagree with your "thoughts" on the subject. FWIW: As Huggy said, in his infinite wisdom: a firm 'NOTED' in response to "input" from an SNCO, or anybody else for that matter, seems to work great. Maybe throw some rank in there for good measure. You're maintaining a professional demeanor while acknowledging the fact that you may have committed a grievous infraction of mustache regulations (or whatever AFI you violated). It even implies that you're going to do something about it.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Spoo

[FUSEPLUG]

Doing CAS at OTBH? Now I am confused...

And that's probably how it should stay...