Bergman Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 So true. We eat our own. I like listening to old hands who were in during the eighties! C'mon now! Eighties? That's a bit before my time. Maybe Rainman or M2 can shed some light on that decade. Jeebus - I'm glad I'm not in YOUR squadron. No beer AND dudes trying to fuck me? No thanks. Nice.
M2 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 C'mon now! Eighties? That's a bit before my time. Maybe Rainman or M2 can shed some light on that decade.: Ronald Reagan was president. What else needs to be said?
Guest Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 C'mon now! Eighties? That's a bit before my time. Maybe Rainman or M2 can shed some light on that decade. I have. It is a little difficult for many to contemplate or even believe. Eagle guys were going to ball walk to the merge inside the threat rings and outnumbered 10:1 BUFFs sitting on nuke alert 24/7/365 with a game plan to penetrate low level and bail out on the return somewhere over the polar ice cap. Hogs had a thirty second life expectancy above 100' (total exposure time per sortie). Land on the highways to FOL, quick turn forward firing only. No CSAR so make sure you step with a compass and a good pair of boots. LGPOS were tasked with Kamikaze one way nuke missions. F-111 drivers stepped with eye patches. Tankers were for the bombers. Airlift was for bringing as many families home from USAFE as possible assuming there would be some warning and they were not coming back because the bases were all going to be slimed. To sum it up, you could fly under bridges and not lose your wings. This is what we've all been waiting for boys, launch the fleet...Ivan's finally movin' west!
BQZip01 Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 I have. It is a little difficult for many to contemplate or even believe. Eagle guys were going to ball walk to the merge inside the threat rings and outnumbered 10:1 BUFFs sitting on nuke alert 24/7/365 with a game plan to penetrate low level and bail out on the return somewhere over the polar ice cap. Hogs had a thirty second life expectancy above 100' (total exposure time per sortie). Land on the highways to FOL, quick turn forward firing only. No CSAR so make sure you step with a compass and a good pair of boots. LGPOS were tasked with Kamikaze one way nuke missions. F-111 drivers stepped with eye patches. Tankers were for the bombers. Airlift was for bringing as many families home from USAFE as possible assuming there would be some warning and they were not coming back because the bases were all going to be slimed. To sum it up, you could fly under bridges and not lose your wings. This is what we've all been waiting for boys, launch the fleet...Ivan's finally movin' west! ahhhhhhh,,,the good ol' days...
Guest Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 ahhhhhhh,,,the good ol' days... Not all glory. We used to put a lot of jets in the dirt training for this. Of course, we had 43 full up three squadron fighter wings in the USAF, including over 700 A-10s. And we didn't fly at night.
MKopack Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) I have. It is a little difficult for many to contemplate or even believe. Amazing just how much times have changed. Almost reads like bad fiction today - who'd believe it? From an enlisted perspective, all of the exercises from our "deployed location" ended with a nuke elephant walk and we knew, "real world", in that scenario our LGPOS's were never coming back. Not only that, but we were told, by number, the Soviet airborne regiment that was assigned to drop on our location along with the timing. Once our birds were gone, our part in the show was over. Edited March 1, 2012 by MKopack
338skybolt Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 BUFFs sitting on nuke alert 24/7/365 with a game plan to penetrate low level and bail out on the return somewhere over the polar ice cap. Along with 24/7/365 Looking Glass flights. I was an RJ guy ('86-'94) but shared the same flightline (along with NEACP). Pretty interesting times indeed. 1
WABoom Posted March 1, 2012 Posted March 1, 2012 It's so sad that some kid in 15-20 yrs will say these were the good ol days.
B52Herc Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 So true. We eat our own. I like listening to old hands who were in during the eighties! It was different in some ways . . . (and though I would never have seen the whole SIOP . . . . "bail out over the polar ice cap" . . . . our location was a little warmer!), but the captains in 1985 are the senior leadership today. One of the best officers I knew at that grade was the subject of some ridicule on this thread, and having not seen him for 20+ years I've no basis to dispute the posts. Old heads asks here and on other posts "what happened?" My sense of it is that the more dramatic shifts in structure and subtle abdication of leadership have occurred mainly in just the past 10 years . . . but things that were understood and accepted in 1983, were already out of sync by 1990, and that pattern continues. Things will change, and the challenge is to try and influence change in better directions so that we can keep bringing the fight (or supporting the fight).
Napoleon_Tanerite Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) It was different in some ways . . . (and though I would never have seen the whole SIOP . . . . "bail out over the polar ice cap" . . . . our location was a little warmer!), but the captains in 1985 are the senior leadership today. One of the best officers I knew at that grade was the subject of some ridicule on this thread, and having not seen him for 20+ years I've no basis to dispute the posts. Old heads asks here and on other posts "what happened?" My sense of it is that the more dramatic shifts in structure and subtle abdication of leadership have occurred mainly in just the past 10 years . . . but things that were understood and accepted in 1983, were already out of sync by 1990, and that pattern continues. Things will change, and the challenge is to try and influence change in better directions so that we can keep bringing the fight (or supporting the fight). The problem isn't the Air Force, it's the "everyone's a winner" mentality that has permeated American society as a whole, and thus has also infected the military. Keep in mind that the majority of O-4 and below and E-7 and below (myself included) come from the "participation trophy" generation, and the WORST thing you could possibly do to someone is hurt their all-important self esteem. This leads to stupidity like a services squadron with "tip of the spear" as their squadron motto. Far too people are not willing to accept their role as a supporting player, and have been fed the line of bullshit that the world revolves around them for FAR longer than they have been in the military. Edited March 2, 2012 by Napoleon_Tanerite
matmacwc Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Your tip of the spear reminds me of my trip to Misawa from Osan, saw that motto while I was in Japan, made me laugh/pissed at the same time. We joked they were more the shaft than the tip compared to where they were living to us.
Danger41 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 The problem isn't the Air Force, it's the "everyone's a winner" mentality that has permeated American society as a whole, and thus has also infected the military. Keep in mind that the majority of O-4 and below and E-7 and below (myself included) come from the "participation trophy" generation, and the WORST thing you could possibly do to someone is hurt their all-important self esteem. You said it, brother. Watch this video about the Iowa Hawkeye wrestling team from 2002; Specifically listen to what Tom Brands says from 4:53-5:18. That is the type of attitude we need in this country. 1 1
B52Herc Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Far too [many] people are not willing to accept their role as a supporting player, . . . I'm cautious about attributing these changes to any one thing . . . but I suspect that you're hitting at least one of the nails squarely on the head. Do you think the USAF Creed reflects this, or contributes to this? I'll admit to finding that thing a little cult-like (I just sort of feel repelled when this gets chanted). I don't see the shooters out there memorizing it, but it's HUGE with support folks and seems to resonate particularly with the mid level NCOs. Don't mean to hijack L-ship at the Deid, but I think there might be a link. Please don't interpret as a knock on support (it's pretty much what I do now) - most still "get it", but it does not take many to alter the picture.
Tank Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Tom Brands is the man. Great quote and totally relevant to the topic at hand but Brands is an ass!
M1NG Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I've been out for 20 years, and I was just an enlisted life support puke (do they even call it that anymore?) Everybody wore BDU's, us, the Army, the Marines, the Navy...we all wore the same shit, with black boots and black or tan t-shirts and nobody gave a shit if you rolled your sleeves up or not, or if the zippers on your flight suit were up or down. Baseball caps with squadron insignia. Pilots bringing us beer on Fridays (this may still happen) The missile wing and guys in silos (I was at Ellsworth) and nuke-armed B-1's on the alert pad. Getting jacked up hard at the same pad for forgetting my password. PLZT goggles. The wing king walking in the shop one Monday morning to catch most of us lying on the counters and floor hooked up to 100% O2 to cure our hangovers, and he just laughed at us. I never wore a reflective belt, and in 4 years I never once witnessed an enlisted person of any rank try to correct an officer for anything, let alone a uniform issue. 4
BQZip01 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 I never wore a reflective belt, and in 4 years I never once witnessed an enlisted person of any rank try to correct an officer for anything, let alone a uniform issue. Since you've been out, the Shoeclerks have taken over WAY too much. Al Udeid is their Mecca (irony intended).
BFM this Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Since you've been out, the Shoeclerks have taken over WAY too much. Al Udeid is their Mecca (irony intended). AKA: the inmates are running the asylum Edited March 2, 2012 by BFM this
Beaver Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 Your tip of the spear reminds me of my trip to Misawa from Osan, saw that motto while I was in Japan, made me laugh/pissed at the same time. We joked they were more the shaft than the tip compared to where they were living to us. That's weird because when I was at Misawa I actually fought in a war, shot at people and got shot at while the dudes in Korea sat and pulled their puds like they've been doing for the last 60 years.
Tank Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 That's weird because when I was at Misawa I actually fought in a war, shot at people and got shot at while the dudes in Korea sat and pulled their puds like they've been doing for the last 60 years. But were you always "Ready to Fight Tonight"?
Guest Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 shot at people C'mon dude. I know you know how to handle a weapon. You don't shoot "at" people.
Beaver Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 C'mon dude. I know you know how to handle a weapon. You don't shoot "at" people. Well, they were HARMs, soooo....
Danger41 Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 J Robinson is the man. Momentary thread hijack: Did you know he was a Ranger back in the Vietnam days? I went through one of his "Intensive" camps and he told us all that he structured it on Ranger school. It was a giant kick in the balls, but took me from an also ran to setting the state pin record in one year. 28 of the shittiest/most worthwhile days of my life courtesy of J Robinson.
Shortbus Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Dammit, I just got chiefed and it was my own stupid fault. Went back to my "room" to change into PTs for the gym, it was dark - roommate was sleeping - so I put my stupid sweatshirt on backwards. Man, that dude must have seem my dumb ass coming (sts) from a mile away with that stupid ginormous reflective AF symbol across my chest.. He executed a cutoff at the door to the gym and proceeded to tell me how to wear it. Which, ok yeah, I was a retard, however MY assumption would have been that person with said sweatshirt on backwards was in a hurry, had low SA, etc. NOT that he didn't know how to wear it properly. Thanks chief, I'm now a better airman. I swear the bastard was giddy. Edit - Oh, I'm not at the Died, just seemed fitting to post that here.. Edited March 6, 2012 by Shortbus 1
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