Leadership at the 'Deid

[Herk Mafia]

We had a guy at Salem (a 1LT) that was gettin sh*t on by our squadron chief about wearing his glasses around his neck without a REAL glasses strap. He had a piece of string instead. Together they both approached the DO about the problem and the DO backed up the LT. The chief gets pissed and stomps off. Said LT goes out in the hall and tells the chief to "get back here, Im not through with you yet" and proceeds to let the chief know he doesnt care how many stripes he has, he outranks him and he is going to stand there and listen to what he has to say.

This is the only time I have ever heard of an LT pulling rank on a chief and not get his peepee shwacked for it.

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by Chuck Farleston:

So why is it that O's have to do what the Shirts say? If you can get your CC to back you up and agree that the requirements are retarded, can't you tell your shirt to sod off?

Chuck,

In the case I outlined above, the CC put the shirt in charge of figuring out all the housing, out-processing, in-processing, etc. So when the Shirt put up a schedule of events it had the authority of the Sq/CC behind it. That is until the non-flyer dumbass tried to do some stupid BS like have everyone turn in their sh!t the night before leaving.

The problem is that most of the CC's don't want to be bothered with the BS over there. Therefore, they let their shirts, who are self-appointed uniform Nazi's, go around and do all this crap. They always have the pen and paper handy to take your names and report you to whoever. Apparently, most of these guys don't have enough work to do while deployed. I say send 85% of them home and let the ones left do all the paperwork for all the squadrons.

[Herk Driver]

I had a chief tell me I needed to shave after my first flight, while I was still in ops...still wearing my weapon...while I was taking a piss!

"Noted". In my experience, that single word gets across your meaning succinctly and has the underlying meaning that you are looking for. (STFU) It will normally enrage the person you are talking to, but since they can't tell if you are being a smart@ss or just trying to say that you understand, most will STFU and color.

Can someone tell me what the real justification was for making PT Gear mandatory at the Deed? Thank God I've avoided that place over the last year, but I'll be back soon.

The policy letter that started this all was signed by CENTAF/CC long ago. LtGen Buchanan had a policy out that people could only wear PT gear, no more civilian clothes. He wanted everyone to wear the new USAF PT gear, but it wasn't out yet. So there were many problems over what constituted PT gear. Could the shorts have pockets or not? Could the T-shirts have logos or not?

IIRC, the story, at the time. was that the SECAF had walked through Camp Andy or CC at the time and saw lots of scantily clad females walking around. He made a comment about the lack of standards with off-duty clothing. That's all it took.

There was also the problem of USAF people being at forward locations with the Army and the Army trying to get USAF folks to follow Army standards with regards to this same issue.

There's also the story of some female that brought 2 or 3 A-3 bags full of nothing but shoes to the desert. You know, my 2 bags, plus my 3 bags of shoes (authorized excess baggage). Who knows?

I don't know which of these is the real reason, but needless to say, there was a policy letter out there that mandated PT gear or uniform for wear. Now that the USAF has its own PT gear it sure makes things a lot easier than having some jack@ss try to turn you away from the chow hall over your shorts having belt loops or pockets or some other nonsense.

Although, I'm sure that the unifrom Nazi's will continue to find something to b!tch about. Oh, my bad, saluting. They have to justify the BSM that they all hope to be put in for.

[ 14. October 2006, 03:55: Message edited by: Herk Driver ]

[Guest PilotKD]

Originally posted by Zepplin559:

Can someone tell me what the real justification was for making PT Gear mandatory at the Deed? Thank God I've avoided that place over the last year, but I'll be back soon.

But when I was there, I had a run-in with some random E-7 who yelled at me about my sunglasses sitting on my head as I walked into the chow hall. I asked him if he had anything better to do and then went and got food. As I was walking away I heard him say, "I want his name and squadron!" So, I turned back to him and said "I just signed in, you can go figure it out." I went and enjoyed my breakfast and never heard anything after that.

Be careful though. We had an O mouth off to the wrong chief and he took it up to the wing king. Needless to say, it highlighted our squadron and our sq/cc was not happy.

Remember, we're talking about people who are probably on their first AEF here or haven't been here for 18-24 months. They don't "live" here like we do, so they really think they are helping and bringing something to the war. WTF do they care? They'll most likely never see this place again.

[ASUPilot]

I still run in my civilian PT gear around Coalition Compound in the evenings because the AF PT gear is attrocious to run/exercise in. Here's what the Deid has taught me about the AF: as a service, much like the country as a whole, we are severely obese. What are one of these senior NCO's going to do...run me down? I'd relish the opportunity to have one run with me. No disrespect to those senior NCO's who do uphold the physical fitness standards...I just haven't seen that 1 in 1000 yet!

[Guest Jorgo]

Please, the tidy scantily clad females were the only entertainment I had at the Deid - plus a reason to go to the gym on a daily basis !!

[Guest Rainman A-10]

The boss has control of the shirts. Period.

The shirts are executing orders. They are like cops...they are often outranked but feel the juice of the boss and can be jerks.

It doesn't take much if it happens in front of the SECAF or CFACC for sweeping changes to occur. You can thank the the ARMY who has had this stupid "official PT gear" policy where they have BOS, young people who decided not to dress conservatively while deployed and they got shacked by the SecAF AND Martha McSally who sued the SECDEF for not being able to wear PT gear at AJ.

BL, the Commander has the hammer over the shirts. If he decides to let them run wild it is on him. Be advised, he meets with the SNCO leadership often. To say he has no control over them is bullshit. Your best avenue is to be polite and respectful when confronted.

I like the "Noted, thank you" and then press on. If you are going to press on be sure you can answer the mail if word gets back to your boss. Some things are BS and worth standing up for. Others are not. Remember you may be dragging your squadron CC into the fight with you (when he gets schwacked at some mundane commanders meeting) so choose wisely.

[Guest stusakss]

Ahhh the minutia that drives us. I take it to the only sarcastic and logical (to me) conclusion I can.

Back a few months ago in a long sounding country, the policy was that you did not have to wear your reflective belt until sundown. So, I would hack my watch to command post, call WX to find out the exact sundown time and pocket the reflective belt until then. Nothing pleased my boy-like passive aggressive side than someone calling me out on in about 5 min or so before the "offical" time. I loved taking thier gay rules and taking them even further.

I figure, if you are gonna give me specific parameters, you darn well better know them befre you open your mouth. I even got to do the old "let's flip for it" while covering my rank to an E-9 that was being stupid. Hey, I was right and he was being a jackass. Oh well. Sometimes to pass the time, I find it fun to just pick at the people I find being foolish.

[Murph]

God forbid you try to change the channel of the TV in PERSCO. If the overweight PERSCO shoe clerk asks you for the remote, give consideration to throwing her a pastry or tasty beverage instead. It may buy you an extra 10 minutes of Sportscenter.

[Toro]

Somebody sent this to me, thought it was pretty funny.

1775, If not for the reflective belt, General George Washington would have lost boats in the “fog of war”, thus rendering his crossing of the Delaware river pointless.

The Confederacy might very well have won the American Civil War had General T.J. “Stonewall” Jackson had been wearing his reflective belt on that fateful evening in May of 1863. Unfortunately, he was shot by his own men.

As testimony to the caliber of leaders produced at the United States Military Academy, the brilliant tactician General George A. Custer ordered his men to don their reflective belts at Little Big Horn. This ensured the ability to distinguish the living from the dead.

From 1914 until mid-1918 our European Allies were locked in a stalemate of trench warfare. Enter the doughboys of the Allied Expeditionary Force who brought with them the power of the reflective belt. It has been said that the reflective belt was a key factor in the German decision to surrender.

Normandy, June 6th 1944; Poor navigation, overrun drop zones and Nazi Flak caused the elite U.S. Paratroopers to be scattered over the French countryside in total confusion. If not for the reflective belt, they would have never been able to link up and form LGOPs (little groups of Paratroopers) thus enabling them to complete their Airborne mission.

From Normandy to Tora Bora; for nearly 60 years, Rangers have been leading the way. Omaha Beach was no different as the mighty reflector belts helped identify the elite Rangers from their 29th ID counterparts

[Toro]

…and the last six…

“and any sonofab!tch in the 3rd Army who doesn’t ware his reflective belt is just as bad as a Nazi and will therefore be shot as a coward.”

-General George S. Patton

Iwo Jima, February 1945. Joe Rosenthal would not have captured this great moment on film had it not been for the distinct glare of the reflective belts.

Disclaimer: Parody only. It is acknowledged that the United States Marine Corps does not wear reflective belts in combat zones.

LZ X-Ray, 1967 Vietnam; The First Cavalry Division and it’s flair for all things yellow, breaks out the reflective belts to help pilots decide where to drop napalm.

North Vietnam 1971; Task Force Ivory Coast. The Special Warfare Legend, COL Arthur D. “Bull” Simons declared the Son Tay Prison raid a complete and total success because of the reflective belts which enabled our Special Forces soldiers to discern between friendly forces and military advisors from the People’s Republic of China

C’mon, everyone is doing it…

DISCLAIMER: Parody only, The Halliburton Corporation does not manufacture reflector belts… Yet

[Techsan]

Nice post Toro. The swabbies are making fun of us as well...found this via google:

[Scooter14]

Originally posted by Hydro130:

Good stuff Toro...

Do "they" not hassle folks for wearing the disco belt bandolier-style anymore? Years ago at the Dirty Deid, doing that was nearly as much of an unforgiveable infraction as not wearing one at all...

Cheers, Hydro

Hydro,

You better believe that the reflective belt must be properly worn around the waist.

The last issue of the Desert Whatever-the-****-they-call-it base paper that went out before I came back had uniform "do's and don'ts" as the "centerfold" if you will.

There under the "don'ts" column had one of our AMC warriors wearing sandstorm goggles on his head (bad) and a reflective belt across his chest (also bad).

[Mark1]

I'll bet they get a ton of cars tearing through what looks like a lush green grass field there, and down the sidewalk. There is nothing better than making the issued "camoflauged" uniform visible from space. Unbelievable.

Does anybody have any documented cases of individuals being run over on the flight line because of low visibility? I would assume it has actually happened with all the "watch out for the fire trucks if we have to egress" talk, but I want to see it for my own eyes (even though it still doesn't justify this BS).

[LockheedFix]

Originally posted by Mark1:

Does anybody have any documented cases of individuals being run over on the flight line because of low visibility?

I have considered trying to go to Safety School just to ask that same question. There has to be some way to look up that data with the access you have as a safety officer. I would be willing to bet that since this whole disco belt ridiculousness started, that there has not been a .01% decrease in the mishap rate of retards being hit by vehicles.

What kills me is how the reflective belt has become synonymous with "combat." During Yokota exercises, reflective belts become mandatory 24/7. It's as though some dipshit shoe clerk said "All right guys, we gotta buckle down. THIS IS WAR! GET YOUR REFLECTIVE BELTS ON!"

And whatever happened to looking professional in uniform? Wearing a neon yellow belt with your uniform makes us look like shit, yet somehow it's perfectly acceptable to wear one in the middle of the day.

[Guest holmie]

Pretty funny but also very sad. The worst part is wearing the gay PT gear 24/7 and having to salute other dildos in uniform to boot. At least the Marines in Djibouti have the right idea. No belts, no hats (ie no salutes) and 3 tall boys per evening.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by holmie:

At least the Marines in Djibouti have the right idea. No belts, no hats (ie no salutes) and 3 tall boys per evening.

For now...

The Deid used to be that way. Now the only thing you've got to cling to are your three dixie cups of budweiser.

HD

[Guest dayswhore@ang.com]

A couple of weeks ago, a buddy of mine, an intel guy, got jacked up in the pax terminal for PDA. His wife was on the way thru from Balad back to the land of the big bx. Some overzealos first john from TMO got all offended. "Captain, you know PDA is a direct violation of GO 1." Uh thanks sparky, I appreciate the update, goes back to talk to wifee and making sure she's ok. She's a OR nurse, Balad is a busy place for DOC's and Nurses. They call her flight, one big hug and kiss, she leaves, shoe is beside himself. Asks for duty section and CC. My friend works in the JOC, which is about a 50/50 mix of shoe vs. BTDT. Thanks god rich works for the latter, CC said not to worry and basically wrote NOTED on the MFR from LRS/CC.

Haven't heard if an all users has gone out yet banning hugging in the PAX.

The good news, for now, the insanity hasn't spread to those actually fighting the war. At least not in hospital area according to the spouse, people who have a mission rarely take the time for shoelessness. She said she saw zero balance on reflector belts the entire time and they wore civvies off duty. Medical folks have always done thier own thing and seem to be largely immune to the stupidity the rest of the af has to contend with.

[Cooter]

We've had a couple intstances of married folks being deployed together or passing each other as the squadrons switched. If they think fighting the war on terror is about making husbands and wives stop hugging I think they've got the wrong idea.

Let's step out back real quick... ...next, oh hello Mr. PT Tuck police... ...next, and so on.

Cooter

[Guest cbire880]

If you ask the strict Muslim types, then yes, hugging in public (between a man and woman) is highly offensive. I think that means we might be losing the war on our way of life though.....

[Guest stusakss]

Who gives a flying turd if hugging is offensive to Muslims? Car bombs, setting people on fire as they leave thier place of worship...that is offensive to me....once they start making me happy by being not savages, then I will start not getting some if I can right there in public. (OK, my wife will never be there to get me some PDA, but if she was, whoa baby)

[Guest cbire880]

Originally posted by C130DrivingMustang:

Who gives a flying turd if hugging is offensive to Muslims? Car bombs, setting people on fire as they leave thier place of worship...that is offensive to me....once they start making me happy by being not savages, then I will start not getting some if I can right there in public. (OK, my wife will never be there to get me some PDA, but if she was, whoa baby)

My point exactly. We play their game by not drinking, no PDA, etc. They capture our civillians and chop off their heads on video, but god forbid if we publish a cartoon of their prophet. Lets go demonstrate against calling our religion violent by rioting and burning down buildings.

[Champ Kind]

Originally posted by C130DrivingMustang:

Who gives a flying turd if hugging is offensive to Muslims?

Disclaimer: Just playing devil's advocate.

Maybe they give a flying turd, since it's in their country....

I don't want this to derail the thread, but I think we're looking at two different issues here. Shoe-clerk trying to be NCO of the Quarter and return from the war-zone a hero in his flawless execution of all rules and regulations VS someone who understands why the "no PDA" rule is in effect (culturally) and wants to avoid some kind of incident if some Muslim-types were around to observe what was going on. That's about the only way I could put this into context, but I'd bet money it went down along the lines of situation # 1 (shoeclerk being a rule-nazi).

But, as I said earlier, and maybe I'm being naive, but if those are the rules of their society, maybe we should follow them too, so long as we are in their country. Just a thought, probably not even worth $.02 as I have not yet had the opportunity to deploy.

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by PhlashNU04:

If there was a Muslim in the Pax terminal to offend then that might make sense. Otherwise, the guy is just a shoe clerk.

FWIW, the no PDA thing is a local rule. We've been down that road before.

[Guest stusakss]

I know my career with the State Department is done before it begins, but I don't care if there are 20 Muslims standing around the PAX terminal...if I was off base, by all means, I will follow all local customs and not do anything that I would think would upset or offend, but within my perimiter fence...that is my territory, if they are upset...I don't care.

I had it out with a person in FMO just the other day, with my ranty having something to do with "If the employee can only speak Japanese, then they should work for a Japanese employer" kind of thing.

I just have two very different set of expectations inside the fence and outside it. Out there, it is my responsibility to fit in with the local culture, on base, it is theirs.

Oh well.