Leadership at the 'Deid

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Don't let anyone fool you, there's no better place on earth to be than in a fighter squadron, except the cockpit of a single seat fighter.

The USAF is extremely fun. You can choose to bring yourself down by focusing on the queep like reflective belts but I would suggest you enjoy the good stuff.

[Guest CrewDawg1]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Don't let anyone fool you, there's no better place on earth to be than in a fighter squadron, except the cockpit of a single seat fighter.

The USAF is extremely fun. You can choose to bring yourself down by focusing on the queep like reflective belts but I would suggest you enjoy the good stuff.

What he said!

I can't speak for active duty, but being in the Air Force (Guard) has been alot of fun for me. In my short time in the Air Force I have partied my a$$ off all over the place. Spain, Tucson, Alpena, Mass., Texas, Phoenix and soon to be Alaska. I wouldn’t let this thread get you down about the Air Force. This is just a place to vent about the bul$hit that goes on at the died.

I did spend a little time at "The Died," and yes there were reflective belt police everywhere, the rules were out of hand. Seems like everything we tried to do to raise morale would get shot down and actually killed morale. Our shift flight chief worked out a schedule so we (crew chiefs) could work 4 on 1 off instead of the normal 5 on 1 off. Wasn't much but it was nice to get a few more days off. That lasted for about 3 days until, someone up the chain found out and it came down that we had to go back to the normal schedule, because "not all sections could do the same!!!" Our F'n medical was working 2 on 1 off and only working 8 hour days!!!!!! Another classic, we are at the Ops town chow hall and my friend notices someone walking by with a flashlight that has been left on in this guys pocket. So my friends being the nice guy that he is said, “excuse me sir, I just wanted to let you know that your flashlight is still on.” What does he get in return, this Lt. Col. yelling at him in the middle of the chow hall about how he was not to correct a superior officer and so on and so forth. He was just trying to help the guy out. But my friends like F-it let it be. Ahh how I will never miss that place.

Other than that it was a pretty good base to be at. I mean at least you are not getting shot. I mean my friend who is in the army went there for R&R. I'm just saying there could be alot worse places to be.

[ 16. April 2006, 19:59: Message edited by: CrewDawg1 ]

[Clayton Bigsby]

The one thing I want to ask, about double standards...

So the chow hall in CC has plastic silverware, and paper plates. We don't want to be wasting water washing dishes and whatnot, water is precious and keeps us all alive so take 2-minute showers, blah blah blah.

Anyway, that's the explanation, which was all fine and dandy until one day we ate at the chow hall in Ops Town just before a flight out, which happens to be right next to the Base Command section, and the CAOC and its DVs are relatively nearby too...and they've got, no shit, metal silverware. Glass plates. For Chrissakes, the f*ckers even have a PASTRY CHEF on hand to make elaborate pastry displays. WTF?!?!?

NEXT gripe is the laundry situation - not everybody operating out of OTBH is necessarily STAYING there for 120 days. A 3-day turnaround for laundry is NOT okay if you might suddenly get diverted for a medevac in flight, never to see your laundry items again. Apparently C-17 ops somehow finagled a deal to have 1-day turnaround for us, but THAT got taken away by leadership because that's too good a deal, and we can't be having that. So thanks to that bullshit, I have to pack 2 weeks' worth of brown t-shirts, underwear, socks, and civvies into my already pregnant and bursting-at-the-seams suitcase (which my unit will no longer issue to us btw, because it has been deemed a "luxury item" from on high - so no replacements if I break mine being TDY 200+ days a year). Might get stuck there for awhile, since like Manas, the 'deid is the black hole from which there is no escape. And doing your laundry in the sink in a Cadillac isn't much of an option. Buy more essentials like that at the BX you say? Yeah, will do, their selection is great, you can get brown t-shirts in sizes M or XXL ONLY. But, you can buy a big-screen TV there. Now where TF can you put that?

But I can't even do my own goddammed laundry.

perfect.

[ 17. April 2006, 01:49: Message edited by: Chuck Farleston ]

[TacAirCoug]

Originally posted by Chuck Farleston:

The one thing I want to ask, about double standards...

So the chow hall in CC has plastic silverware, and paper plates. We don't want to be wasting water washing dishes and whatnot, water is precious and keeps us all alive so take 2-minute showers, blah blah blah.

Cracks me up every time I go to the CAOC chow hall to find these elaborate carved melon displays with all kinds of fresh fruit piled up around them...just for show. F'n pampered DV's.

At least they serve the crack laced cookies at all hours of the day in every chow hall!!

[Beaver]

The uniform queep isn't what the other services make fun of us about. The Army has waaay more reflective belt/pt uniform/haircut/uniform bullshit than the Air Force, and they are enforcing their silly policies in the actual war zone (no offense). And the worst part is in the Army Sgt Majors (E-9) are a dime a dozen and have no qualms about yelling at a Captain.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by Beaver:

And the worst part is in the Army Sgt Majors (E-9) are a dime a dozen and have no qualms about yelling at a Captain.

Can I get an AMEN!

Anyone who knows what Beaver is talking about (and I mean living with it, not just a casual drive by exposure to the Army lifestyle) has truly filled his USAF appreciation square.

A Command Sgt Major is an unbelievable sight to see. Running around like idiots, yelling at the top of their lungs. Yelling in the tent/TOC when given the floor during a Battle Update Brief. Yelling at the toilet paper as they are pushing one out. You haven't lived until you've had a CSM scream at the top of his lungs about the tiniest light leak or improper wear of the uniform. Complete lunacy.

It was always fun to put the hurt on a Command Sgt Major when he overstepped his bounds. You must use solid tactics but done properly it is as satifying as catching dismounts in the open and ripping six airbursts.

They don't like it.

[Guest SATCOM]

E-9's in the Army=Big Green's Version of the Rottweiler. They are the special breed of anal-retention that bring you back to reality. Seeing as you can make E-9 in the Army relatively quick, you don't always get maturity and experience.

Rainman, just recently I was at Bagram. My supply troop and I go to the chow hall to get some essentials. As we enter Camp Vance, a CSM starts yelling at the top of his small lungs at my Toyota truck. My supply TSgt had parked in an unmarked spot and this infuriated the now ballistic Sar'nt Major. "What is wrong with you, you know I don't allow parking there, get that vehicle off MY post", he bellowed.

I just sat in the passenger seat and listened as he went off on my E-6. I slowly opened the door and began to approach him, which he thought would result in an apology from me. Not wanting to embarrass him in front of my TSgt, I showed him my USAF E-9 ID and we walked away. He and I spoke for a good ten minutes on the virtues of marking the "No Parking" areas and that he probably had Bipolarism and OCD. I also was curious as to how Camp Vance came to be run by an E-9, who wasn't Special Forces.

I reviewed the circumstances of Vance's death (which were unfamiliar to him) and mocked his "Battlefield" promotion to Camp Commander. He told me that the Air Force NEEDS the Army more than the Army needs the Air Force. I had a lot of time on my hands (I really didn't want to go back to the TOC at Camp Cunningham), so I reviewed the history of the USAF and the Army, both pre and post 1947. His lack of awareness in this area was fully exploited by this humble Chief.

In the end, we agreed that he:

-Was not the Camp Vance Commander

-Had told his Army cronies not to park in this area, but failed to consider that other services are at Bagram

-Lacked sufficient historical knowledge and perspective to make dubious statements

Off I drove with my trusty supply troop, happy that I had a brief encounter with the Army's Rottweiler community and actually got one of them to admit their shortcomings!

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by SATCOM:

His lack of awareness in this area was fully exploited by this humble Chief.

Bravo!

The initial group of Army folks at Bagram were not a bad group. The Sgt Maj clown act was kept to a minimum and the vast majority of what they worried about was light discipline and other things that would legitimately keep people alive. The REMF population was very small (probably because we were forward, not rear), mostly limited to the 10th Mtn TOC. The rest of the folks on base were shooters. Most of the base was in survival mode and the Army had no doubt that they were surviving only because the USAF was there. There was never a question about who needed whom more and it wasn't much of an issue outside the 10th Mtn TOC because shooters appreciate shooters.

And then (about 6 months after we had a firm hold on the base), XVIII Corps/CC arrived with his full staff to set up CJTF Afghanistan. This was well after we had stopped burning shit with jet fuel. We were rarely taking rounds into the base and we were down to two people a week getting blown up by mines. Suddenly, there were Sgt Majors everywhere, yelling and screaming and inventing all kinds of rules. None of the CJTF Afghanistan folks ever stepped outside the wire and few of them went more than 100 meters outside their compound. However, they did sick their Sgt Majors on everyone. New uniform rules abounded. We were still washing our clothes in 5 gal buckets in Camp Cunningham. We had a kickass gym (for Aghanistan) thanks to my C-130 bros who would take lists of stuff my supply Capt would order at SEEB and then fly it FedEx style to us, bumping whatever frustrated Army cargo they needed to bump to get our stuff on.

The Sgt Maj thing got so bad I had to do something. I was lucky and got a Command Chief position added to the AEG manning doc. Two weeks later, in walked our Command CMSgt, a former PJ. We talked a bit, I conducted the necessary introductions and he was off. First stop, 3 hour toe to toe with the CJTF Afghanistan Command Sgt Major and my guy STOMPED HIS ASS. The best part was, he did it by being smart and humiliating his screaming Army counterpart. I guess they teach that in CMSgt school. They guy was a total Velvet Hammer and he kicked ass.

Things changed immediately, including my already high regard for USAF CMSgts. The word spread quickly that you don't want to mess with the USAF folks because their Cmd CMSgt will show up if you do.

[Guest Mudmover]

New to the forum guys. However, as a member of Her Majesties finest, and having had the pleasure of a couple of tours of duty at Al Udeid, I sympathise with you all. What I can recommend to you though, is get yourself some Brit uniform. Then you can ignore all your petty rules and regulations and effectively put two fingers up to the 'powers that be'. Nothing used to give me greater pleasure than seeing a 'goody two shoes' approach with the intention of reprimanding me/us, for them to then realise we were Brits and that we would ignore all requests to put ridiculous, poxy, pathetic, annoying reflective belts on. If you can't cross the road without looking, you shouldn't be in the military. Your higher commands really do make life difficult for you!!!

P.S. Cheap flying suits available!! (with badges!!!!)

[ 04. May 2006, 07:47: Message edited by: Mudmover ]

[Guest Hud Cripple]

My .02 is most of us who had a normal childhood, lost our virginity as a teenager, and has absolutely no problem with just being a crewdawg are not the pricks who man the reflective belt mafia.

These morons get off on finally having the satisfaction of jumping all over someone with out getting the living shit kicked out of them. These idiots are the same tools that keep the random policy generator running. I cannot remember one week at the Died without a new policy or rule being disseminated.

These are the same dipshits who cannot survive on the outside. They got the taste of the Government cheese and now they can break the addiction.

Anyone at the Died when the OG/CC broke his ankle playing dodgeball (dec 04). I am sure we all remember JOHN VENABLE. You do know he killed someone - dont you. He was the chief of the Knob-a-hoe F-nut tribe. Chief Knob-a-hoe and his F-stick tribe members made sure that 1. Everyone knew about John Venable's KILL, and 2. When sitting under the BRA your better have 360 degrees of visible reflective material.

[Scooter14]

I just got back from "mandatory PT hell" at the Died. 1 Oct it went into effect. I deployed with 2 tee shirts and 1 pair of shorts thinking I could buy the rest there...WRONG. Nothing but small and med shorts and XXXXL Tees. Who the **** wears an XXXXL tee shirt? That's right, folks, FOUR X's.

Luckily, the shirts dry in a day after you bring them in the shower with you.

At 0001 on 1 Oct, the First Shirt union systematically started kicking non-conformists out of the chow hall.

People went nuts correcting other people on the proper wear of the uniform. Thanks, make it suck more.

They have this rule there about saluting in the PT uniform...if you see someone of higher rank, you have to salute them. If you are both in PT uniforms, if you know they are a higher rank (like your SQ/CC or something), you have to salute. Well, this was a tough concept for this Guard Guy to grasp. About every 10th person or so would salute me if I was in my bag. I NEVER saluted anyone when I was in my PT uniform. I may as well have been wearing pajamas...I just don't consider it a uniform.

My favorite occurence came on my last day. I visited the MUFF Tues nite before I left. Wed morning I woke up with a dry mouth, bad headache and no soap. So, I had to slog over to the BX to buy a bar for the last 8 hours I was spending at the Died. So, off I go, in my PT gear with my boom.

I get my $0.69 bar of soap, and am making my way back to the condo. As I approach the end of the walkway by the Dunkin Donuts, I see a fat dude walking in a flight suit. As he rounds the corner, I see that he is the same rank as me. OK, I wasn't really too worried about saluting anyway, but after 4 days of being corrected by every SrA on base, I have just enough SA to actually register that he's the same rank as me.

Well, he gets closer and he's got a nice out of regs moustache, he's even fatter now, and he's got some Strike Eagle morale patch on. Whatever, I'm just happy to be leaving soon.

Well, he passes us, and we hear someone yell "Hey!"

So, I turn around to see who Maj Fatass is yelling at. Just so happens that it's me and my boom he's yelling at. He wants to know, and I quote "...if we've forgotten to salute commissioned officers today?"

My boom throws himn a half assed salute, and I give him my best YGBSM look, because at this point I still cannot believe that someone in the AOR, a crewdog nonetheless, is jacking me up and he's the same rank as me. Before I can ask him what his problem is, he says "That's what I thought" and heads toward the BX, presumably to get a Twinkie. As he departs, I see some words stitched into his hat on the back.

So, I get yelled at by a fat, out of regs, same rank as me flyer for not saluting him. Thanks, bro, for making it suck more.

The best part is, I'm home now, he's still there, and he's still fat.

[Techsan]

Scooter--

You so should of asked Chunk when it was mandatory for people of the same rank to salute each other.

Kind of like when I first came on active duty, and I passed a 1Lt in front of finance. I was nice and said, "Hey, how's it going?", with no salute since we were both LT's. He then told me that I should of rendered him a salute, since he had a silver bar instead of a gold one. I then snapped to attention, and popped a perfect salute...giving a sarcastic "Sorry about that SIR".

Hopefully, the AF force-shaped his @ss.

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by Scooter14:

At 0001 on 1 Oct, the First Shirt union systematically started kicking non-conformists out of the chow hall.

Well, that figures. Shirts are quickly becoming the biggest bullshit artists in the entire AF.

HD

[Cooter]

Scooter Welcome back bro, glad you were able to get into the Muff after I left. Can't say I wsan't happy to leave before 1 Oct! I know it was just starting before I left and I'm sure it's more redonculous than ever. Word on the street here is we may have a recall in PT gear... . And "2" to Rainman's post...what a fat tool. Reminds me of the guy in the AMD cell, I think he had 100mph tape holding his flight suit together. Funny how people will tell you to correct you on the baragain basement PT gear but won't tell some Hungry Hungry hippo to back his fat ass away from the table.

Cooter

[Guest petak316]

So when did saluting in PT's become ops norm in the air force?? My wife is in the army and they do that sh!t. personally i think its uber gay. no rank, no salute....who knows, soon we'll have to go buy PT rank and have it sewn on.

sure a "good morning, sir" is in order for people you know outrank you, but this is unbelieveable....

[Horns05]

Sounds like ROTC field training is setting up a new FTU: Al Udied I, II, & III

[Champ Kind]

Originally posted by LonghornNav:

who knows, soon we'll have to go buy PT rank and have it sewn on.

But then you'll have PT gear nametapes....and PT gear occupational badges....and PT gear squadron patches. Who knows, after a while some idiot will invent PT gear awards. Maybe they'll have little smiley-face stickers (like the one the people-greeter hands out to the kids at Wal-Mart) or gold stars for when you do something correctly.

....Yeah, can't wait.

:rolleyes:

[Herk Driver]

Originally posted by Vandal905:

Sounds like it is another way for people to recognize the outstanding contributions of shoe clerks. Is the whole saluting in PTs thing just downrange or AF wide? I have never seen it on base or around my ROTC det, where my little world resides, we just give verbal greetings.

To answer your question, it is just in the AOR. The AFI actually says that saluting is not required for PT gear. Somehow they've decided in the AOR that they need to keep the BS going.

Anyway, good to hear that BS machine churns on.

[Guest PilotKD]

Scooter, the thought of you in small shorts and an XXXL shirt is a little scary. They finally got more uniforms in, but they sold out in about 2 days. They do, however, have plenty of laundry detergent in stock. Just in case you want to wash your cloths in the Cadillac.

This whole PT gear things is seriously . Supposedly the CENTAF guidance is "old" and not fine tuned to the Deid yet. Our CC has talked with the group and wing leadership about how assanine it is to have to salute in PT gear and has gotten somewhat of an unofficial agreement, but it doesn't look like the rule is going to change anytime soon. What I don't agree about is that if I pass an O-6 wearing PT gear and don't recognize this O-6, I don't have to salute, but we are in an official AF uniform. So, it only works one way. If this is a no-$hit official uniform and we are required to salute, why not make it mandatory to wear a hat with rank on it so that everyone entitled to a salute gets one? Not that I'm promoting more a$$pain to the madness that's already here, but I'm just trying to use some common sense (something someone in a high place didn't use when coming up with this $hit). Personally, once I'm over in CC, "off work" and in my PT gear, I don't want to salute at all. It's BS. For those 3-4 hours of freedom I have before I have to get to bed for another Ground Hog Day, I don't want to be required to render a salute walking to a movie in PT gear.

Scooter, what makes me think that fatty is an even larger douche nozzle is that the area around the BX, Dunkin Donuts, Pizza Hut, etc... is a no-salute area to begin with (BTW, your PM box is full).

[ 13. October 2006, 04:19: Message edited by: PilotKD ]

[HerkDerka]

Originally posted by PilotKD:

If this is a no-$hit official uniform and we are required to salute, why not make it mandatory to wear a hat with rank on it so that everyone entitled to a salute gets one? Not that I'm promoting more a$$pain to the madness that's already here, but I'm just trying to use some common sense

Careful, the example you gave is exactly what the shoe clerks who come up with this shit think IS common sense. "Oh, let's add a hat! That makes sense". When the real sensible thing to do was to do away with saluting gn PT gear the first time. I'm not razzing you, I understand you're point. I'm just saying it was never thought through the first time and shoe clerks love addendums.

I've had it up to my ass with people in AOR directly disobeying regs and substituting their own rendition (for instance PT gear regs). The last time I checked, these regs said "Compiance with this regulation is mandatory." Who do these bastards think they are?

HD

[ 13. October 2006, 08:53: Message edited by: HerkDerka ]

[Cooter]

Too late there's already an authorized hat at the Deid. Won't be long before there's rank on it. Thank god I'm in upgrade that's all I can say.

Cooter

[Herk Driver]

Sounds like nothing changes.

The last time that I was at the Died there was a similar situation. The squadron had decided that all of us would move out of our tents in Camp Andy and into the transient tents so the new guys could move straight into their permanent tents. OK, so I can buy showing the new guys a little love.

So the first shirt actually has a schedule out for crew dawgs to turn in their linen and out-processing sh!t the night before they leave. That's right. The show time was like 5 am the next morning and he wants all crew members to turn in their sheets, pillows, blankets, etc by 1700 the night before so that we can turn in our out-processing paperwork as close to 1700 as possible. (notice he was giving us 12 hours for uninterrupted crew rest)

This was of course so he didn't have to get up too early the next morning and meet us before we left.

Well you can bet that went over like a fart in church. It didn't take long for reason to win out on that one.

It's too bad that your CC didn't take a stand on that one.

Oh, BTW, did I mention it was January and not very warm at night at this point. Anyone that was there may remember the big circus tent next to Jack's. Yep, that's right the one with the big fvcking hole right in the top. Great conditions to get some crew rest for the primary crew with no blanket, sheets, etc. Oh, right the shirt was still in his nice Alaska tent til the very last day.

[ 13. October 2006, 15:36: Message edited by: Herk Driver ]

[Clayton Bigsby]

So why is it that O's have to do what the Shirts say? If you can get your CC to back you up and agree that the requirements are retarded, can't you tell your shirt to sod off?

[Zepplin559]

Can someone tell me what the real justification was for making PT Gear mandatory at the Deed? Thank God I've avoided that place over the last year, but I'll be back soon.

But when I was there, I had a run-in with some random E-7 who yelled at me about my sunglasses sitting on my head as I walked into the chow hall. I asked him if he had anything better to do and then went and got food. As I was walking away I heard him say, "I want his name and squadron!" So, I turned back to him and said "I just signed in, you can go figure it out." I went and enjoyed my breakfast and never heard anything after that.

[FourFans]

The same reason there are 22 chiefs on this base who overpower the will of the Wing King. In his own words: "I got off the plane here with plans for no PT gear, flip flops, KBR food, and none of the stupidity like there is at the 'deid. But the chiefs here have killed every single idea."

Don't ask me how that sh!t works...but it is completely f'ed up. Chiefs who have never been incountry coming here for their "combat" when they're less than a year from retiring. I had a chief tell me I needed to shave after my first flight, while I was still in ops...still wearing my weapon...while I was taking a piss!

Anyone whose been a deployed commander type:

How would you advise young LTs and Captains to deal with this kind of chickensh!t without getting themselves hosed in the process? I have yet to find an effective notch for these chief flyer-haters. I've mixed it up with these guys before (one example: see about) and every time I'm the one getting told to back down.