Leadership at the 'Deid

[StoleIt]

So gouge is that the CC side stoves are INOP due to lack of funding for an overdue inspection.

Figures, since breakfast was the only decent meal there...

[SUX]

So gouge is that the CC side stoves are INOP due to lack of funding for an overdue inspection.

Figures, since breakfast was the only decent meal there...

The grills have been down since the end of December.

Edited January 30, 2015 by SUX

[Azimuth]

Back up today.

[ARIs 'R' Us]

I might be spending the next portion of my life at the Deid...I've heard a lot of the PT/belt buffoonery is in the past. Since I've gotten answers to all my real questions, here are a few vacation questions (I intend to enjoy this "deployment" as much as possible):

1. How easy is it to get a car/get off base? Is buying a beater car to share between a few "shop" members doable?

2. On a rare 2 days off, is it auth'd to spend the night at, say, the Hilton in Doha?

3. Are most 6-12 monthers in the BPC? All?

4. Is there really a Chipotle?

5. Can you drink off base?

And yes, I know this isn't a real deployment...hence these questions. I'm already thinking of all the great bathroom sayings I can carve on the walls, until they tear them down.

In retrospect, 1-2 might be OPSEC...PM and I'll send you a .mil.

[FUSEPLUG]

4. Is there really a Chipotle?

Actually two. The original is at the BPC and there's a second being built on the CC side at this time. I'll send pics next time I transit the Deid.

[Day Man]

Actually two. The original is at the BPC and there's a second being built on the CC side at this time. I'll send pics next time I transit the Deid.

[StoleIt]

Actually two. The original is at the BPC and there's a second being built on the CC side at this time. I'll send pics next time I transit the Deid.

[Tonka]

I might be spending the next portion of my life at the Deid...I've heard a lot of the PT/belt buffoonery is in the past. Since I've gotten answers to all my real questions, here are a few vacation questions (I intend to enjoy this "deployment" as much as possible):

1. How easy is it to get a car/get off base? Is buying a beater car to share between a few "shop" members doable?

2. On a rare 2 days off, is it auth'd to spend the night at, say, the Hilton in Doha?

3. Are most 6-12 monthers in the BPC? All?

4. Is there really a Chipotle?

5. Can you drink off base?

And yes, I know this isn't a real deployment...hence these questions. I'm already thinking of all the great bathroom sayings I can carve on the walls, until they tear them down.

In retrospect, 1-2 might be OPSEC...PM and I'll send you a .mil.

Been awhile, and I had a pretty accessible job, most of the guys with me had to drive off base almost every day... YMMV

1) meh, you can do it but the pain of it will limit you to wanting to do it only every other week or so. Buy a car? Probably not unless you are command sponsored... There will be a car available for you, or you'll make friends with someone that does.

2) I'm pretty sure, no. Unless you are there for 365 then you can during your leave.

3) depends... Sometimes there's a wait and sometimes the AC goes out for 2 months, how much do you want to sweat during the night to have your own bathroom? Still probably worth it.

5) no

There are some resorts you can buy a one day pass for that most folks like... Restaurants and shopping downtown, get a few suits made, watch the stadium being built with slaves that are trafficked into the country (maybe we need to loan them our CBTs).

[HercDude]

I was there last summer - never once wore a reflective belt, no one asked for the color of my socks, and my moustache was long enough that I could curl the ends around like Doc Holiday. Hopefully base leadership has kept that trend going.

[tac airlifter]

I was there last summer - never once wore a reflective belt, no one asked for the color of my socks, and my moustache was long enough that I could curl the ends around like Doc Holiday. Hopefully base leadership has kept that trend going.

Not a reply specifically addressed to you..... But this cultural paradigm shift at AUAB needs to be documented in AF history. For years our Air Force was infected with the wrong idea that overlooking a rule, no matter how small, meant you would also overlook bigger rules and could therefore not be trusted to execute the mission. Simultaneously, leaders assessed (based on feedback from senior Es correcting these infractions) they were cursed with an especially undisciplined group and consequently needed to create more and more complex rules to exert more and more control; these combined factors created the bizarre situation which originally birthed this thread.

People joining now can't even believe the level of stupid that existed in 2006, when guys flying combat missions to exhaustion would run off the plane with 10 minutes on an ERO and be told they were too sweaty to be allowed in the shitter, or they weren't allowed in the DFAC to get a bottle of cold water because they forgot their ID in Balad, or you'd walk 2 miles to chow only to be turned around because you forgot your disco belt. In the daytime.

And now those extremes have burned themselves out at almost all locations; but it's important to kill the original philosophy which led to AUABs insanity by highlighting that without those rules and psycho enforcement WE ARE JUST AS EFFECTIVE AT THE MISSION. We shouldn't forget how wrong the whole system was about one of the most important aspects of leading people: understanding their nature and how to manage them. Also important to note how long it took the system to start fixing itself from even the most egregious and obvious foolishness.

Those of us who experienced that time should take a moment to put a nail in the coffin of wrong philosophy every chance we get.

Edited August 9, 2015 by tac airlifter

[FishBowl]

Documenting the paradigm shift would be admitting they were wrong. I don't see it happening. It will likely be chalked up to unruly, undisciplined airmen having since separated and, therefore, the psycho enforcement is no longer required to execute the mission.

[Azimuth]

This guy was the one that start all the bullshit at the Deid back in 2004.

https://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/104898/major-general-jack-b-egginton.aspx

If you read his sweet assignment history, he went from AETC Wing King, to Exec for the CSAF, to being the Wing King of largest AEW in the AOR a year after OIF kicked off and OEF was still young. All he knew was reflective belts, CGOC meetings at the Green Bean, etc.

The argument that I've heard is that current Group/Wing CC's are the ones who were Sq/CC's back when Egg was Wing King and got tired of their policies that were bullshit and those now Group/Wing CC's have war fighting credibility, whereas a lot of leadership in the 2003-2006 did not.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Azimuth

[Homestar]

All he knew was reflective belts, CGOC meetings at the Green Bean, etc.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but ...

4. May 1982 - December 1982, student, F-16 Replacement Training Unit, MacDill AFB, Fla.

5. January 1983 - August 1985, F-16 instructor pilot and squadron scheduler, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany

6. August 1985 - December 1985, student, F-16 Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

7. January 1986 - December 1986, squadron and wing weapons officer, and F-16 instructor pilot, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn AB, West Germany

8. January 1987 - July 1989, fighter weapons instructor, assistant operations officer, nuclear weapons and avionics academic instructor, assistant Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, USAF Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

9. August 1989 - July 1991, advanced program manager, Tactical Fighter Weapons Center, Nellis AFB, Nev.

10. August 1991 - July 1992, student, Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell AFB, Ala.

[Herk Driver]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but ...

4. May 1982 - December 1982, student, F-16 Replacement Training Unit, MacDill AFB, Fla.

5. January 1983 - August 1985, F-16 instructor pilot and squadron scheduler, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany

6. August 1985 - December 1985, student, F-16 Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

7. January 1986 - December 1986, squadron and wing weapons officer, and F-16 instructor pilot, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn AB, West Germany

8. January 1987 - July 1989, fighter weapons instructor, assistant operations officer, nuclear weapons and avionics academic instructor, assistant Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, USAF Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

9. August 1989 - July 1991, advanced program manager, Tactical Fighter Weapons Center, Nellis AFB, Nev.

10. August 1991 - July 1992, student, Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell AFB, Ala.

You missed the FAIP assignment, or was that intentional?

[Azimuth]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but ...

4. May 1982 - December 1982, student, F-16 Replacement Training Unit, MacDill AFB, Fla.

5. January 1983 - August 1985, F-16 instructor pilot and squadron scheduler, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany

6. August 1985 - December 1985, student, F-16 Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

7. January 1986 - December 1986, squadron and wing weapons officer, and F-16 instructor pilot, 50th Fighter Wing, Hahn AB, West Germany

8. January 1987 - July 1989, fighter weapons instructor, assistant operations officer, nuclear weapons and avionics academic instructor, assistant Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, USAF Fighter Weapons School, Nellis AFB, Nev.

9. August 1989 - July 1991, advanced program manager, Tactical Fighter Weapons Center, Nellis AFB, Nev.

10. August 1991 - July 1992, student, Air Command and Staff College, Maxwell AFB, Ala.

The point you missed was he didn't have a lot, if at all CENTCOM deployment experience until he became the 379 AEW Wing King. This is the guy who allowed NCO's to be posted outside of the DFAC in the summer of 2004 to do proper shoe and clothing checks on people.

[jrizzell]

In the summer of 2004 we could still wear civilian clothes, the mandatory PT gear didn't start until I think 2006 timeframe. My 2005 tour was great, no Chiefings and ladies in Juicy sweat suits

[Homestar]

You missed the FAIP assignment, or was that intentional?

[Beaver]

W

I'm thinking it was around summer 04 - When the deed went to a strict apparel policy. Our crew left the states on our two week trip right before the word got out that PT gear or uniforms would be required there. So we show up on a Friday night and the stage tells us that starting Sunday the deed would have this new policy. We don't really think anything of it...Saturday afternoon we launch on a 24 hour mission. We get back Sunday afternoon and decide to go grab something to eat. Well now the PT Gear policy is in full force. No shit, the Loadmaster (MSgt with 18 years in) and I get stopped three times on the way to the chow (which is just across the street) because we had pockets on our shorts and PT gear doesn't have pockets, or so we were told.

We get up to the door, the door checker wouldn't let us in; not because of the pockets, but because the Load had belt loops on his khaki shorts!

From page 1 this very thread, circa 2005. Edited August 10, 2015 by Beaver

[HerkFE]

I left there in July 2005 and I THINK we weren't in PT gear but I have killed many brain cells since then. When I went back in '10 it was PT gear.

[matmacwc]

This guy was the one that start all the bullshit at the Deid back in 2004.

https://www.af.mil/AboutUs/Biographies/Display/tabid/225/Article/104898/major-general-jack-b-egginton.aspx

If you read his sweet assignment history, he went from AETC Wing King, to Exec for the CSAF, to being the Wing King of largest AEW in the AOR a year after OIF kicked off and OEF was still young. All he knew was reflective belts, CGOC meetings at the Green Bean, etc.

The argument that I've heard is that current Group/Wing CC's are the ones who were Sq/CC's back when Egg was Wing King and got tired of their policies that were bullshit and those now Group/Wing CC's have war fighting credibility, whereas a lot of leadership in the 2003-2006 did not.

Two years operational to WIC, UFB

[HU&W]

Two years operational to WIC, UFB

Must have been phenomenal at using dry erase markers.

[Azimuth]

In the summer of 2004 we could still wear civilian clothes, the mandatory PT gear didn't start until I think 2006 timeframe. My 2005 tour was great, no Chiefings and ladies in Juicy sweat suits

I was there from April to August 2004. Mid way through my tour the base implemented a "PT gear like" civilian clothes policy. I could no longer wear sandals in the DFAC. Most people just wore their flight suit/DCU brown or black t-shirts and basketball shorts. They even made us wear (or buy a shirt that had) a collar to actually fly home on the rotator. UFB

[disgruntledemployee]

I was there in 2003. All was fine and dandy. 3x pint sized beers a day with decent selection, the wagon wheel before and after the storm that tore it up, but we didn't care, and we wore whatever was comfortable. The mission got on.

Then Roche shows up. I overhear him ask, "so you guys don't wear a uniform 24/7?" Queue in knee-jerk reaction which institutes the PT-like clothing restrictions that seemed to change weekly as someone saw something that they didn't like. We hear anecdotal stories of ladies with suitcases full of shoes, supposedly for the wagonwheel fashion show, as why we need to change. It will save weight on rotators they say, but never mind the xx lbs of useless chem gear/army gear we haul every rote. "Leadership" was way too awesome making this change <--- sarcasm!

My next 2 times there in 2004 was the civilian PT like clothing. I don't recall when official PT gear went into style, but I think we had to have it for my 2005 rote.

And now we don't have to wear it. People can get 3x beers a day, but selection has seen better days. There is a Bra. And I think the mission is still getting on. Weird.

Out

[Herk Driver]

I was there in 2003. All was fine and dandy. 3x pint sized beers a day with decent selection, the wagon wheel before and after the storm that tore it up, but we didn't care, and we wore whatever was comfortable. The mission got on.

Then Roche shows up. I overhear him ask, "so you guys don't wear a uniform 24/7?" Queue in knee-jerk reaction which institutes the PT-like clothing restrictions that seemed to change weekly as someone saw something that they didn't like. We hear anecdotal stories of ladies with suitcases full of shoes, supposedly for the wagonwheel fashion show, as why we need to change. It will save weight on rotators they say, but never mind the xx lbs of useless chem gear/army gear we haul every rote. "Leadership" was way too awesome making this change <--- sarcasm!

Out

Sounds like what I remember from the back corner of Camp Andy (O and P row) in the fall of '03 Edited August 11, 2015 by Herk Driver

[TacAirCoug]

Sounds like what I remember from the back corner of Camp Andy (O and P row) in the fall of '03

Ditto. We were in Q row same time. The guys living in Q-3 weren't too excited about it, not sure why...