Leadership at the 'Deid

[BQZip01]

If he's obviously an E and not a Sq/CC or higher, I'd simply turn around and say "I had to piss, I don't have time for this shit".

...or conversely "I had to shit and didn't even have time to piss..."

Well, the spa is no more. Ever see that episode of Mythbusters where they overpressured water heaters? Ya, it's kind of like that. 0500 today we hear BOOM (and mind you we were over in the trailers closer to the chow hall than the BX). No smoke on the horizon, so a quick investigation later we see the spa is TOTALLY wrecked.

Reminds me of a time back in the summer of '05. We hear and extremely loud "BOOM!" Myself and other leadership run outside to try and figure out what is going on. In the distance on the horizon, we see a Mirage rapidly climb and bank into a turn. The guy just wanted to lay a sonic boom down on us. In retrospect, it was kind of cool...

...but I looked at every person out there (2 full bird colonels, 5 LTCs, a few majors...basically all the senior leadership) and realized NONE of us had bothered to grab our flak jackets or helmets. If we really had been under attack, I'm pretty sure we'd be toast.

[HU&W]

Shoe: You need to wear socks

Me: Ok (walks away)

Classic.

[Techsan]

You hurt the feelings of some E3 and he's going to run high enough up his chain of command to find someone who make a lateral move to your commander who will then drop the hammer on you.

Your CC must not be worth a damn---mine would tell his boss that he'd deal with it, proceded by laughing it off with me behind closed doors.

Give the Amn a hurt feelings report:

hurt feelings report.pdf

[Royal]

Give the Amn a hurt feelings report:

hurt feelings report.pdf

While said E3 is filling that out, he can watch this:

[DFRESH]

While said E3 is filling that out, he can watch this:

**weird ass video**

Does that belong in the WTF thread... I don't get high, but I think you prolly should to watch that.

[Royal]

Does that belong in the WTF thread... I don't get high, but I think you prolly should to watch that.

An officer getting reprimanded by a subordinate for not wearing socks is pretty much a "WTF" situation.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Does that belong in the WTF thread...

WTF is exactly what I said to myself as I watched the video...

...but I looked at every person out there (2 full bird colonels, 5 LTCs, a few majors...basically all the senior leadership) and realized NONE of us had bothered to grab our flak jackets or helmets. If we really had been under attack, I'm pretty sure we'd be toast.

That's yet another point...at OTBH your chances of actually being in an attack requiring flak jackets (ie, sustained indirect fire attack) is virtually nil. IF you were ever to be attacked there, it would likely be one large boom and then it would be over.

The problem is, the shoes insist on doing idiotic things like canceling flying lines to get more aircrew to fill sandbags for the day when mortars and rockets come raining down...which we all know short of war with Iran, that's not going to happen. But it gives the shoes a cool story when they go home to tell their friends/family they were war heros.

[capt4fans]

Please people, stop posting about times you failed at being a man/officer.

Stiffler, again, engaging out here is just asking to get shot down. My way of dealing with things out here is to listen to their queep, and then walk away. Without correcting myself. And simply looking at them and deciding how I would answer them if I was able to.

Feel free to show me your man card and tell me how you would have handled the same situation.

[BQZip01]

That's yet another point...at OTBH your chances of actually being in an attack requiring flak jackets (ie, sustained indirect fire attack) is virtually nil. IF you were ever to be attacked there, it would likely be one large boom and then it would be over.

From another country? Absolutely. It would likely be a series of explosions (it ain't a small base). From my math, the center of the runway at AUAB is 2 minutes and 14 seconds from Iranian airspace at Mach 2.

However, I don't think any of us were thinking about a strike from Iran, but a terrorism attack where someone smuggled/drove a bomb onto the base; that is certainly a plausible option.

The problem is, the shoes insist on doing idiotic things like canceling flying lines to get more aircrew to fill sandbags for the day when mortars and rockets come raining down...which we all know short of war with Iran, that's not going to happen. But it gives the shoes a cool story when they go home to tell their friends/family they were war heros.

1. Canceling flight lines to fill sandbags is DUMB

2. Other than terror harassment, you won't see mortars at AUAB, they simply don't have the range

3. Iran is just stupid enough to try and lob a few missiles at AUAB just to see if they can get a reaction to justify an all-out war.

Having those bunkers prepared is a good idea. Spending too much time on them and doing so at the detriment of more pressing matters is not.

[Stiffler]

Stiffler, again, engaging out here is just asking to get shot down. My way of dealing with things out here is to listen to their queep, and then walk away. Without correcting myself. And simply looking at them and deciding how I would answer them if I was able to.

Feel free to show me your man card and tell me how you would have handled the same situation.

Ya I guess so. I just want to be in your position and tell the kid to do push ups or something. Where I go we dont have all the REMF queep, but I guess the main bases do. I just think if ALL officers at once started standing up, it would all end. Although until that miraculous day, I guess you get your pee pee schwacked from above... which is a crying shame.

[Bergman]

Guys, I think help is on the way. I've only been here for a couple of weeks, but in that time I've gotten what I consider to be a decent look at how the new Wg/CC does business. I like it. For example...he spent 6 hours pulling concertina wire and literally digging ditches, he has flown at least 2 tanker sorties so far - one of which he spent almost 7 hours hand flying just to get a feel for the airplane, and has also pulled TCN and dumpster diving duty. I'm not trying to sound like an AFN commercial here, but after talking with him personally and hearing first-hand accounts of how he's doing business, he seems legit.

I can only hope that he brings the same changes here that Col H brought to Manas!

It's been over a year since I've been here, and I can say that there is noticeably less queep now. I don't doubt the recent stories of the sock patrol and such, but I can tell you that my trailer is 178 steps from the cadillac (yes, I have been bored enough already to count). I have made the trek several times with no belt/shirt untucked and haven't had one person say anything. When they do, a good "thanks" will suffice and then press on. Don't let the little shit ruin your day.

Basically, deploying to CENTCOM hasn't changed much since 1997 IMHO. At least we can still have a few beers here (as opposed to PSAB)

[xaarman]

Wing CC flew with our squadron. Heard he wasn't a bad guy, but lacked a personality. Also, no one has ever corrected me on anything at all yet, uniform wise, and I've been here for a significant time now.

edit: Would have handled the situation exactly as it was above

Edited August 9, 2010 by xaarman

[Vertigo]

...or conversely "I had to shit and didn't even have time to piss..."

Reminds me of a time back in the summer of '05. We hear and extremely loud "BOOM!" Myself and other leadership run outside to try and figure out what is going on. In the distance on the horizon, we see a Mirage rapidly climb and bank into a turn. The guy just wanted to lay a sonic boom down on us. In retrospect, it was kind of cool...

...but I looked at every person out there (2 full bird colonels, 5 LTCs, a few majors...basically all the senior leadership) and realized NONE of us had bothered to grab our flak jackets or helmets. If we really had been under attack, I'm pretty sure we'd be toast.

Ha! That reminds me of my time in ORAT in '06. A small handfull of us AF working with a very large contingent of USMC. We hadn't been in country a few days when we received a series of 6 to 7 mortar/rocket rounds. A few quite close (100 yards or so) from our building. Without hesitation the three of us Air Force go running out of our building with no vest/helmet/gear of any kind just to see exactly how close those rounds hit (also not even wondering if the attack had ceased or was just paused)... after making our assesment we return back into the building where, of course, the marines have donned full protective gear and taken shelter under whatever they could find.. I had to laugh at our stupidity.

The only time I got really concerned was when a siren I had never heard before went off and the Marines we were working with looked at each other with very concerned faces, loaded and then charged their weapons. Ours were locked in a Conex some 50 yards away. Nothing came of that incident but when I saw the concern on their faces that was when I got worried... I started carrying my weapon a bit more frequently after that.

[Hacker]

I much preferred the reaction at Bagram by the local Army folks when we were getting rocketed very early in the morning. After the 'boom' and the siren going off, the Army guys just stayed in their racks while I wrestled with my vest and helmet.

After the 'all clear', I asked them what the deal was. Their reply -- all the attacks at Bagram are hit-and-run. By the time the rockets hit, the launcher is all ready long gone. So, by the time you wake up, put all your crap on, and run to the shelter, the attack is over. So, unless you actually got hit with the initial rounds, you weren't going to get hit...and thus it was better just to stay in bed and get additional sleep.

[Guest]

I much preferred the reaction at Bagram by the local Army folks when we were getting rocketed very early in the morning. After the 'boom' and the siren going off, the Army guys just stayed in their racks while I wrestled with my vest and helmet.

After the 'all clear', I asked them what the deal was. Their reply -- all the attacks at Bagram are hit-and-run. By the time the rockets hit, the launcher is all ready long gone. So, by the time you wake up, put all your crap on, and run to the shelter, the attack is over. So, unless you actually got hit with the initial rounds, you weren't going to get hit...and thus it was better just to stay in bed and get additional sleep.

Except for the one time they do two attacks and they miss with the first but hit with the second...DOH!

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Bat Belt v2.0 is done. Pics, as promised.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Napoleon_Tanerite

[Royal]

Bet Belt v2.0 is done. Pics, as promised.

You may have made that thing so epic that you've done yourself a disservice. Meaning there's a good chance you'll be tempted to wear it to a bar with your civilian clothes.

[Torch169]

I won't use names here, but the relatively new OG commander here at Bagram with the 455th is rapidly taking over the number one spot on the "Most Likely to be Shot by His Own People" list. At the very least, he has alienated the entire C-130 community here by deriding our maintenance, calling us lazy, disrespectful, unprofessional pilots, claiming that he could fix our scheduling issues in 2 hours, and calling at least five members to meet with him about "blatant disregard for rules" (Their shirts were untucked while walking to the overflowing porta-johns). Another story involving his wrath was told to me by a FAST guy we had today. I had to sit down when he was telling me the story. Here goes: Airman so-n-so lives in the same dorm complex as Col. L___. As the airman is using the facility, he notices that his hand has broke through the one-ply toilet paper, resulting in fecal matter being on his hand. When he completes his ass wiping, he proceeds out of the stall with shirt untucked, so as to prevent fecal matter from getting on his shirt. Col L just happened to be in the can at the same time and spots the airman with his shirt untucked, washing his hands. The colonel proceeds to chew the kid's ass, asking him why he would choose to break the rules and demonstrate irresponsibility and a lack of integrity. In the end, the colonel ordered the airman to meet with his boss, the MSG commander, about his shirt being untucked. I asked the airman if he honestly has to take time out of a mission support group commander's day to discuss a t-shirt being untucked, in a latrine, while the kid is washing his hands; all the airman did was nod. I am still in disbelief.

Obviously, we have all had some incredibly horrible bosses, but I think this guy might be the worst that I have seen in 11 years. He, along with his two XO's (yes, he has two executive officers), have been on a nightly rampage for the past week, busting people for everything from no disco belt, to shirts untucked, to shoes not tied, to strings hanging out of pt shorts, to smoking in unauthorized spots, to shirts that are visibly wet from sweat that has acquired during workouts. B-hut row is now known as "Tin Pan Alley." LOR's are being threatened for uniform violations. In what is, perhaps, the biggest sign that this slug has completely lost sight of what his job is here at Bagram: a flying line has been lost so that he can have a meeting with two crewmembers regarding their shirts being untucked while conversing outside their B-hut. This man's personal quest to ensure that everyone is following rules of dress and appearance is adversely affecting flying operations. I've began wondering if that is suitable material for filing an IG complaint.

I almost forgot another funny story: We had a guy meet with the wise colonel about an illegal (Hawaiian) shirt that was being worn in one of the common areas in Tin Pan Alley. The colonel, in his grand wisdom, asked "So, when you were wearing the illegal shirt, was it tucked in?"

Please let me know if you know this colonel that I am talking about. I would love to know where he completely derailed...

[BQZip01]

I won't use names here, but the relatively new OG commander here at Bagram with the 455th is rapidly taking over the number one spot on the "Most Likely to be Shot by His Own People" list. At the very least, he has alienated the entire C-130 community here by deriding our maintenance, calling us lazy, disrespectful, unprofessional pilots, claiming that he could fix our scheduling issues in 2 hours, and calling at least five members to meet with him about "blatant disregard for rules" (Their shirts were untucked while walking to the overflowing porta-johns). Another story involving his wrath was told to me by a FAST guy we had today. I had to sit down when he was telling me the story. Here goes: Airman so-n-so lives in the same dorm complex as Col. L___. As the airman is using the facility, he notices that his hand has broke through the one-ply toilet paper, resulting in fecal matter being on his hand. When he completes his ass wiping, he proceeds out of the stall with shirt untucked, so as to prevent fecal matter from getting on his shirt. Col L just happened to be in the can at the same time and spots the airman with his shirt untucked, washing his hands. The colonel proceeds to chew the kid's ass, asking him why he would choose to break the rules and demonstrate irresponsibility and a lack of integrity. In the end, the colonel ordered the airman to meet with his boss, the MSG commander, about his shirt being untucked. I asked the airman if he honestly has to take time out of a mission support group commander's day to discuss a t-shirt being untucked, in a latrine, while the kid is washing his hands; all the airman did was nod. I am still in disbelief.

Obviously, we have all had some incredibly horrible bosses, but I think this guy might be the worst that I have seen in 11 years. He, along with his two XO's (yes, he has two executive officers), have been on a nightly rampage for the past week, busting people for everything from no disco belt, to shirts untucked, to shoes not tied, to strings hanging out of pt shorts, to smoking in unauthorized spots, to shirts that are visibly wet from sweat that has acquired during workouts. B-hut row is now known as "Tin Pan Alley." LOR's are being threatened for uniform violations. In what is, perhaps, the biggest sign that this slug has completely lost sight of what his job is here at Bagram: a flying line has been lost so that he can have a meeting with two crewmembers regarding their shirts being untucked while conversing outside their B-hut. This man's personal quest to ensure that everyone is following rules of dress and appearance is adversely affecting flying operations. I've began wondering if that is suitable material for filing an IG complaint.

I almost forgot another funny story: We had a guy meet with the wise colonel about an illegal (Hawaiian) shirt that was being worn in one of the common areas in Tin Pan Alley. The colonel, in his grand wisdom, asked "So, when you were wearing the illegal shirt, was it tucked in?"

Please let me know if you know this colonel that I am talking about. I would love to know where he completely derailed...

I have no direct knowledge on the subject, however, I would caution you regarding this. You obviously aren't calling out any names, but here's a news article regarding said unit: https://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123208292

1. He has only been a group commander for a couple of months and while his actions might not seem to be in much context (and the first story above leaves me just aghast), take into account he may be trying to present a "tough guy image" and that he is not to be trifled with. General Patton did the same thing and he produced results "Hell, I don't want them to like me. I want them to fight!"

2. He's the group commander and, while he may be cutting down on fun and adversely affecting morale, he may be under orders to crack down on infractions. He isn't paid to be liked, but to be a commander. Anything he does affecting the mission is brought down on him and he has to answer as to why a mission didn't go. That's his prerogative.

3. Multiple execs isn't unusual even at large squadrons. I was an OG exec and we had 4 with two deputy commanders.

4. I find it amazing that anyone is being criticized for how they are dressed in the bathroom. When I was at an unnamed military school, that was one place that you could be out of uniform. The only other place was your room. If you want to have a small rebellion on the matter, make sure EVERYONE untucks their shirt when entering the bathroom, but tuck it back in before leaving. Next time you know he's going to be around, have a few guys take a shower fully clothed and walk by him (saluting of course)

5. A few batman reflective belts wouldn't hurt.

[tac airlifter]

Just returned from Bagram, and I thought it was the easiest deployment I've ever had in terms of queep. Not one word was said to me about my rolled up sleeves or civilian jacket with my flight suit. I didn't wear AF PT gear the entire time. Sorry to hear about that one guy, but for my boss mission was definitely the number one priority and nothing else mattered.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

5. A few batman reflective belts wouldn't hurt.

heyheyheyhey! that's MY schtick!

[pawnman]

Just returned from Bagram, and I thought it was the easiest deployment I've ever had in terms of queep. Not one word was said to me about my rolled up sleeves or civilian jacket with my flight suit. I didn't wear AF PT gear the entire time. Sorry to hear about that one guy, but for my boss mission was definitely the number one priority and nothing else mattered.

More proof that the Deid is not a combat location.

Bat Belt v2.0 is done. Pics, as promised.

Where can I get a black reflective belt like that?

[Guest]

I have no direct knowledge on the subject, however, I would caution you regarding this. You obviously aren't calling out any names, but here's a news article regarding said unit: https://www.bagram.afcent.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123208292

Point noted. Let's just consider a generic OG/CC for discussion purposes.

1. He has only been a group commander for a couple of months and while his actions might not seem to be in much context (and the first story above leaves me just aghast), take into account he may be trying to present a "tough guy image" and that he is not to be trifled with. General Patton did the same thing and he produced results "Hell, I don't want them to like me. I want them to fight!"

Hang on a fucking minute.

First, he's not Patton nor is he facing what Patton was facing. Congratulations. You just compared ice cream to Tuesday.

If he's a true leader he will not have to try to "present a 'tough guy image'." He just needs to lead from the front and measure what matters and recognize and reward the people who are getting the mission done, at all levels.

For example...

I doubt Robin Olds ever felt he needed to run around yelling "chins are in!" everytime he saw an untucked shirt in the shitter in order to present a tough guy image.

Leading from the front and killing the enemy is a pretty effective technique, unless you suck.

2. He's the group commander and, while he may be cutting down on fun and adversely affecting morale, he may be under orders to crack down on infractions.

C'mon, that's BS and you know it. You don't have to shit all over people.

He isn't paid to be liked, but to be a commander. Anything he does affecting the mission is brought down on him and he has to answer as to why a mission didn't go. That's his prerogative.

Weak argument. You're saying it is his perogative to shit on people for queep because he has to cover his ass. Are you actually in any way relating shitting on people for queep with "anwering as to why a mission didn't go?" Please.

3. Multiple execs isn't unusual even at large squadrons. I was an OG exec and we had 4 with two deputy commanders.

Moot point.

You don't need all those people to get the job done downrange. Period fucking dot.

4. I find it amazing that anyone is being criticized for how they are dressed in the bathroom. When I was at an unnamed military school, that was one place that you could be out of uniform. The only other place was your room. If you want to have a small rebellion on the matter, make sure EVERYONE untucks their shirt when entering the bathroom, but tuck it back in before leaving. Next time you know he's going to be around, have a few guys take a shower fully clothed and walk by him (saluting of course)

5. A few batman reflective belts wouldn't hurt.

That's one way to deal with it, probably be kind of fun.

Unfortunately, the worst part of a scenario like this is people's morale is built around developing creative ways to fuck with the leadership instead of feeling good about being downrange and led by a true warrior, knowing you may never have it this good again.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Rainman A-10

[Beaver]

What do you expect from a guy with sleeve creases in his flightsuit?

[Guest Crew Report]

I bet he won't pass his tail number over the radio either