Leadership at the 'Deid

[BQZip01]

I'm not your buddy, Guy!

I laughed

[HossHarris]

I'm not your buddy, Guy!

I'm not your GUY, Friend!

[TacAirCoug]

I think the problem out there is that people have too much free time because there are too many people out there. If you're in a combat zone, you don't need to be working 8 hour shifts 5 to 6 days a week. You're getting paid extra to be out there, so earn it!

Bingo. If you have time to check my sock color, you have time to go buy yourself a ticket and go the f*ck home.

[Butters]

I'm not your GUY, Friend!

I ain't your friend, palooka

[FourFans]

- BQZip01

buddy, guy, friend, palooka - I don't even know where to start...unfortunately I have plenty of free time on hand today.

Please try and learn something from this instead of just blowing it off because someone is critiquing you.

While I was there, I worked 12 hour days (absolute minimum of 12) seven days a week.

No one here is impressed. We're at war. 12 hours is the standard.

While Al Udeid is a critical node, it isn't directly the point end...though it can certainly be the thrust of the spear

Again. Geography has nothing to do with position on the spear. Barksdale can be the pointie end. You might want to re-evaluate your role-importance-decision-making paradigm. The 'Deid is everything from the pointie end of the spear to the weapons locker that holds the spear.

Hell common sense when it came to LAWS seemed to go out the window too. I was once pulled over in my commander's vehicle (an O-6) for not stopping at a stop sign............Internally, I'm thinking "You idiot. Way to give 40% on your job instead of 100%. I'm glad you're the cannon fodder if we ever get overrun"

The fact that your were driving your O-6 CC's car has no bearing on traffic laws...but it is quite telling that you included it and found it to be important. Here's a hint. RANK HAS NO BEARING ON LAW. Be it traffic laws or LOAC...the law is the law. Period.

I even saw the blue & red light party patrol across the street in the ditch watching traffic

So you're saying that you saw the cop and didn't double-check your driving. Poor SA.

The airman (straight up buck airman)

Remember that whole rank and laws thing? Apply here. Technically, the airman basic cop outranks a 4 star driver by one rank during any traffic stop or at any checkpoint...look it up.

Internally, I'm thinking "You idiot. Way to give 40% on your job instead of 100%. I'm glad you're the cannon fodder if we ever get overrun"

Yet another very telling quote. I'm really glad you gave 40% of your attention while driving your bosses car. If you really see SF as cannon fodder, I respectfully request that you go spend some quality time down at the cop shop. Until then, know that cops are some of the most overworked and under-appreciated jobs in the AF.

Good work on not getting up in arms during the traffic stop and letting the upper levels deal with it. That's how it should work when stuff goes wrong at the lower levels.

As for your entire other story...granted common sense is supposed to rule...but you've got to know that checking the box in front of Desk SSgt will never work...that's why we as aircrew preach this little thing called by: "attention to detail" Maybe some other career fields should take that to heart.

As for taking care of stupid people making excessive decisions at the lower levels, that's where the crew-dog concept should be understood AF wide. Example.

In the desert recently with my crew. Me and my crew member are in the gym lifting weights.

- My crew member is making some excessive noise when he sets down a heavy set of weights during one of his exercise.

- 2 services A1Cs tell him to stop...he response emotionally (mistake 1)...then they respond emotionally (mistake 2)

- The services NCOIC and I get involved - send the fighters to their corners - and work out the problem right then and there. The long and short was that the Services dudes had O-6s breathing down their neck about weightlifting injuries and people making too much noise in the gym. (we'll leave the judgment of the O-6s out of this argument...but all parties disagreed with the O-6 opinion in the matter...irregardless...the O-6 gave a lawful order and services was following it)

- That we took the time to understand each other's point of view at the Capt to TSgt level saved my crew member from being banned from the gym getting paperwork (O-6's rule).

THAT is the crew-dog concept. People need to know that VERY RARELY are Captains and TSgts out to hose each other. VERY OFTEN they are each trying to save their own ass and aren't willing to take 5 minutes to listen to the other side of the story. One person calling KIO and taking the emotions out of the situation can save a LOT of pain...especially in the desert where everyone suffers from SRH (sperm retention headaches).

BL: Know your role in the system. When in doubt, there's Common Sense and the Crew-dog Concept: USE THEM!

Wow...so this is what it feels like to be HerkDerka...I think I'm developing carpal-tunnel.

Cheers,

FF

[Guest dagoden]

Well said, FourFans130!

[Guest Sebastian]

Why is it that the all of the CGOC officer positions are in the comm squadron? Or better yet why is there even a CGOC at the 'deid.

But hey, great website...looks like they spent a lot of time on it.

[Guest Tip Tank]

I remember once giving a briefing to about 40 cadets. After the briefing another Lt came over and said, "You're rank is on wrong." I immediately realized what happened (my wife put the rank of for me after washing it...)

Fail. On so many levels...

[Herk Driver]

Herk,

I read the entire thing (over 3 days). I get the basics of the "shoeclerk mentality" out there. While I was there, I worked 12 hour days (absolute minimum of 12) seven days a week. I may have been a Comm weenie at the time, but I was well aware of where the pointy end of the spear is located. While Al Udeid is a critical node, it isn't directly the point end...though it can certainly be the thrust of the spear (pun intended).

Got it. Won't quote the whole thing.

1) My point was that you over-reacted to a post by C-21 because unlike other members here you assumed that he said that all people on Guam during Vietnam weren't in the sh!t.

2) I think we may be in violent agreement on the stupidity of AF cops; I used to be an SP Officer so I can understand where you are coming from and completely understand why the Airman gave you a ticket. He doesn't get to make judgement calls (after being told by a superior to go give you a ticket) and cops eat their young. You get to give your ticket to the CC like the reg directs and he gets to make a decision about repercussions. Then his boss gets to chew his @ss because he got made a fool out of. Right or wrong, that's how SP's operate. The airman in the other situation overreacted but again was doing what he was told. They don't get to make decisions or get their asses handed to them. But once he apprehended your buddy, the next response would have been to apprehend everyone that entered that building in a hostile manner.

3) Oh, by the way, FourFans is correct. In that situation, that airman would have and could have apprehended all of the people that stormed into his office. He out-ranks all of you in that particular siuation. Ever heard of interfering with the duties of a sentinel? He has the authority of the base/wing CC to execute the duties that he has been given and that includes apprehending officers. You should check out the UCMJ sometime. Quite interesting. They usually will call an SP Officer to come do that dirty work, but nonethless...

4) Refer back to my point #1.

[Guest dagoden]

Not to change the subject, but any new news on the wi-fi? Going back over very soon and I was just curious. Not very optimistic about it, just thought I'd ask if anyone knew.

[Guest Tip Tank]

Not to change the subject, but any new news on the wi-fi? Going back over very soon and I was just curious. Not very optimistic about it, just thought I'd ask if anyone knew.

Two weeks! Pfffff. They've been saying that for months now. They had one blurb about it this last week in the Desert Eagle Dispatch saying they were waiting on two nodes or something in the Queertari's hands, but they mentioned the first week in August or maybe sooner if things go well! Like I said, it showed up just once and that was it. I expect wi-fi to be up in about the same timeframe as BPC or the new Cadilacs...and I fully expect to keep being lied to about it along with many other things over here.

Edited July 30, 2008 by Tip Tank

[Guest OldAssGRunt]

I hate the 'ness there just as much as the next person, but I don't blame the guy who's pointing it out to me, hate the guy that signed the policy letter stating you have to wear reflective belts, or be in '___' uniform to eat chow. There's a commander somewhere up that chain that signed a letter saying to make it so, and odds are that cc is/was a Flyer... who was probably a young CGO at one point in time who hated the 'ness as much as everyone else... but when they dangled a cc opportunity & promotion in front of him he opt'ed for the CYA and signed those policy letters making everyone

hate that guy for selling out

[Guest Homestar]

A new policy came out yesterday via email that brightly colored Crocs (orange, pink, neon whatever) are no longer authorized. Colors such as blue, black, and tan are still authorized. I predict sales of the neon orange Crocs at the Bx will plunge. It amazes me the attention to minutae here. Good thing I brought my black flip flops.

[Vertigo]

A new policy came out yesterday via email that brightly colored Crocs (orange, pink, neon whatever) are no longer authorized. Colors such as blue, black, and tan are still authorized. I predict sales of the neon orange Crocs at the Bx will plunge. It amazes me the attention to minutae here. Good thing I brought my black flip flops.

Males in Crocs =

[MD]

2) I think we may be in violent agreement on the stupidity of AF cops; I used to be an SP Officer so I can understand where you are coming from and completely understand why the Airman gave you a ticket. He doesn't get to make judgement calls (after being told by a superior to go give you a ticket) and cops eat their young. You get to give your ticket to the CC like the reg directs and he gets to make a decision about repercussions. Then his boss gets to chew his @ss because he got made a fool out of. Right or wrong, that's how SP's operate. The airman in the other situation overreacted but again was doing what he was told. They don't get to make decisions or get their asses handed to them. But once he apprehended your buddy, the next response would have been to apprehend everyone that entered that building in a hostile manner.

3) Oh, by the way, FourFans is correct. In that situation, that airman would have and could have apprehended all of the people that stormed into his office. He out-ranks all of you in that particular siuation. Ever heard of interfering with the duties of a sentinel? He has the authority of the base/wing CC to execute the duties that he has been given and that includes apprehending officers. You should check out the UCMJ sometime. Quite interesting. They usually will call an SP Officer to come do that dirty work, but nonethless...

4) Refer back to my point #1.

[minor thread creep]

IMHO, it's absolute BS that the AF doesn't allow it's LE-section guys to make decisions on their own. To me, and as a cop myself, that methodology reduces the credibility of AF cops, not to mention any sort of development of an officer's (LE officer, not commissioned officer) personal initiative. The fact too that the cops eat their own certainly doesn't help to instill any sort of comraderie, and neither does the "us vs them" attitude rather than the "service" attitude I see many AF cops having towards the base populace. And it's not right or wrong, it's wrong period. The fact that SPs know this is how it is (the infamous "its always been that way"), and do nothing to change or work around it shows how inbred this way of thinking is. I see the same thing with some local PDs...can't/won't make a decision on scene and must call the Sgt on duty to get direction on some of the simplest things; whereas our county deputies and state troopers are nearly fully autonomous. Its too bad the AF doesn't want to develop its own cops in this way for when they're performing common patrol/traffic duties; and hence cops will still always be looked at as guys who went to basic open-general, or otherwise failed out of their previous tech school. And they'll continue to do retarded things like make a traffic stop for a 33 in a 30 zone, or a supposed incomplete stop at a stop sign. Not the individual cop's fault per se (failure of their training and supervision), but the failure of SF LE-side to change their negative image as a whole.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.......

[/minor thread creep]

[Herk Driver]

[minor thread creep]

And it's not right or wrong, it's wrong period.

Agreed, but didn't want to derail the thread and go down this rabbit hole, but since you did, I'll gladly oblige. What I said was that SF don't get to make a judgement call when he is ordered by a superior to go stop that car and give him a ticket by a superior that is sitting next to him.

The fact that SPs know this is how it is (the infamous "its always been that way"), and do nothing to change or work around it shows how inbred this way of thinking is.

That's why I got out of the business. Couldn't get traction to change anything as a 2Lt and always wanted to fly. There are plenty of guys out there trying to work around it, but they get smacked down when they try to operate on their own. See post above about situation where he apprehended guy and got shot down by his superior (pretty much on the spot; not after getting the facts).

but the failure of SF LE-side to change their negative image as a whole.[/minor thread creep]

There is no LE or Security anymore. They are SF, period.

[MD]

Agreed, but didn't want to derail the thread and go down this rabbit hole, but since you did, I'll gladly oblige. What I said was that SF don't get to make a judgement call when he is ordered by a superior to go stop that car and give him a ticket by a superior that is sitting next to him.

Yeah, I know...I didn't want to derail too much either. I see what you're saying now, and I agree that sucks for the airman patrolman.

That's why I got out of the business. Couldn't get traction to change anything as a 2Lt and always wanted to fly. There are plenty of guys out there trying to work around it, but they get smacked down when they try to operate on their own. See post above about situation where he apprehended guy and got shot down by his superior (pretty much on the spot; not after getting the facts).

Again, you were one of the good people that tried, but weren't allowed to succeed due to factors above you. You're effectively put in the same boat your subordinates are, and that sucks.

There is no LE or Security anymore. They are SF, period.

I know, I'm old school. Still think of it as LE/Security. I still go to the CBPO too.

[Guest Fogo]

Males in Crocs =

Agreed very much, I've spent years making fun of people who want to wear plastic shoes with holes. However... when it comes down to satisfying the "closed toe" and "heel strap" requirements... I'd rather do that than have to throw on my shoes for a quick trip.

Like a buddy of mine told me when I asked about crap I should bring. "Just do what will work man. Everyone looks you'll look too."

[navonfire]

A buddy of mine just sent this to me, have fun...

*From: SQ CSS Sent: 12:16 PM (local)

*To: SQ ALL

*

*Hey All,

*

*Just incase you're having any issues trying to watch a movie off the media web. It is currently running at full capacity *and cannot handle any more downloads. Please standby by and try again later.

*

*

[Guest Homestar]

A buddy of mine just sent this to me, have fun...

*From: SQ CSS Sent: 12:16 PM (local)

*To: SQ ALL

*

*Hey All,

*

*Just incase you're having any issues trying to watch a movie off the media web. It is currently running at full capacity *and cannot handle any more downloads. Please standby by and try again later.

*

*

I'm not surprised. They added The Girl Next Door recently.

[Herk Mafia]

- BQZip01

buddy, guy, friend, palooka - I don't even know where to start...unfortunately I have plenty of free time on hand today.

Please try and learn something from this instead of just blowing it off because someone is critiquing you.

No one here is impressed. We're at war. 12 hours is the standard.

Again. Geography has nothing to do with position on the spear. Barksdale can be the pointie end. You might want to re-evaluate your role-importance-decision-making paradigm. The 'Deid is everything from the pointie end of the spear to the weapons locker that holds the spear.

The fact that your were driving your O-6 CC's car has no bearing on traffic laws...but it is quite telling that you included it and found it to be important. Here's a hint. RANK HAS NO BEARING ON LAW. Be it traffic laws or LOAC...the law is the law. Period.

So you're saying that you saw the cop and didn't double-check your driving. Poor SA.

Remember that whole rank and laws thing? Apply here. Technically, the airman basic cop outranks a 4 star driver by one rank during any traffic stop or at any checkpoint...look it up.

Yet another very telling quote. I'm really glad you gave 40% of your attention while driving your bosses car. If you really see SF as cannon fodder, I respectfully request that you go spend some quality time down at the cop shop. Until then, know that cops are some of the most overworked and under-appreciated jobs in the AF.

Good work on not getting up in arms during the traffic stop and letting the upper levels deal with it. That's how it should work when stuff goes wrong at the lower levels.

As for your entire other story...granted common sense is supposed to rule...but you've got to know that checking the box in front of Desk SSgt will never work...that's why we as aircrew preach this little thing called by: "attention to detail" Maybe some other career fields should take that to heart.

As for taking care of stupid people making excessive decisions at the lower levels, that's where the crew-dog concept should be understood AF wide. Example.

In the desert recently with my crew. Me and my crew member are in the gym lifting weights.

- My crew member is making some excessive noise when he sets down a heavy set of weights during one of his exercise.

- 2 services A1Cs tell him to stop...he response emotionally (mistake 1)...then they respond emotionally (mistake 2)

- The services NCOIC and I get involved - send the fighters to their corners - and work out the problem right then and there. The long and short was that the Services dudes had O-6s breathing down their neck about weightlifting injuries and people making too much noise in the gym. (we'll leave the judgment of the O-6s out of this argument...but all parties disagreed with the O-6 opinion in the matter...irregardless...the O-6 gave a lawful order and services was following it)

- That we took the time to understand each other's point of view at the Capt to TSgt level saved my crew member from being banned from the gym getting paperwork (O-6's rule).

THAT is the crew-dog concept. People need to know that VERY RARELY are Captains and TSgts out to hose each other. VERY OFTEN they are each trying to save their own ass and aren't willing to take 5 minutes to listen to the other side of the story. One person calling KIO and taking the emotions out of the situation can save a LOT of pain...especially in the desert where everyone suffers from SRH (sperm retention headaches).

BL: Know your role in the system. When in doubt, there's Common Sense and the Crew-dog Concept: USE THEM!

Wow...so this is what it feels like to be HerkDerka...I think I'm developing carpal-tunnel.

Cheers,

FF

Did you just use irregardless?

[FourFans]

Did you just use irregardless?

I'm glad someone appreciated that literary nuance.

FF

[Guest Homestar]

Posting wirelessly from the BRA. Who would have thought pigs would fly. Get it while it's hot.

[itsokimapilot]

Did you just use irregardless?

Taken from Urban Dictionary.com:

1. irregardless 593 up, 118 down

Used by people who ignorantly mean to say regardless. According to webster, it is a word, but since the prefix "ir" and the suffx "less" both mean "not or with" they cancel each other out, so what you end up with is regard. When you use this to try to say you don't care about something, you end up saying that you do. Of course everyone knows what you mean to say and only a pompous,rude asshole will correct you.

Wife: "Irregardless is not a word, dummy"

Husband: "Kiss my ass bitch! I'm still going to the strip club tonight!"

Irregardless of the connotation, I've been busted using this word. Nice work

[Guest Boom]

Posting wirelessly from the BRA. Who would have thought pigs would fly. Get it while it's hot.

Posting wirelessly from Pete's Place at Manas. Just like the Deid minus the sand and mixed drinks.