Leadership at the 'Deid

[Duck]

Do tell. I know they have rotations forward deploying from there.

Yeah, and it isn’t like where they are deployed is a secret either considering every AF news agency reported the exact location.

[Bergman]

7 hours ago, Goblin said:

Any tanker bubbas over at the Deid right now? I’ve heard some pretty interesting things about the squadron there lately..

I'm headed over there soon.  Have been told that the Sq/CC is a typical clown act more interested in making O6 than actually taking care of the crews. Anecdotal evidence verifies....Was forwarded a lengthy email directly from said clown concerning approved patches and hat wear.  Focusing on the important stuff apparently.  SMH.

 

edit to add: have been told they are using 8 hour show-time windows for crews now.  Apparently the way we've done it for 15 years wasn't good enough for this guy so they're re-inventing the wheel.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Bergman

[Duck]

I'm headed over there soon.  Have been told that the Sq/CC is a typical clown act more interested in making O6 than actually taking care of the crews. Anecdotal evidence verifies....Was forwarded a lengthy email directly from said clown concerning approved patches and hat wear.  Focusing on the important stuff apparently.  SMH.
 
edit to add: have been told they are using 8 hour show-time windows for crews now.  Apparently the way we've done it for 15 years wasn't good enough for this guy so they're re-inventing the wheel.

Deployed clown commander...sounds like Tanker Standard to me!

[ThreeHoler]

I'm headed over there soon.  Have been told that the Sq/CC is a typical clown act more interested in making O6 than actually taking care of the crews. Anecdotal evidence verifies....Was forwarded a lengthy email directly from said clown concerning approved patches and hat wear.  Focusing on the important stuff apparently.  SMH.
 
edit to add: have been told they are using 8 hour show-time windows for crews now.  Apparently the way we've done it for 15 years wasn't good enough for this guy so they're re-inventing the wheel.

That shitshow should be three separate squadrons.

[Goblin]

I'm headed over there soon.  Have been told that the Sq/CC is a typical clown act more interested in making O6 than actually taking care of the crews. Anecdotal evidence verifies....Was forwarded a lengthy email directly from said clown concerning approved patches and hat wear.  Focusing on the important stuff apparently.  SMH.

 

edit to add: have been told they are using 8 hour show-time windows for crews now.  Apparently the way we've done it for 15 years wasn't good enough for this guy so they're re-inventing the wheel.

 

The last I heard people were complaining about flying out of their windows so much (due to terrible scheduling) that they got rid of windows to stop the complaints. A buddy of mine out there now has been there for a week and has flown in all 3 “shifts” already.

[SurelySerious]

57 minutes ago, Goblin said:

 

The last I heard people were complaining about flying out of their windows so much (due to terrible scheduling) that they got rid of windows to stop the complaints. A buddy of mine out there now has been there for a week and has flown in all 3 “shifts” already.

Classic move; you can't be out of the window if it doesn't exist. 

[Azimuth]

11 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

That shitshow should be three separate squadrons.
 

 

Reopen Manas.

[TnkrToad]

Deployed clown commander...sounds like Tanker Standard to me!

My guess is it has something to do with the youth movement in tanker leadership, combined with the lack of tanker experience among those leaders.

Case in point: the ARW/CCs at both McConnell and Seymour Johnson are dudes who pinned on O-6 at 18 yrs and are Wg/CCs at 20 yrs into their careers. Both assiduously avoided the air refueling community for at least a decade.

The McConnell CC never previously flew the KC-135, and the last time he flew the KC-10 was 2005.

The SJ commander is slightly better; he actually started in the KC-135, but was gone from the community for 13 years, from ‘03-‘16.

If the Wg leadership’s dearth of tanker experience is any indication of group & squadron CCs’ backgrounds, clueless/clownish leadership should come as no surprise.

You want good leaders? Put people who know what they’re doing in those jobs.

TT

[fou]

On 10/15/2017 at 8:25 PM, viper154 said:

Condor mesh back. Amazon. I’m a diviant and have a flag patch on front with my Capt rank pinned through it. I’m also at a different centcom “garden spot”. Apparently some leadership type was “worried” about the Velcro showing on the sides with just the Velcro rank. Beats me because the last time I checked there is exposed Velcro all over a Flight uniform 

I think I pulled the trigger on that one as I saw your post.  Arrived today.  Thanks.

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

The McConnell CC never previously flew the KC-135, and the last time he flew the KC-10 was 2005.

Yeah, that guy is definitely wearing eyebrow makeup in his photo

https://www.mcconnell.af.mil/Heritage/Biographies/Display/Article/1259662/colonel-joshua-m-olson/

 

[Champ Kind]

The McConnell CC never previously flew the KC-135, and the last time he flew the KC-10 was 2005.

Mixed reviews from his time in the C-130 community.

You want good leaders? Put people who know what they’re doing in those jobs.

Credibility over "breadth"? It'll never happen in the MAF.

[Weezer]

5 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Reopen Manas.

Not really an option.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kyrgyzstan-usa-manas/u-s-vacates-base-in-central-asia-as-russias-clout-rises-idUSKBN0EE1LH20140603

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, Day Man said:

Yeah, that guy is definitely wearing eyebrow makeup in his photo

https://www.mcconnell.af.mil/Heritage/Biographies/Display/Article/1259662/colonel-joshua-m-olson/

 

Holy crap, we were in the same SUPT class, he had a lot more hair back then.  I cannot speak to his leadership, but he was a good dude.

Edited October 17, 2017 by matmacwc

[ThreeHoler]

J O was a good dude as a Capt. Don't know anything since he left the KC-10 in 2005.

[Duck]

Possibly alopecia as a result of anthrax shots? A guy at my old unit ended up having his hair fall out shortly after anthrax shots. Was diagnosed with alopecia, but I mean anthrax shots are 100% safe. The military would never use us as guinea pigs.

[HossHarris]

Peckerhead

[TnkrToad]

J O was a good dude as a Capt. Don't know anything since he left the KC-10 in 2005.

My point is not about whether or not J O and Smokey Currin, in this case, are good dudes. I assume they are. If you combine folks with minimal tanker experience at the wing level, with folks who have minimal tanker experience at the group and squadron levels, you’re going to get clownish decisions—even if they’re all good dudes.

Sprinkle in a bad apple here and there—it’s inevitable that at least some will end up as golden boys—and your odds of clownish behavior increase all the more.

In sum, if tanker leaders come across as clowns, they’re directly reflecting the MAF leader development clown show.

If you want competent tanker leaders, you need folks who’ve spent substantial portions of their careers in the tanker community. Furthermore, you need competent, experienced tanker bubbas to steer young Wg/CCs away from bad decisions, before they make them. Unfortunately, AMC doesn’t seem to have gotten that memo.

TT

[BashiChuni]

good dude does not equal good leader

[flyusaf83]

24 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

good dude does not equal good leader

This. I get tired of hearing that phrase to describe the same old bad leadership. I don’t care if someone was a “good dude” before they get to the DO level. Let’s see how they are when they have something to lose.  Let’s see if they’ll fight up or fight down, once they start becoming part of that Big Blue Club (BBC).  

For most leaders, once they start deepthroating, they become addicted to BBC.

[snoopyeast]

My ex-wife used that same excuse!

[dream big]

7 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

 

My guess is it has something to do with the youth movement in tanker leadership, combined with the lack of tanker experience among those leaders.

Case in point: the ARW/CCs at both McConnell and Seymour Johnson are dudes who pinned on O-6 at 18 yrs and are Wg/CCs at 20 yrs into their careers. Both assiduously avoided the air refueling community for at least a decade.

The McConnell CC never previously flew the KC-135, and the last time he flew the KC-10 was 2005.

The SJ commander is slightly better; he actually started in the KC-135, but was gone from the community for 13 years, from ‘03-‘16.

If the Wg leadership’s dearth of tanker experience is any indication of group & squadron CCs’ backgrounds, clueless/clownish leadership should come as no surprise.

You want good leaders? Put people who know what they’re doing in those jobs.

TT
 

 

Along the same lines, I don’t know what AMC’s obsession is with mis-matching leadership from different communities.  For instance, 3/4 active duty C-130 wing commanders come from other communities.  They, just like you mentioned, have rose up the “Phoenix horizon”/general’s aid track actively avoiding the ops community.  I am skeptical about a C-130 dude leading a tanker wing and vice versa.  

Correct me if I’m wrong but the CAF doesn’t usually do this right? F-16 Wing Kings are predominantly 16 dudes, F-15 Wing Kings predominantly 15 dudes.  I feel that the CAF values depth, while AMC values breadth - and that is where why we are struggling as a community. 

[matmacwc]

30 minutes ago, dream big said:

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but the CAF doesn’t usually do this right? F-16 Wing Kings are predominantly 16 dudes, F-15 Wing Kings predominantly 15 dudes.  I feel that the CAF values depth, while AMC values breadth - and that is where why we are struggling as a community. 

Sort of, but sometimes the young/patch/2 below/never a DO/WGCC's boy takes over your squadron and all you can do is shake your head in disbelief the first year of their command.  The fighter community is a small, close knit community but it's difficult to breach the door into the "chosen" few, most of their bios look like they went to college for the first 18 years of their career.

[RTB]

5 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

Credibility over "breadth"? It'll never happen in the MAF.

 

That just seems so weird to a career CAF guy.  Can't fathom having a guy leading a Sq/Gp/Wg who didn't have huge credibility in the jet.  The only exceptions I saw during my time were during transitions to new jets like the F-22 when there were no experienced F-22 O-5s/6s.

What is the rationale in the MAF for doing this broadening thing?  I've heard so many bad stories about it I'm surprised the MAF keeps doing it.

[SurelySerious]

8 minutes ago, RTB said:

That just seems so weird to a career CAF guy.  Can't fathom having a guy leading a Sq/Gp/Wg who didn't have huge credibility in the jet.  The only exceptions I saw during my time were during transitions to new jets like the F-22 when there were no experienced F-22 O-5s/6s.

What is the rationale in the MAF for doing this broadening thing?  I've heard so many bad stories about it I'm surprised the MAF keeps doing it.

AFGSC is trying to imitate. Thanks for picking out the best qualities to try out AF GS comm. 

[NKAWTG]

1 hour ago, RTB said:

That just seems so weird to a career CAF guy.  Can't fathom having a guy leading a Sq/Gp/Wg who didn't have huge credibility in the jet.  The only exceptions I saw during my time were during transitions to new jets like the F-22 when there were no experienced F-22 O-5s/6s.

What is the rationale in the MAF for doing this broadening thing?  I've heard so many bad stories about it I'm surprised the MAF keeps doing it.

AMC's command track program is crossflow, which is switching from airlift to tanker, or tanker to airlift.  Your CGO of the year types are typically the ones selected for that, and winning that type of award has little to do with tactical credibility in the MAF,  On the flip side, the tanker patches have the credibility, but the MAF has never valued them as command material.  Because of a fairly heinous deployment legacy, the tanker WIC spent a decade having more class slots than applicants. 

As a generalization, tanker patches don't have records that compete with the crossflow guys.  You can spend an entire 10 year commitment never meeting a patch wearing commander.  But more than likely, your commander, and his commander, will be airlift guys.  And obviously, the path to command is flying a different MAF airframe.  So early on, you realize the critical path toward senior leadership is min running toward IP, becoming an exec, and off to another airplane.  Follow that with school and staff, and then find yourself in command of a squadron where the senior Captains have way more experience than the guys leading them.