Leadership at the 'Deid

[JeepGuyC17]

Speaking of Stupidity at the Deid... Did anyone else see those "No Hat/No Salute" placards that they screwed into the sidewalk surrounding The Bra, every 6 feet!!!

Really... really??

Given the hard-on for safety that people seem to have around there, I bet if you got a few guys together and said you tripped on them and skinned your knee they'd be gone the next morning

[HerkDerka]

Wow 60 pages. Congrats shoe clerks on the clown show you have created.

HD

[Guest Cory]

OK....YGBFSM. This is the latest policy letter released here at the Deid; this one is regarding the upcoming Ramadan "holiday." This is ridiculous. I especially like bullet number 4:

4. On base, while in direct view of host nation personnel, third-country nationals, and our own Muslim population observing Ramadan, AUAB personnel will not eat any food item, drink any liquid (including water), chew gum, use tobacco products (cigarettes, cigars, pipe, chewing tobacco), nor engage in public displays of affection. These rules are in place from sunrise to sunset and apply while operating a motor vehicle. Acts of disrespect or violations of host nation laws, regulations, and customs may be punished under applicable criminal statutes and administrative regulations.

So basically, from sunrise to sunset, I can’t eat at the Chow Hall, where TCNs serve my food?

Ramadan 09 Policy Letter.pdf

Edited August 13, 2009 by Cory

[GKinnear]

OK....YGBFSM. This is the latest policy letter released here at the Deid; this one is regarding the upcoming Ramadan "holiday." This is ridiculous. I especially like bullet number 4:

4. On base, while in direct view of host nation personnel, third-country nationals, and our own Muslim population observing Ramadan, AUAB personnel will not eat any food item, drink any liquid (including water), chew gum, use tobacco products (cigarettes, cigars, pipe, chewing tobacco), nor engage in public displays of affection. These rules are in place from sunrise to sunset and apply while operating a motor vehicle. Acts of disrespect or violations of host nation laws, regulations, and customs may be punished under applicable criminal statutes and administrative regulations.

So basically, from sunrise to sunset, I can’t eat at the Chow Hall, where TCNs serve my food?

Will the BRA be considered "in direct view"? If not the DEL needs to expand. And why do I have to be held to the Muslim standard when I'm not that religion? Sure off base trips can be advised of Ramadan and what would be the "culturally sensitive" thing to do, but on base!? Seriously, WFTO? This is 'Merica, Goddammit! This is making my Agent Orange act up. I need a drink and a cigar. Someone pass me the nudie mag while your at it.

Please everyone fight this. Leadership please realize this is dumb, dumb, dumb.

[189Herk]

OK....YGBFSM. This is the latest policy letter released here at the Deid; this one is regarding the upcoming Ramadan "holiday." This is ridiculous. I especially like bullet number 4:

4. On base, while in direct view of host nation personnel, third-country nationals, and our own Muslim population observing Ramadan, AUAB personnel will not eat any food item, drink any liquid (including water), chew gum, use tobacco products (cigarettes, cigars, pipe, chewing tobacco), nor engage in public displays of affection. These rules are in place from sunrise to sunset and apply while operating a motor vehicle. Acts of disrespect or violations of host nation laws, regulations, and customs may be punished under applicable criminal statutes and administrative regulations.

So basically, from sunrise to sunset, I can’t eat at the Chow Hall, where TCNs serve my food?

That has to be a joke? You had me until NO WATER...and WTF do you do at the chow hall?

[BQZip01]

That has to be a joke? You had me until NO WATER...and WTF do you do at the chow hall?

Just so everyone knows, Ramadan is about ten days long, not just one day.

Heaven forbid you be outside actually working and a TCN catches you (that thought alone, "Teacher, teacher, teacher! He's eating FOOD!" should be reason enough to repeal that policy). IMNSHO, this is BS! Despite customs and courtesies to our fellow allies, we shouldn't do something like this that is unsafe for our personnel and that so fundamentally goes against everything we believe in: i.e. Freedom of religion. Everyone is allowed to practice their faith as they see fit, but those rights end when they infringe on another's right. NO ONE has the right not to be offended.

This reminds me of the whole issue with burkas at/around Prince Sultan Air Base. We never should have allowed our personnel to wear anything other than their duty uniforms, not have separate rules for men and women. That would have stopped the BS then and there.

Either we are Americans that are invited to their country with our own customs and courtesies (should we be bowing to their king? princes? etc?), we should be there by force (i.e. during a war), or we shouldn't be there. I'm not interested in protecting anything that is so fundamentally backwards.

[daynightindicator]

If I remember correctly they had that policy last year - eating at the chow hall was fine - the main point was to avoid eating/drinking in front of the Qatari personnel (ie, customs guys, Qatari AF, etc).

Either way unless the policy is different this year (can't remember last year's exact wording), it had NO IMPACT on daily activities/meals/drinking at the DEL, etc.

I agree with the general retardation of the letter, I'm just saying it didn't affect me last year.

[BQZip01]

If I remember correctly they had that policy last year - eating at the chow hall was fine - the main point was to avoid eating/drinking in front of the Qatari personnel (ie, customs guys, Qatari AF, etc).

Either way unless the policy is different this year (can't remember last year's exact wording), it had NO IMPACT on daily activities/meals/drinking at the DEL, etc.

I agree with the general retardation of the letter, I'm just saying it didn't affect me last year.

This, basically, I have no problem with. In this case, we are actively working with another country and it would be plain rude to eat in front of them. Just eating in a separate nearby area (i.e. another building or in some manner where they could not smell the food should be fine...drinking water in the next room over should also be fine) is just respectful.

[Pitt4401]

Wow 60 pages. Congrats shoe clerks on the clown show you have created.

HD

I think this has been covered in the board before, but to be clear, when we say shoe...we don't mean exclusively those of us in the ABUs, correct?

Becuase when I look at these asinine regulations, they all come with a final signature which comes from a dude who is an operator.

The new rules on crocs almost begs for a "Boston Tea Party" (i.e. wear your crocs everywhere but throw a towel over your shoulder and carry a bottle of shampoo.

[BQZip01]

Everything was fine until we got the new PT gear.

Speaking as someone who was there before the "new PT gear", I can assure you it wasn't "fine".

Example: While there, our 1st sgt got an e-mail from the Wing Chief which stated "We're going over to the BRA and living areas to check for uniform violations. We already have seven 1st Sgts. Anyone else wanna come with?"

That right there is the quintessential point that we have too many people out there. If people have time to check others over, en masse, for uniform violations in a combat zone, we have too many people and/or too much down time. I worked 14 hour shifts 7 days a week for 3-4 months. My downtime consisted of eating and doing laundry (and I'm STILL finding those friggin' laundry tags on stuff from 4 years ago!!!) and getting needed supplies from the BX, with the occasional trip to the bar for a drink before I went to sleep or a quick poker game. Other people were working six or even FIVE days a week. WTF? This is a WAR, not a friggin' cruise!

[pawnman]

Just got a new email regarding the Ramadan policy...we're still cleared hot to eat at the DFACs and drink water at all hours of the day.

At least SOMEONE'S paying attention up there.

[Clayton Bigsby]

Do the Brits use ration cards for beers at the Muff?

[BQZip01]

...it's so cliche but here's a Sun Tzu quote for ya; I heard he was a real shoe in his day.

There one was a man named Tzu

Whom they asked "Sir, what do you do?"

"I write down the truth

and made it quite couth...

so now they call me a shoe"

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Other people were working six or even FIVE days a week. WTF? This is a WAR, not a friggin' cruise!

I can remember going to the finance office at Sather and being told "sorry, we're closed" and when I asked why (it was middle of the day) the girl looked at me incredulously and said "uh, because it's Sunday...you know, the weekend?". Her tone was like "hello stupid, people don't work on the weekend". And here I thought I was deployed to a war, working 7 days a week. The days I had "off" were days I was sitting in BRAVO alert, yet many deployed folks work 8-4, Monday through Friday, as though they are back home.

[afnav]

Back on topic from the epic threadjack,

The new WG/CC is an enigma. He releases the Ramadan fiasco memo, and then opens up alcohol-in-rooms policy to everyone over E-7 in BPC.

Of course, just about anyone is an improvement over "...make no mistake...".

[backseatdriver]

alcohol-in-rooms policy to everyone over E-7 in BPC.

'Splain.

[afnav]

'Splain.

Under the previous regime of 'make no mistake', you had to be an O5 or E9 to have alcohol in your rooms in the BPC (365 only). The new guy has expanded it to E7 and above (basically all residents). It was ######ing hilarious that some fast-burner O5s were trusted to have alcohol in their rooms when they were four or five years younger than me as an O4.

[slacker]

So, if you're doing 120, you can't be trusted with booze? classic.

[addict]

There are certain themes that arise from each visit. The theme grows from the most common excuse the crew is given at enroute locations. Things like "Sorry, shift-change" or "I just came on shift" or the ubiquitous "I'm new", "Are you joking", "Sorry, I was just on the phone", "AFN rocks", "Try the break room", "Only one crewmember allowed in at a time", "Shift change", and did I mention, "Sorry, the last people on shift left 6 hours ago and the next shift is still in their rooms watching AFN Movie Channel, but I just called and they're on their way, it'll be about 30 minutes because your 30-minute out / alert didn't include me checking on life support/trans/anyone/tacc/atoc/I alerted you and then took a break/I can't read a form 59/G-2 print outs are illegible but if I hit print that's good enough/, please wait". At Al Udeid it is simply "You'll have to wait" which is above average. -rant

Edited August 21, 2009 by addict

[JarheadBoom]

There are certain themes that arise from each visit. The theme grows from the most common excuse the crew is given at enroute locations. Things like "Sorry, shift-change" or "I just came on shift" or the ubiquitous "I'm new", "Are you joking", "Sorry, I was just on the phone", "AFN rocks", "Try the break room", "Only one crewmember allowed in at a time", "Shift change", and did I mention, "Sorry, the last people on shift left 6 hours ago and the next shift is still in their rooms watching AFN Movie Channel, but I just called and they're on their way, it'll be about 30 minutes because your 30-minute out / alert didn't include me checking on life support/trans/anyone/tacc/atoc/I alerted you and then took a break/I can't read a form 59/G-2 print outs are illegible but if I hit print that's good enough/, please wait". At Al Udeid it is simply "You'll have to wait" which is above average. -rant

I'd really like to choke-slam the next person that tells me they can't perform their job because "it's shift change"...

[brabus]

I'd really like to choke-slam the next person that tells me they can't perform their job because "it's shift change"...

Maybe someone should put a jet in a dive and then tell the pax, "yeah we can't fix this for about another 30 min, we're in the middle of transferring aircraft control. What, you say we'll hit the ground before that...yeah sorry, nothing I can do until transfer of aircraft control is complete."

[Jimmy.The.Engineer]

I've spent the better part of the last three days reading this post. I have laughed. I have cried. In my former unit, we went through the Died from time to time and, in later rotes, in/out processed the AOR to points north. I was there for the loadmaster building his own amnesty box (You can't beat that, no matter how hard you try.) and I was there when the no-job-havin douchebag called me (oops, I mean someone) out on the PT gear possibly being counterfeit.

Reading this made me fully appreciate my station. I am here to tell you that there is an Air Force out there which still focuses on what is important. I once had an outstanding AC who had a great motto: "There is shit that matters and there is shit that doesn't". I encourage all to take heart. There is an Air Force out here where we still know that. Our commanders use the F word at CC calls and still look sharp in their blues as well. "Move this from here to there. See you when you get back. We don't want to know any details about how you did it". I have seen the light and I now live on the Darkside.

In the spirit of this post. I believe if I brought up the Died to anyone here, I would get my ass kicked.

[Skitzo]

Wow, Gen Wilson, who once upon a time was Col Wilson and had to deal with a tricky cheating situation at Columbus circa 05. Wouldn't have thought that he would touch the Deid with a 10 foot pole. Seemed like a good guy to me, hope he's not stealing too many sorties from Bone Co's.

[Champ Kind]

Wow, Gen Wilson, who once upon a time was Col Wilson and had to deal with a tricky cheating situation at Columbus circa 05. Wouldn't have thought that he would touch the Deid with a 10 foot pole. Seemed like a good guy to me, hope he's not stealing too many sorties from Bone Co's.

I didn't even make the connection that it was him until you brought that up. I, too, was at CAFB during his tenure.

Agreed - he seemed like a good guy.

[Steve Davies]

If we piss off the "host nation" enough that they stop working with us effectively though, we're losing these small wars because the entire point of us being there is to stabilize these sh*t holes enough that violence at least doesn't spill out into the rest of the world.

I didn't realise that America was working to stabilise Qatar. I thought that the basing of combat assets at Al Udeid was the result of a marriage of convenience between Dohar and Washington. As such, it's peculiar to say the least for the US military to throw away in Qatar the very freedoms that it is fighting to introduce in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If we don't win the propaganda war in the eyes of the target country population the enemy will be endless and killing becomes pointless.

You actually need to win the propaganda war at home, first. This policy will not help you do that.

And quite how implementing a policy in Qatar that could actually harm your own people (no drinking water on the flightline) will allow you to strike a moral victory over the Taliban or AQ in Iraq or Afghanistan is beyond me.