Learjet 60 Crash

[Guest Cap-10]

From CNN.com

Blink-182's Barker critically injured in plane crash

(CNN) -- A man who came across a fiery jet crash saw former Blink-182 drummer Travis Barker and disc jockey Adam "DJ AM" Goldstein trying to extinguish the flames on their bodies by ripping off their clothing.

"We turned to the jet to try and see if there was anything we could do, but immediately, there was nothing anyone could do," William Owens told CNN affiliate WIS in Columbia, South Carolina. "I felt ill or sick to think that these lives were snuffed out at that point."

The two men were in critical condition with extensive burns Saturday. The crash killed four other people on board, authorities said.

The Learjet 60 carrying six people, including Barker and Goldstein, was taking off from the Columbia Metropolitan Airport in South Carolina on Friday night when it went off the runway. The plane crashed through light towers and an antenna array before crossing a road and stopping at an embankment, authorities said.

Owens came across the plane wreck while driving and stopped to see whether he could help.

Lexington County Coroner Harry O. Harman said all the dead in Friday's crash were Californians.

He identified them as pilot Sarah Lemmon, 31, of Anaheim Hills; co-pilot James Bland, 52, of Carlsbad; Chris Baker, 29, of Studio City; and Charles Still, 25, of Los Angeles.

The Associated Press reported that Baker was an assistant to Barker and Still was a security guard for the musician.

Owens told WIS-TV he was driving on Highway 302 when he saw a fireball. Owens stopped and crossed across the road, which was doused with fuel, to get close to the wreckage.

Barker was standing in the road, trying to extinguish his burning pants, Owens told WIS-TV.

Owens and Goldstein walked toward the plane, but there was nothing they could do to help, he said.

Federal investigators recovered the cockpit voice recorder from the crash site but said they aren't sure whether information on the device survived the blaze.

Investigators are also obtaining recordings of conversations between controllers in the tower and the jet's two-person crew, said National Transportation Safety Board spokeswoman Debbie Hersman.

"Air traffic controllers did observe sparks from the aircraft as it was going down the runway and immediately alerted fire-rescue crews at the airport," Hersman said Saturday evening in West Columbia.

The National Transportation Safety Board has sent team to West Columbia to investigate the crash.

The Learjet 60 crashed on takeoff at 11:53 p.m. Friday.

Beth Frits, spokeswoman at the Joseph Still Burn Center, in Augusta, Georgia, said Barker and Goldstein arrived at the hospital early Saturday. She said both men had "extensive burns." Watch charred wreckage of the plane »

Barker and Goldstein had played at a huge free outdoor concert in Columbia's Five Points district on Saturday night, CNN affiliate WIS-TV said.

Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said the twin-engine private jet was cleared for takeoff on a flight to Van Nuys, California, and began its takeoff roll a few minutes before midnight.

Air traffic controllers "saw sparks coming from the runway -- whether that was from the aircraft or its engines, we don't know," Bergen said Saturday.

"They overran the end of runway 11. They impacted the antenna array and a number of lights at the end of the runway. They went through the perimeter fence and across the roadway here," Hersman said Saturday. "There was a significant post-crash fire."

The crash closed the airport, which is Columbia's main commercial and passenger terminal, and it remained closed late Saturday afternoon. The airport's Web site listed nine commercial airline flights canceled through 7 p.m. Saturday.

Hersman said the airport would not reopen until investigators finished collecting debris from the runway and crash site.

She said investigators would look at every aspect of the crash, from the pilots' schedules to the aircraft's condition. She said it was a fairly new airplane, manufactured in 2006 and certified to operate in 2007.

In addition to playing with Blink-182, Barker appeared in the MTV reality show "Meet the Barkers" along with his wife at the time, former Miss USA Shanna Moakler, according to MTV's Web site.

Didn't see any mention of who the jet was operated by.....privately owned? Fractional?

To the crew and passengers that lost their lives,

Cap-10

[Vertigo]

My condolences to the families of those lost...

Hopefully Travis will be alright. I had the opportunity to have a conversation one afternoon last year while working VIP security at a local concert venue. We chatted for probably an hour and half and I got to say despite his appearance this is one guy that impressed the hell out of me... from his work ethic to just how intelligent he really is. An all around good guy was my impression of him. I've met some real a-holes doing this part time gig; and I've met some very genuinely good people- Travis falls in the later category. Good luck Travis!

[StoleIt]

I am a big DJ AM fan. Travis Barker and them do an amazing DJ/Drums set.

Wish them a speedy recovery and my condolences to the families of those lost.

[cragspider]

From Foxnews.com - The jet, which was headed for Van Nuys, Calif., is owned by Global Exec Aviation, a California-based charter company, and was certified to operate last year, Hersman said.

Edited September 21, 2008 by cragspider

[yerfer]

Sad stuff. I met Travis some years ago and that dude HATES flying. Must of been a nightmare.

[Bluto]

They said they blew a tire and tried to abort the takeoff.

[Check 6]

Hmmm, no discussion here of the flight crew. Yea, I bet it was a bitch for the pilots, Sarah Lemmon and my friend Jim Bland. They were dealt a shit sandwich with a blown tire in a Lear that has piss-poor brakes and no protection from the damage that follows a blown tire event, all by design. This airframe had less than 200 hours total time.

I have known Jim for 25+ years. He recently retired after a long career as a pilot with CBP, formerly US Customs Air Support. We flew together in Hueys supporting the drug wars back in the 80s. Jim was a standup guy and leaves a 16 year old daugher Erin and lovely wife Ann.

I did not know Sarah but I know a few people who do and she was very well liked and respected as a pilot.

RIP Jim and Sarah.

[Hacker]

What are the Lear rules of thumb about aborting with a blown tire?

In the Eagle and Talon there is a much higher risk associated with a high speed abort with a blown tire than there is with a heavyweight takeoff with a blown tire. We use 100 knots as a decision point -- if it happens below 100 knots, we'll abort the takeoff and accept the risk of the abort with a blown tire. Above 100, we'll continue the takeoff (usually regardless of the damage done by the tire breakup, to include an engine fire or FODding out) and deal with a heavyweight landing instead.

Is there such a consideration with the Lear?

[MD]

Above 100, we'll continue the takeoff (usually regardless of the damage done by the tire breakup, to include an engine fire or FODding out) and deal with a heavyweight landing instead.

Same. I'd always wondered about that though regards the FOD or fire on a heavyweight T/O. Some summer days at HMN, the remaining engine would only take me to my ejection alt...maybe, plus unlike many UPT bases, our normal duty runway had 15,800 avail for T/O and abort (12.8 + 3k overrun).

Is there such a consideration with the Lear?

Don't know specific for the 60, but the earlier 23/24 and many of the 25 series Lears had drag chutes installed for aborts (or landings, I suppose...if needed).

[Guest Almost There]

Same. I'd always wondered about that though regards the FOD or fire on a heavyweight T/O. Some summer days at HMN, the remaining engine would only take me to my ejection alt...maybe, plus unlike many UPT bases, our normal duty runway had 15,800 avail for T/O and abort (12.8 + 3k overrun).

Don't know specific for the 60, but the earlier 23/24 and many of the 25 series Lears had drag chutes installed for aborts (or landings, I suppose...if needed).

I currently fly the Lear 60. It has the same wheel and brakes as the older Lears (20 and 30 series) but with much more weight riding on the things. No chute. Most 60 pilots will complain first about the brakes on the plane. This 60 was probably close to 23,000 lbs riding on little rims, tires, and brakes.... you blow one tire out of four and Bombardier reckons your stopping distance increases 50%. The squat switches on the wheels and their associated wiring are vulnerable to damage in a blowout, and this can put the anti-skid, autospoilers, and T/R's into "air mode." That leaves the pilots with limited braking (or full emergency braking with no anti-skid... can often lead to more blowouts).

It's not in the AFM or any written guidance I've seen, but in practice most 60 crews (and instructors) brief above 80 (or 90 depending on the operator) kts that we only abort for engine fire, failure, T/R deployment, or loss of directional control. Most IP's on the airplane talk about the wheel blowout as a "go" item over 80 or 90 knots. I've blown a tire on takeoff at over 100 and had to resist the intuitive urge to stop, but our takeoff and landing were much more uneventful with the decision to go.

It is a much better jet than it is a sports car.

I don't know what happened with this crash, but I'm not second-guessing the crew at all. I leave the investigation up to the pros. Just offering a little about the airplane.

I've read on a couple other forums that both pilots were great people. It's a shame. RIP to all four lost. Speedy recovery to the survivors.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Almost There

[Butters]

Years ago the FAA did a study on high speed aborts. Ask you safety office they should be able to find it. The findings from the study indicated that aborts initiated after 100 kts had a high probability of ending in a serious accident. This is where the no aborting for any malfunction that is not catastrophic (meaning the aircraft will not fly) after 100 kts techniques in many aircraft came from. It is extremely difficult to stop an aircraft close to refusal speed with damaged tires. Unfortunately, crews only have a split second to make an abort decision, then they have to accomplish the abort, and further hope nothing is wrong with the aircraft that will keep them from stopping.

[HuggyU2]

The older I get, the less likely I will ever abort a takeoff once I'm rolling at even a moderate speed. It seems nothing good ever comes from an abort.

The designers made aircraft good flyers,... not good aborters. I'll get airborne, figure it out, and land when I'm ready.

[Guest Yoda]

About the victims:

I just read an article yesterday that explained how they got out. The two who survived slid down the wing and jumped on top of each other and rolled around on the ground to put the fires out.

A witness reported "screaming" from one of the victims. Who he later found out was Travis Barker. The witness said Barker was screaming in obvious pain while sitting on the ground waiting for paramedics.

I CANNOT get that image out of my mind. That is pretty eerie. I also wonder how frightening and painful that would have been to be on fire and have to get out of the jet and slide down the wing to escape the burning aircraft.

I really am not looking forward to seeing photos of these two. I think it will be pretty bad. Only good news is that the physicians who treated them are quoted as saying they will make a "full recovery".