HookEmAll Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 What I was saying, is that the host nation gets a vote if you are in their country. As does leadership if you are in their Air Force. You claim that you have been doing this for some years now. Your post does not reflect that you have been. So if your Airman is doing something that offends the host nation or leadership (I'll leave the caustic religious inference out) what are you going to do about it? You're the veteran, you've been doing this for years. You want your three beers and to be left alone? That is not leadership. It appears that you have no idea what is going on in your AO aside from your tactical ops. We need more from leaders. Scooter has been doing this a long time. Get a life.
Cap-10 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 SOF, I used to deploy to the Deid back when we lived in Camp Andy (before Coalition City, etc) and we wore civies, back then...I was also there when they first started cutting down on open toe shoes, Tiva's, etc that then lead to the PT gear all the time policy...it had NOTHING to do with offending the host nation...the Qatari's never set foot in the Camp/City and whatever work was down was by TCN's, and the Qatar's didn't give two sh!ts about their feelings. It had everything to do with a base commander that was makeing a "leadership" decision that didn't take any effort on his part....the guys on the ground at FOB's didn't get to wear civvies, therefore we didn't get to either....at least that is what was being spread around by the base Senior NCO's. Cheers, Cap-10
Scooter14 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 What I was saying, is that the host nation gets a vote if you are in their country. As does leadership if you are in their Air Force. You claim that you have been doing this for some years now. Your post does not reflect that you have been. So if your Airman is doing something that offends the host nation or leadership (I'll leave the caustic religious inference out) what are you going to do about it? You're the veteran, you've been doing this for years. You want your three beers and to be left alone? That is not leadership. It appears that you have no idea what is going on in your AO aside from your tactical ops. We need more from leaders. You are rambling incoherently. I never said the host nation didn't get a vote. I never said leadership didn't get a vote. What I said was, as soon as someone does something inappropriate the policy will go away. As for your assessment of my leadership skills, you made a distinction there. You said "my" airman. My crew would be briefed on how to avoid being the reason for a base wide uniform change. My crew would operate in a safe and intelligent manner, hack the mission and make the most of being away from home. So, If I am sitting at the Fox bar with the swing shift ops staff and Services Squadron Sparky shows up with an offensive tee shirt or Mandy shows up in the daisies...I guess I'll just jump up and be a leader. "Remove those shorts Airman! That's an order!" Problem solved! Reality called, they would like you to stop by and visit sometime. 3
Guest Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 So, If I am sitting at the Fox bar with the swing shift ops staff and Services Squadron Sparky shows up with an offensive tee shirt or Mandy shows up in the daisies...I guess I'll just jump up and be a leader. "Remove those shorts Airman! That's an order!" Problem solved! 'Nuff said! (I'm assuming you are only talking to Mandy, not Sparky about removing shorts...) BTW, how 'bout the Gopher hockey team? I've been to a couple games...they're good. Really good. Want to place any bets?
Scooter14 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 'Nuff said! (I'm assuming you are only talking to Mandy, not Sparky about removing shorts...) BTW, how 'bout the Gopher hockey team? I've been to a couple games...they're good. Really good. Want to place any bets? Sparky can keep his jorts and his sweet Ed Harvey shirt on. I think Jerry York's BC squad will take the Gophers in the Frozen Four.
Gravedigger Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Hockey talk in a thread about a base in the desert, sweet! I think Colorado College looks pretty good this year...
Scooter14 Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Rainman knows the only way to stop the madness is to throw hockey at me. Works every time. On topic, it will be nice to be on civvies occasionally. I really do hope it lasts, but the cynical realist will still pack plenty of PT gear for my pending trip. Hopefully AFN will televise a little NCAA hockey to fill the void as well, but again the cynical side of me reckons it'll just be more NBA and NASCAR.
sweet I'm SOF Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 You are rambling incoherently. I never said the host nation didn't get a vote. I never said leadership didn't get a vote. What I said was, as soon as someone does something inappropriate the policy will go away. As for your assessment of my leadership skills, you made a distinction there. You said "my" airman. My crew would be briefed on how to avoid being the reason for a base wide uniform change. My crew would operate in a safe and intelligent manner, hack the mission and make the most of being away from home. So, If I am sitting at the Fox bar with the swing shift ops staff and Services Squadron Sparky shows up with an offensive tee shirt or Mandy shows up in the daisies...I guess I'll just jump up and be a leader. "Remove those shorts Airman! That's an order!" Problem solved! Reality called, they would like you to stop by and visit sometime. Your post seems incoherent to me as well. You typed that you want to drink your three beers and be left alone. If you are drinking your three beers and want to be left alone, you are probably not worried about what your Airmen are doing. What would your "briefing" to your Airmen consist of exactly? What you are missing, is that officers who are detached because they are god's gift and rated and such, and therefore are entitled to sit back and be left alone, is that your Airmen need your top cover. From my perspective, as I typed before, you are the problem. You are concerned with numero uno. I'll get more top cover and unass your Airmen from the queep more effective than you every time. I understand the reason for the queep, therefore, I know when to adjust the rheostat on taking liberties with dress and appearence and so on and so forth. I've seen your act, not impressed. And when you qualify this with "i've been doing this for a long time," you may or may not believe this - I've seen a lot of people in this service do something wrong for a long time. 1
sweet I'm SOF Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I could give a flying ###### if Yummypants shows up in daisy dukes or you show up in assless chaps. Give me my three drinks and leave me the ###### alone. To pick on you some more, what exactly would your briefing consist of? You say that you do not care what Yummypants wears. If that is the case, how are you going to brief her/him on how to stay within the bounds of reason? And then give you your three drinks and leave you alone? How long have you been doing this again? This is a problem.
Bergman Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) So, If I am sitting at the Fox bar with the swing shift ops staff and Services Squadron Sparky shows up with an offensive tee shirt or Mandy shows up in the daisies...I guess I'll just jump up and be a leader. "Remove those shorts Airman! That's an order!" Problem solved! First off, a foul on you for hanging out in the Fox Bar in the first place. Everyone knows that the Kasbah has better drinks, music that is somewhat quieter than a B-1 in max burner, and usually not as crowded. Second, I challenge you to come up with a better swing shift patch than this one. Your buddy Tulsa Todd, the resident Mormon, designated driver after the Kas kicked us out, and all-around great guy, had them made for us. Your post seems incoherent to me as well. You typed that you want to drink your three beers and be left alone. If you are drinking your three beers and want to be left alone, you are probably not worried about what your Airmen are doing. What would your "briefing" to your Airmen consist of exactly? What you are missing, is that officers who are detached because they are god's gift and rated and such, and therefore are entitled to sit back and be left alone, is that your Airmen need your top cover. From my perspective, as I typed before, you are the problem. You are concerned with numero uno. I'll get more top cover and unass your Airmen from the queep more effective than you every time. I understand the reason for the queep, therefore, I know when to adjust the rheostat on taking liberties with dress and appearence and so on and so forth. I've seen your act, not impressed. And when you qualify this with "i've been doing this for a long time," you may or may not believe this - I've seen a lot of people in this service do something wrong for a long time. You, sir, need to calm the fuck down. I have known Scooter since his very first day in the Air Force, been stationed with him for 5 years, been crewed with him more times than I can count, and been friends with him and his family for going on two decades....so I feel well qualified to say that you are just a bit off the mark on your assessment of him. Arguing that because someone wants to drink their beers and be left alone - after a 12+ hour day/8+ hour flight no less - somehow makes them a poor leader or officer is idiotic. There is such a thing as "time off" even at Al Udeid. You will probably lose your mind when I say this, but sometimes it just isn't my problem, or it isn't the time for me to be worrying about every junior enlisted troop at the Bra or Kas. That is the exact mentality that leads to every SSgt on the base walking laps just trying to find someone with a uniform out of regs, just so they can leap into action and correct them. Give it a rest! There is a time and place for everything...and not everyone has to be part of the solution all the time! Airmen need your top cover. They wouldn't need it if they weren't acting like jackasses! Wearing bootie shorts and a bra in the CC doesn't pass the common sense check. Foul on them. You are concerned with numero uno. I'll get more top cover and unass your Airmen from the queep more effective than you every time. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, while that may be true, I suspect Scooter probably did better in 5th grade English class than you. Edited October 21, 2012 by Bergman
sweet I'm SOF Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 SOF, I used to deploy to the Deid back when we lived in Camp Andy (before Coalition City, etc) and we wore civies, back then...I was also there when they first started cutting down on open toe shoes, Tiva's, etc that then lead to the PT gear all the time policy...it had NOTHING to do with offending the host nation...the Qatari's never set foot in the Camp/City and whatever work was down was by TCN's, and the Qatar's didn't give two sh!ts about their feelings. It had everything to do with a base commander that was makeing a "leadership" decision that didn't take any effort on his part....the guys on the ground at FOB's didn't get to wear civvies, therefore we didn't get to either....at least that is what was being spread around by the base Senior NCO's. Cheers, Cap-10 Cap-10, I was not there when that base commander made that decision. But do you really think that your explanation of why the commander made that decision is correct? A base commander has an awful lot of things on his or her plate. Making decisions out of spite is usually not a factor. That's my opinion, I cannot prove that. I'll cede to you that the Qatars are far more liberal than anyone else - on the beaches it is anything goes...that is likely because the Brits have been operating out of there for quite some time. Do we want to wear Tivas at Qatar? Of course we do. Does it break the mission if we are in PTs? No. It is asspain, but there was a reason...maybe it has nothing to do with Qatar. Maybe I'm gullible and press the "I believe" button too much, but sometimes those decision makers have their reasons. I have to be honest with you...one person literally showing their ass in that AOR is a huge deal. It goes against a lot of principles. If Tivas digressed into short shorts, digressed into an ass cheek hanging out, digressed into the Qatari gov't issuing a complaint to the embassy....now you can see where that base commander is coming from by putting folks into PTs.
Slander Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Why can't the base commander say "don't wear revealing clothing" instead of "BAHHH THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE IN PT UNIFORM" if the embassy complaint in your example really happened? edit: spelling is hard Edited October 17, 2012 by FSUBadger
10percenttruth Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, while that may be true, I suspect Scooter probably did better in 5th grade English class then you. I'll go out on a limb and say he understands the queep more than the rest of us because he is the cause (or at least the perpetuator) of that queep. I'll go out on a limb an say that this attitude is part of the problem. Also, since when do E-9s get to sit SOF?
sweet I'm SOF Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Why can't the base commander say "don't wear revealing clothing" instead of "BAHHH THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE IN PT UNIFORM" if the embassy complaint in your example really happened? edit: spelling is hard The base commander did say that, every time. And it didn't work. SrA Yummybritches wore revealing clothing because her leadership wanted three beers per day and to be left alone and did not care what she wore, and did not understand the waterfall effect of his piss poor leadership. And so we find ourselves in the sky is falling scenario that you describe. And we blame the shoes and the base commanders and the host nation. It could have been avoided.
Danny Noonin Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 If Tivas digressed into short shorts, digressed into an ass cheek hanging out, digressed into the Qatari gov't issuing a complaint to the embassy....now you can see where that base commander is coming from by putting folks into PTs. For someone doing a lot of preaching about leadership, this is piss poor leadership logic. You don't have to draw an imaginary line 10 feet back so that folks don't cross the actual line. 2
spaceman Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 You don't have to draw an imaginary line 10 feet back so that folks don't cross the actual line. Brilliant.
Scooter14 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The base commander did say that, every time. And it didn't work. SrA Yummybritches wore revealing clothing because her leadership wanted three beers per day and to be left alone and did not care what she wore, and did not understand the waterfall effect of his piss poor leadership. And so we find ourselves in the sky is falling scenario that you describe. And we blame the shoes and the base commanders and the host nation. It could have been avoided. Yes. Blame the two tanker crew aircraft commanders who are at the end of their third 16+ hour day and are 12hrs and 45 min from their LFA. Their two crews are 100% in compliance with the applicable base policies. They have both safely executed 20 sorties each and still have over a month to go in their second deployment of the year so far. Somehow they are the linchpin of leadership this war needs to ensure the airman they have never fucking met is wearing the proper attire? Choke yourself troll. 1
HossHarris Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 The base commander did say that, every time. And it didn't work. SrA Yummybritches wore revealing clothing because her leadership wanted three beers per day and to be left alone and did not care what she wore, and did not understand the waterfall effect of his piss poor leadership. And so we find ourselves in the sky is falling scenario that you describe. And we blame the shoes and the base commanders and the host nation. It could have been avoided. You, sir, may be retarded. Recommend getting yourself tested. (And I use the term sir very loosely)
tac airlifter Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Yes. Blame the two tanker crew aircraft commanders who are at the end of their third 16+ hour day and are 12hrs and 45 min from their LFA. Their two crews are 100% in compliance with the applicable base policies. They have both safely executed 20 sorties each and still have over a month to go in their second deployment of the year so far. Somehow they are the linchpin of leadership this war needs to ensure the airman they have never fucking met is wearing the proper attire? Choke yourself troll. He's not a troll. His opinion is exactly that of many senior leaders I've met. I'm actually glad he's posting so people can see the kind of mentally retarded logic prevalent in the senior ranks. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this guy was an 05 or 06 stuffed away somewhere in HQ. it's important to understand where he is coming from, not because I care what they tell me to wear or any of these queep issues he's addressing, but because this same logic is used against operators on actual missions. When I see guys frustrated that senior leaders are exerting micro control over tactical weaponeering solutions and preventing best results due entirely to their own personal incompetence and ignoranceI say "decide now if you can stomach this bullshit for more than your commitment, because they don't even trust you to dress yourself in your own free time." Case in point- this asshole. Personally, i still think the service is worth putting up with these types. I love my job and think its worthy of my best effort. Plus I get to be around, for the most part, some really great people. But I frequently see good guys frustrated by leaders who are just as blatantly idiotic as this one. 3
brickhistory Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 SrA Yummybritches wore revealing clothing because her leadership wanted three beers per day and to be left alone and did not care what she wore, and did not understand the waterfall effect of his piss poor leadership. Beer and American tail...I think that's worth fighting for (and admiring). I'm betting that "your Airmen" don't think as highly of you as you think they do. It comes across as HUGELY condescending. 99.69% are big boys and girls and if treated so, act so. For that percentage of airmen who fcuk it up, intentionally or not, the chain of command, with the first NCO in the chain is supposed to handle this. And it only gets bumped up until the lowest link in that chain fixes it. 6
zrooster99 Posted October 18, 2012 Posted October 18, 2012 Beer and American tail...I think that's worth fighting for (and admiring). I'm betting that "your Airmen" don't think as highly of you as you think they do. It comes across as HUGELY condescending. 99.69% are big boys and girls and if treated so, act so. For that percentage of airmen who fcuk it up, intentionally or not, the chain of command, with the first NCO in the chain is supposed to handle this. And it only gets bumped up until the lowest link in that chain fixes it. S H A C K
Azimuth Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 The base commander did say that, every time. And it didn't work. SrA Yummybritches wore revealing clothing because her leadership wanted three beers per day and to be left alone and did not care what she wore, and did not understand the waterfall effect of his piss poor leadership. And so we find ourselves in the sky is falling scenario that you describe. And we blame the shoes and the base commanders and the host nation. It could have been avoided. Who was the base commander at the Deid in '04 when the policy changed? Because I was deployed there at the time and that wasn't the reason we were told why the PT gear was implemented.
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