Leadership at the 'Deid

[FireMission]

Spend more of your time thinking about real warriors in Afg getting killed by IED's and snipers then having to wear your flip flops or gay reflective belts.

If you read the almost 90 pages of this thread, you would see that this is exactly what people on this forum are talking about. The point here is that leadership is NOT thinking about IEDs and snipers. They are focused on the flip flops and reflective belts. Recommend you build some more SA on the discussion here.

Edited December 19, 2009 by FireMission

[pawnman]

Hey Loadsmith - only responded b/c this topic is so stupid. Sorry for mis-spells, I've got a job to do here and no time qc my work. You talk about leadership, i doubt you could lead your buddy to the dfac w/o getting lost. So before question the folks that have served longer, deployed more and commanded squadrons, groups and wings - think about what you want to say, say it to yourself and then shut the F--k up.

Absolutely. The USAF is all about shutting up and coloring. I mean, where would we be if people started questioning the status quo? I bet you never saw Billy Mitchell or Jamie Boyd question the decisions of someone placed over them. You certainly never saw someone like Robin Olds think outside the box. Nope, they were pure followers, through and through, with no original thought or actions.

Yesiree, I sure am glad that the USAF I joined has given up on all that innovation and taken all the decisions away from me. I won't have to do any thinking until I'm a Lt Col, and even then, only if I'm a DO or SQ/CC.

[Pitt4401]

Hey Loadsmith - only responded b/c this topic is so stupid. Sorry for mis-spells, I've got a job to do here and no time qc my work. You talk about leadership, i doubt you could lead your buddy to the dfac w/o getting lost. So before question the folks that have served longer, deployed more and commanded squadrons, groups and wings - think about what you want to say, say it to yourself and then shut the F--k up.

[BFM this]

[...]I've got a job to do here and no time qc my work.[...]shut the F--k up.

Didn't you process my last deployment claim?

[pawnman]

Didn't you process my last deployment claim?

No, he kicked it back and told you to fix it, without telling you what was wrong with it.

[Vertigo]

... i doubt you could lead your buddy to the dfac w/o getting lost...

The telltale use of "dfac" automatically lets others know he is not like them.

[Clayton Bigsby]

This site was just sent to me from a friend - WOW! What is the problem with you all on this forum, did you not volunteer for military service? Do you complain thise much on teh 1st and 15th when you deposit your pay? Spend more of your time thinking about real warriors in Afg getting killed by IED's and snipers then having to wear your flip flops or gay reflective belts.

Robin Olds would have kicked your ass and told you to stop crying.

I recommend you stop being such a faggot

Seriously, get bent. Spewing party line is lame.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Clayton Bigsby

[brickhistory]

commanded squadrons, groups and wings

Lack of basic English skills aside, this little nugget contained within your weak diatribe is exactly the point.

Those commanding at Al Udeid should have leadership skills.

[gimmeaplane]

Finally, I don't actually blame the support shops as much as I blame the leaders, who are overwhelmingly bag-wearers. Why they don't get it together enough to man a critical customer support shop so they can stay open more than a few hours as week I don't understand. Why they're not out there, with the troops, experiencing these problems and using the power of their birds and stars to fix things, I don't understand. Last time we had a general officer come through our squadron the place looked immaculate, everyone was working in their shops, planes were taking off, and we were running on all cylinders, and this was 6pm in the evening at home station. Why more generals don't happen to visit these deployed support shops to spark similar reaction, again, I don't understand.

I would bet dollars to donuts that there aren't enough finance types in theater. It stands to reason that 24hr ops should have 24hr (or at least daily) support. They probably have a small shop doing customer service, shuffling money to contracts for toilet paper or whatnot, and tracking expenditures for all things Big Blue in the region. This at the same time we deploy too many to sit behind a desk and do general admin for 4-6 hrs a day. So shack on leadership issue for allocating bodies/resources. But I'm just BSing.

[SuperWSO]

I'm starting to wonder if someone at Air War College is now briefing this site to the future leaders of the world based on recent responses. We had B52IR99 coming off the top rope on his first post over in the "Minot Wing/CC canned" thread." We have REMF who is actually value added, but looks like he was sent to quell the uprising, and now we have Cptmorgan - again trying to come off the top rope with his "shut up and color" first post. I'm seeing a trend toward more supervision at BaseOps. I never had the illusion that this was completely anonymous, but it appears that the word is getting out - we even had a tops in blue dude in that thread. WTF?

[moosepileit]

Well, we've got Finance Guy, maybe time to get a Legal guy on baseops- Seems some new rank-bearing anonymous type forgot the difference between quantity and quality(of leadership)and 1st Amendment vs. UCMJ.

OK, rush back to your job, never dally when another bad leadership decision or indecision awaits.

Hey Loadsmith - only responded b/c this topic is so stupid. Sorry for mis-spells, I've got a job to do here and no time qc my work. You talk about leadership, i doubt you could lead your buddy to the dfac w/o getting lost. So before question the folks that have served longer, deployed more and commanded squadrons, groups and wings - think about what you want to say, say it to yourself and then shut the F--k up.

Edited December 21, 2009 by moosepileit

[Guest REMF]

I'm starting to wonder if someone at Air War College is now briefing this site to the future leaders of the world based on recent responses. We had B52IR99 coming off the top rope on his first post over in the "Minot Wing/CC canned" thread." We have REMF who is actually value added, but looks like he was sent to quell the uprising, and now we have Cptmorgan - again trying to come off the top rope with his "shut up and color" first post. I'm seeing a trend toward more supervision at BaseOps. I never had the illusion that this was completely anonymous, but it appears that the word is getting out - we even had a tops in blue dude in that thread. WTF?

I can/will only speak for myself.

If integrity still counts for anything, believe me when I write that I am contributing because I choose to not because I've been ordered to. My leadership has no clue, nor do any of my troops/peers/etc,any idea who I am or what I'm doing.

I actually do understand that everyone needs a place to vent...so do I. So, I don't mean to intrude upon that and will leave if asked to do so. I simply thought that a different perspective might be useful to understanding, not agreeing, some of what is going on.

And, I think that having leadership listen to what you guys are saying is pretty much a constant thread, along with leadership, of this and many other topics.

REMF

Sir,

Not meant as a personal attack. There are many support folks that work very hard, no doubt. The deployed organic support and MX personal from my squadron I'm working with right now are some of the best in the AF and they work more hours than I do to make sure we are prepared to take off for any mission at any time. On the other hand, I have for my argument example A:

I'm not currently at Balad where this picture was taken, nor do I know the story behind it (i.e. exercises impacting normal hours, etc. etc.) On the other hand, how is it even within the realm of acceptable for a customer service center that all troops rely on to be open for 10.5 out of 168 hours in a week. That's 6.25% of the time. 6.25%?? I'm not a finance guy and I don't how how they run their shop, but if your primary job is to process base customer's financial transactions and help them ensure they get paid correctly (because it's every service member's responsibility to ensure...etc), how can you only be open 6.25% of the time?!? It is easily possible that, I don't know, customers work in their own shops or are flying sorties during each and every single one of those 10.5 hours and then where does that leave them?

My thought in bringing up the ops mindset vs. the support mindset was not to set off a flame war or stir the pot of rivalry. There are plenty of support troops who bend over backwards to get the mission done and support the base (not just ops people, but MSG troops supporting MX, Med, other MSG, etc.). In my limited time in the ops world I have yet to see an example of when we failed to get the mission done one way or another, weather, MX status, manning issues be damned. Yes, I can get my finance question answered tomorrow but we can also drop ordnance on that cave tomorrow too. It's just a mindset that IMHO needs to change, and I know there are about 6.9 million pieces of anecdotal evidence running around out there that confirm that this phenomenon of support not actually supporting anyone is not limited to the example I provided.

Finally, I don't actually blame the support shops as much as I blame the leaders, who are overwhelmingly bag-wearers. Why they don't get it together enough to man a critical customer support shop so they can stay open more than a few hours as week I don't understand. Why they're not out there, with the troops, experiencing these problems and using the power of their birds and stars to fix things, I don't understand. Last time we had a general officer come through our squadron the place looked immaculate, everyone was working in their shops, planes were taking off, and we were running on all cylinders, and this was 6pm in the evening at home station. Why more generals don't happen to visit these deployed support shops to spark similar reaction, again, I don't understand.

I can't defend that sign...pretty bad but we don't know the back story to that one. I can't agree with you more...when I go to finance, the DFAC, or any other "customer service" area and they aren't open, I get ticked. One of the reasons why my unit, and many others across the base, are open 24-7...a lot of time just waiting for the phone call. And, if we need back shop support that isn't on duty 24-7, they all have cell phones which they are required to carry and answer. I wish I could give you some examples of the calls we've responded to in the middle of the night and the number of calls I get every night to let me know we have a priority job open and then closed...to do so would do away with my anonymity.

However, I like to think that while not universal, the leadership you are looking for and the service you are asking for is present. Not everywhere and maybe not every single time you, or I, would like. But, we do try damn hard.

REMF

[SuperWSO]

I can/will only speak for myself.

I actually do understand that everyone needs a place to vent...so do I. So, I don't mean to intrude upon that and will leave if asked to do so. I simply thought that a different perspective might be useful to understanding, not agreeing, some of what is going on.

And, I think that having leadership listen to what you guys are saying is pretty much a constant thread, along with leadership, of this and many other topics.

REMF

REMF,

I'm not "over there" at the moment, but I think your time has been well spent on this thread. It provides some perspective instead of continuing a one sided rant. Please continue.

[Guest REMF]

I'm not advocating that he take it down, and if he did, he would be in an even worse position. The main point that I'm getting at is that it is pretty telling that "the crowd goes wild" when their leadership is publicly insulted like that. I can tell you that at my home station unit if someone said the same kind of things against our leadership they'd be greeted with silence, boos or an outright ass whipping. That's because we actually respect our leadership and an outsider coming in and publicly insulting them like that would simplt not be tolerated, forget cheered.

Being a bag wearer does nothing for him. Poor leadership is poor leadership, regardless of what uniform is worn, or even what you did in a prior life. I know guys who went to pilot training when BG Wilson was the WG/CC at KCBM. They generally liked what the guy did there, and when he was announced to be taking over at AUAB, people were hoping and expecting a change for the better from the previous leadership there. Instead, things have only gotten worse and more queepy.

Sorry...wasn't trying to ignore you...when I finally got around to logging back in, I went to the last page and missed your comment on the previous page.

I absolutely hate that you guys feel this way...especially when I sit in the meetings and know what BG Wilson and Col Schultz are trying to do to make things better, not worse around here. I know you guys hate the RB thing but in all honesty, I haven't done a RB check in months...we really may have put this one behind us and reached an equilibrium.

REMF

[Mephisto]

Just for reference, the mission of deployed finance isnt to cash peoples checks, it is to pay out on government obligations to keep the base running. At BIAP the finance office had similar hours for giving people spending money. The rest of the time they were working on paying to get critical supplies to those who needed them, a job that they were exceedingly good at. An impressive distinction from Army finance which has limited CS hours and still cant get stuff people order paid for.

[Guest TheBull]

An impressive distinction from Army finance which has limited CS hours and still cant get stuff people order paid for.

No kidding - literally open 1000-1400, 6 days a week in the IZ and DFAS never got my TSP paperwork from them. They also could never keep the Eagle Cash kiosks working, and they always seemed to have "laptop problems" anytime you needed something fixed with your card and they'd tell you to go to a different FOB to get served.

Give me an Air Force finance office any day - some of us don't know how good we have it...

[capt4fans]

No kidding - literally open 1000-1400, 6 days a week in the IZ and DFAS never got my TSP paperwork from them. They also could never keep the Eagle Cash kiosks working, and they always seemed to have "laptop problems" anytime you needed something fixed with your card and they'd tell you to go to a different FOB to get served.

Give me an Air Force finance office any day - some of us don't know how good we have it...

I'll pass on AF Finance. I've had to do their jobs too many times to count. Paying Big Blue $1,500 out of my pocket while I researched my travel voucher problems that they caused. Long story short was that after argunig for 2 more months, I get my $5,000+ back to me. Their excuse for the mixup is that they thought I PCS'd to my base that I was TDY enroute at. Kind of hard to screw that one up since that's the reason for the orders to be cut and states so in plain language on top of them. That and trying to get Hostile Fire pay turned off for 4 months after I came home from a tour. AF Finance $uck$.

[Guest B52IR99]

I'm starting to wonder if someone at Air War College is now briefing this site to the future leaders of the world based on recent responses. We had B52IR99 coming off the top rope on his first post over in the "Minot Wing/CC canned" thread." We have REMF who is actually value added, but looks like he was sent to quell the uprising, and now we have Cptmorgan - again trying to come off the top rope with his "shut up and color" first post. I'm seeing a trend toward more supervision at BaseOps. I never had the illusion that this was completely anonymous, but it appears that the word is getting out - we even had a tops in blue dude in that thread. WTF?

A bit paranoid are we? No I'm not at War College nor have I ever been there. I saw a ridiculous discussion going on about how the 5th BW commander shouldn't have been fired because he was a "nice guy" and I provided my opinion and clarified some facts. As far as this discussion goes; I spent an AEF tour+ at AUAB and did my weekly battles with various people who pointed out my repeated "out of uniform" infractions as I went from my room to the cadillac to take a leak. I did what I've always done throughout my career, I acknowledged the input and then kept walking to the bathroom in my civilian cloths. No one ever asked my name or rank but I would have provided it had they asked. If they felt strong enough about it to upchannel I would have happily explained to my SQ/CC why I didn't put on PT gear at 0200 while making a relief trip to the cadilac. If my SQ/CC felt strongly enough he would have directed my to, in the future, make sure I had my PT gear and reflective belt on when going to take a midnight leak. From that point on I would have complied. None of this happened and its been my experience over a decade+++ that it never happens. It's often more trouble than it's worth for people to report violations of minor infractions to silly rules.

[F16Deuce]

It seems that the nonsense of the 'Deid has spread to other bases in the AOR. A couple days ago they started posting reflecto-belt Nazi's outside of the chow hall here...

[Happy29]

It seems that the nonsense of the 'Deid has spread to other bases in the AOR. A couple days ago they started posting reflecto-belt Nazi's outside of the chow hall here...

At least we have a 24/7 grab n go now. I'll take the trade off.

[BFM this]

What happened to the pin?

This thread is a cautionary tale that should be preserved. I'm thinking of printing it and putting it in a binder labeled 3.1-SHOE

Edited January 7, 2010 by BFM this

[capt4fans]

What happened to the pin?

This thread is a cautionary tale that should be preserved. I'm thinking of printing it and putting it in a binder labeled 3.1-SHOE

I say make it 11-2SHOE-REMF.

[Guest filthy_liar]

Has anyone determined if REMF is actually a squadron commander? I don't know of any who would put that much effort into defending reflective belts on an internet forum. Especially while deployed.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Has anyone determined if REMF is actually a squadron commander? I don't know of any who would put that much effort into defending reflective belts on an internet forum. Especially while deployed.

no reason to doubt him

[BQZip01]

Has anyone determined if REMF is actually a squadron commander? I don't know of any who would put that much effort into defending reflective belts on an internet forum. Especially while deployed.

I've corresponded with him offline (no I won't give out any more details), but from those conversations and what he's stated here, he seems legit.