Leadership at the 'Deid

[Guest REMF]

Has anyone determined if REMF is actually a squadron commander? I don't know of any who would put that much effort into defending reflective belts on an internet forum. Especially while deployed.

Understand that I've killed this forum...hate that. Not sure what else I can do for you to 'convince' you that I'm a Sq CC. F'king disgusted that a little feedback kills it all.

REMF

[HoHum]

Understand that I've killed this forum...hate that. Not sure what else I can do for you to 'convince' you that I'm a Sq CC. F'king disgusted that a little feedback kills it all.

REMF

I think Zip's voucher for ya stands. And I don't think you've killed it. The Reflective Rant seems to have dried up for a bit as well. Either people got scared or the pushback worked for a bit.

[brickhistory]

Carl from "Slingblade" voice to ON:

"Uhhmm, some folks call it "feedback," some folks call it defending an indefensible (and retarded) position, uhhmmm."

Voice to OFF.

Edited January 9, 2010 by brickhistory

[Stiffler]

Carl from "Slingblade" voice to ON:

"Uhhmm, some folks call it "feedback," some folks call it defending an indefensible (and retarded) position, uhhmmm."

Voice to OFF.

Ya i was interested. Frankly I think REMF, while admirable for fighting the REMF doucher fight, was pushing for indefensible positions but I got tired of reading and seeing the tit for tat. The sad thing is I think he thinks he won. he didnt win, just wore us all out!

Edited January 9, 2010 by Stiffler

[Vertigo]

Understand that I've killed this forum...hate that. Not sure what else I can do for you to 'convince' you that I'm a Sq CC. F'king disgusted that a little feedback kills it all.

REMF

You didn't. This topic waxes and wanes. It'll be hot for a couple months... then nothing for awhile. Then some shoe will do something completely retarded at the Deid and the whole thing will kick back up.

You give yourself too much credit.

[slacker]

You didn't. This topic waxes and wanes. It'll be hot for a couple months... then nothing for awhile. Then some shoe will do something completely retarded at the Deid and the whole thing will kick back up.

You give yourself too much credit.

I don't know, I grew tired of the constant parenting. Got to let the kindergardeners at least complain about coloring in the lines on the playground. Don't need the teacher out there explaining why it's important.

[Splash95]

I don't know, I grew tired of the constant parenting. Got to let the kindergardeners at least complain about coloring in the lines on the playground. Don't need the teacher out there explaining why it's important.

For what it's worth, I actually think REMF made good contributions in terms of explaining the leadership position, even if some are guaranteed to reject whatever reasons he offers. I agree with the above posters, however, in that he certainly hasn't "killed" this forum. Not having to deal with the Dumbness at the 'Deid myself, I anticipate reading the next story of superb shoe-manship with guilty pleasure.

[BQZip01]

For what it's worth, I actually think REMF made good contributions in terms of explaining the leadership position, even if some are guaranteed to reject whatever reasons he offers. I agree with the above posters, however, in that he certainly hasn't "killed" this forum. Not having to deal with the Dumbness at the 'Deid myself, I anticipate reading the next story of superb shoe-manship with guilty pleasure.

2

REMF, your perspective here seems to have helped calm the waters. I also agree that your assessment that an "equilibrium" has been established at the deid seems accurate as there hasn't been much serious shoeclerkery reported in the past few weeks (peace is a good thing). That said, let's all realize the thread is 90 pages long too. Where there's smoke, there is often fire. Where there's a LOT of smoke...

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

2

REMF, your perspective here seems to have helped calm the waters. I also agree that your assessment that an "equilibrium" has been established at the deid seems accurate as there hasn't been much serious shoeclerkery reported in the past few weeks (peace is a good thing). That said, let's all realize the thread is 90 pages long too. Where there's smoke, there is often fire. Where there's a LOT of smoke...

agreed... my last stint at the deid ended at the height of the rebellion. it sounds like it really has calmed down there, but we'll see. I think REMF was the best addition to this thread in the past 50 pages.

[Toro]

I think REMF was the best addition to this thread in the past 50 pages.

Agreed. Finance Guy got shit on when he first showed up trying to defend the finance offices, but he gutted it out and is now a moderator and one of our most beneficial contributors. Having started this thread so long ago, I don't see REMF as trying to defend indefensible actions, I see him as trying to put things in perspective of the leadership. Kudos to you for hanging around, and even having a bit of self-deprecating humor with your profile name.

[BQZip01]

Agreed. Finance Guy got shit on when he first showed up trying to defend the finance offices, but he gutted it out and is now a moderator and one of our most beneficial contributors. Having started this thread so long ago, I don't see REMF as trying to defend indefensible actions, I see him as trying to put things in perspective of the leadership. Kudos to you for hanging around, and even having a bit of self-deprecating humor with your profile name.

Hell yeah, Toro

[Guest ReflectivityRules]

Read this article about how the CIA's bureaucracy is hampering operations, how the operators succeed despite the Agency's best efforts to turn everything into a slow process understandable and controlled by shoe-clerks at headquarters. When you read the article, replace CIA with Air Force and let us know if you were nodding your head yes when reading: https://us.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/11/faddis.cia.needs.reform/index.html

[Prosuper]

I thought this a good place to post a link, this is what it is all about with our CSAR guys doing the mission despite shoeclerkness that goes on. These were taken by Michael Yon a independent journalist prior USA special forces.

https://www.michaelyon-online.com/pedros.htm

[DFRESH]

Read this article about how the CIA's bureaucracy is hampering operations, how the operators succeed despite the Agency's best efforts to turn everything into a slow process understandable and controlled by shoe-clerks at headquarters. When you read the article, replace CIA with Air Force and let us know if you were nodding your head yes when reading: https://us.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/11/faddis.cia.needs.reform/index.html

This line:

It has calcified from the risk-taking organization it was in its youth into a rigid bureaucracy in which more emphasis is placed on process than it is on mission accomplishment.

really hit home with me. I'm just a ROTC puke, but that line pisses me off. During FT, we did a lot of time at the Leadership Reaction Course (might be familiar from SOS and ASBC for you AD guys that didn't do FT there)... anyways, it was made extremely clear that out of 100 points, mission accomplishment was only 3 points! I can't tell you how many times I heard "It's not mission accomplishment, it's the process you use".... copy, so as long as I followed the checklist, it doesn't matter if I make it back from my next long XC? Shit, next time I land in Key West, I'm just staying there... hey, I followed the checklist! I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that the idea was to get us into a process for solving problems, but how many people do you figure left FT brainwashed to believe that mission accomplishment < coloring within the lines? And how many of them are gonna end up in some squadron where they won't get slapped around for being dumb, and then they progress up the ranks and now... Mission Accomplishment does not matter if you didn't follow our path to get there....

I'm young, and dumb, and you know the rest.... but still, from the bottom looking up, this kinda stuff doesn't seem right....

//rant off

[BQZip01]

This line:

It has calcified from the risk-taking organization it was in its youth into a rigid bureaucracy in which more emphasis is placed on process than it is on mission accomplishment.

really hit home with me. I'm just a ROTC puke, but that line pisses me off. During FT, we did a lot of time at the Leadership Reaction Course (might be familiar from SOS and ASBC for you AD guys that didn't do FT there)... anyways, it was made extremely clear that out of 100 points, mission accomplishment was only 3 points! I can't tell you how many times I heard "It's not mission accomplishment, it's the process you use".... copy, so as long as I followed the checklist, it doesn't matter if I make it back from my next long XC? Shit, next time I land in Key West, I'm just staying there... hey, I followed the checklist! I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that the idea was to get us into a process for solving problems, but how many people do you figure left FT brainwashed to believe that mission accomplishment < coloring within the lines? And how many of them are gonna end up in some squadron where they won't get slapped around for being dumb, and then they progress up the ranks and now... Mission Accomplishment does not matter if you didn't follow our path to get there....

I'm young, and dumb, and you know the rest.... but still, from the bottom looking up, this kinda stuff doesn't seem right....

//rant off

I'm sure glad that he 5BW leadership hasn't bought into that, but it seems we have no choice for inspections...reminds me of the movie Heartbreak Ridge

<sigh>

[JeepGuyC17]

This line:

It has calcified from the risk-taking organization it was in its youth into a rigid bureaucracy in which more emphasis is placed on process than it is on mission accomplishment.

really hit home with me. I'm just a ROTC puke, but that line pisses me off. During FT, we did a lot of time at the Leadership Reaction Course (might be familiar from SOS and ASBC for you AD guys that didn't do FT there)... anyways, it was made extremely clear that out of 100 points, mission accomplishment was only 3 points! I can't tell you how many times I heard "It's not mission accomplishment, it's the process you use".... copy, so as long as I followed the checklist, it doesn't matter if I make it back from my next long XC? Shit, next time I land in Key West, I'm just staying there... hey, I followed the checklist! I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that the idea was to get us into a process for solving problems, but how many people do you figure left FT brainwashed to believe that mission accomplishment < coloring within the lines? And how many of them are gonna end up in some squadron where they won't get slapped around for being dumb, and then they progress up the ranks and now... Mission Accomplishment does not matter if you didn't follow our path to get there....

I'm young, and dumb, and you know the rest.... but still, from the bottom looking up, this kinda stuff doesn't seem right....

//rant off

ROTC has always been a place to actively teach and instill shoeclerkery in potential officers at an early age, under the guise of buzz phrases like "attention to detail" etc. Do they still play the "sports" at FT where more emphasis is placed on rigid adherance to the rules and calling "point of order" on the other team's violations than on any kind of athletic prowess?

[DFRESH]

ROTC has always been a place to actively teach and instill shoeclerkery in potential officers at an early age, under the guise of buzz phrases like "attention to detail" etc. Do they still play the "sports" at FT where more emphasis is placed on rigid adherance to the rules and calling "point of order" on the other team's violations than on any kind of athletic prowess?

Fortunately they did away with the sports @ FT, but they probably got rid of it because the fat kids felt like they were being singled out. Here's a point of order, don't be a fatass!

[08Dawg]

ROTC has always been a place to actively teach and instill shoeclerkery in potential officers at an early age, under the guise of buzz phrases like "attention to detail" etc. Do they still play the "sports" at FT where more emphasis is placed on rigid adherance to the rules and calling "point of order" on the other team's violations than on any kind of athletic prowess?

Hasn't been that long since I've been there, and yes, they do. My team lost a game once because this one freaking girl kept calling out the fact that my shoe laces weren't tucked in. Tucked 'em in, they fell out, "Point of order, his shoe laces are untucked!" FML...

[JeepGuyC17]

Hasn't been that long since I've been there, and yes, they do. My team lost a game once because this one freaking girl kept calling out the fact that my shoe laces weren't tucked in. Tucked 'em in, they fell out, "Point of order, his shoe laces are untucked!" FML...

Ah, so many memories. I had forgotten about the shoelace thing. The sad part about ROTC is that even potential aviators with the requisite highly calibrated bullshit detector have to play the game since ROTC is controlled by the shoeclerks and they are the keepers of the gates to UPT.

[theSituation]

Ah, so many memories. I had forgotten about the shoelace thing. The sad part about ROTC is that even potential aviators with the requisite highly calibrated bullshit detector have to play the game since ROTC is controlled by the shoeclerks and they are the keepers of the gates to UPT.

I must say that it's absolutely fascinating watching new ROTC LTs try and get out of that ROTC mindset. There are about 80 ROTC kids waiting around here just itching for something to do, so what they choose is to harp on each other and talk a lot of sh!t about their peers. Its going to be interesting watching their progression into the AD Air Force. I have faith though.

[contraildash]

The famous point of order. Not to be stereotypical, ok, to be stereotypical we had this skinny 4 eye'd geek kid with no athletic skills (everyone knows the type). He pulled the point of order crap during ultimate frisbee (ultimately gay frisbee). I lost my temper, told him to stuff it, play the game, and subsequently I stood on the sideline for the rest of the game saluting my peers. Fun times.

Also played the whole "decision making process" vs "getting sh*t done" at OTS. The mission argument came up many a time. Felt the underlying tone of "shut up and color".

...I really hope I never have to get an ammo can full of rocks across a moat and over a frick'n wall...

[sky_king]

I remember the "get the ammo container from the platform without touching the rocks" thing. I just grabbed a branch laying on the ground, reached out, lifted up the container and brought it back behind the line. The field training instructors shit themselves and I ended up doing pushups. Leave it to the government to punish an idea that takes one person, 30 seconds and $0 to implement as opposed to a committee of 8, 10 minutes and succeeds only 50% of the time.

[BQZip01]

I remember the "get the ammo container from the platform without touching the rocks" thing. I just grabbed a branch laying on the ground, reached out, lifted up the container and brought it back behind the line. The field training instructors shit themselves and I ended up doing pushups. Leave it to the government to punish an idea that takes one person, 30 seconds and $0 to implement as opposed to a committee of 8, 10 minutes and succeeds only 50% of the time.

How else would we keep the overinflated prices + contractors in business?

[DFRESH]

Comparing the recent posts to the other 90 pages, I'm beginning to suspect that the Deid switched over to AETC, and forgot to tell everybody...

[JeepGuyC17]

Comparing the recent posts to the other 90 pages, I'm beginning to suspect that the Deid switched over to AETC, and forgot to tell everybody...

At least then we'd get holidays off