MC-12 Liberty info

[LL Windshear]

Was hoping to find good info in this thread...hoping.

There's a ton of good info in this thread, much of it grossly outdated. PM me your info if you want the latest, or have specific questions.

[M2]

There's a ton of good info in this thread, much of it grossly outdated. PM me your info if you want the latest, or have specific questions.

I hope you (and anyone else offering info) are only responding to .MIL or .GOV emails, and that you are encrypting the sensitive information you are passing to these people of which you have no clue as to who they are.

There is a reason there's not more information on this mission posted in this public forum. Go on SIPRNET if you want more, we've even got some good stuff on our BaseOps page there!

[LL Windshear]

No sensitive info is ever passed. I'm well versed in OPSEC. It's always good to rehack the "watch what you say on public forums" currency though...message received. BL, if you want basic info about the mission, I'd recommend www.google.com but if you are looking for training timelines, Beale info, QOL at the 489th or 427th, housing options, etc. feel free to PM me.

[Toro]

There's a ton of good info in this thread, much of it grossly outdated. PM me your info if you want the latest, or have specific questions.

I went back through this thread after I linked it to a noob who tried to start a new MC-12 thread and found a lot of obvious chaff, which I have cleared out. If anybody with current info wants to PM me with which posts (give me a post #) are outdated, I'll remove those too.

Other than that, steer clear of PMs on this (and most) topics. M2 hit on the OPSEC issue, the other is that there are other readers who might be interested in what you have to say - just put it in the thread.

[matmacwc]

Don't do barrel rolls, ever.

[Toro]

Current gouge sent to me by an MC-12 pilot:

-----------------

MC-12W's are stationed at Beale AFB, CA. I'm sure there are other threads that discuss the area, but suffice to say there is plenty to see and do. The cost of living is higher than most other places, but it's survivable. With San Fran and Tahoe close by, it's ideally situated for weekend excursions. Due to the housing market fallout, there are PLENTY of homes up for short sale or foreclosure. You can get a $600,000 home for $225,000 if you have the patience to wait.

There are TWO MC-12W squadrons at Beale. The 489 RS is the training squadron, which also is deployable when necessary. All students rolling through the "one and done" tour will be attached to the 489th for training. The second squadron, the 427 RS, is a deploy-only squadron. Most folks PCSing from other MWS's are assigned to the 427th. This includes the recent slew of UPT studs. This is just a rough estimate, but I'd guess the 427th is inprocessing 5-7 people a week. The intent is to take the squadron, which was activated this spring with a skeleton crew, and have it full-up within a year. They are well on track to do so. The days of "one and done" are rapidly coming to a close. In addition to the UPT studs, we are also bringing in folks from other MWS's to fill the slots. They bring the experience that is necessary to round out the squadron.

With all of that said, it should be clear by now that the Guard isn't taking over. There hasn't been ANY talk of that in months, but i still hear people mentioning the rumor. The Guard simply doesn't have the manpower or the resources to sustain the combat ops tempo we do. They did a great job building the program up from nothing, and sending folks downrange, but the active duty program is MUCH more robust. We graduate over 400 students a year.

The current dwell is 1/1. As the 427th grows, the dwell rate will become much more tolerable. New graduates go downrange for anywhere for 6-7 months. The flow-thru guys then return to home station, while the permanent guys return to Beale and begin a 3 on/3off cycle. It's brutal, but WILL get better as the manning improves. You can expect 600+ combat hours during your 6-7 month tour.

There's another rumor I've heard floating around that when Afghanistan winds down, the MC-12W will just disappear and the squadron will shut down. Again, that is false. Every COCOM has a standing request for MC-12W support. We simply can't get away from Afgh, right now. When/if this conflict winds down, there is plenty of other work to do. If we have a permissive environment, we'll be there...counterdrug, border patrol, you name it.

The MC-12W is not a dead-end career ender. FAR FROM IT. Like any other squadron, if you work hard you will be rewarded. Since I've been involved with the program, I've seen multiple folks get selected for school slots, general's aides, TPS, etc. DO's move on to command, CC's move on to Vice Wing, etc. Every UPT stud who got the MC-12 with a "insert MWS here" follow-on were much better aviators after his/her experience downrange. For permanent party folks, it's a standard 3 year tour. No MQ-9 shenanigans here...we won't tell you 3 years, and keep you for 6.

What other rumors have you heard floating out there? I'd like to squash them now while my ear is still to the ground.

----------------------

[B.L]

Great gouge above. To clarify for the 427th. You'll deploy 4 on 4 off for the foreseeable future. No mention of anything over 4 months. Only the flow through guys are going for 6 to 7 months.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!

BL

[DEVIL]

Where are dudes living out there? (nightlife, things to do etc for a single dude)

Edited September 23, 2012 by GoCanes7

[HuggyU2]

It depends what you like to do. Plenty of choices.

City, countryside, lakes, urban, rural. Take your choice.

[KState_Poke22]

Huggy pretty much said it all. It's a balance between length of commute, proximity to big city, and larger lot size. You just have to decide what matters to you

[kaputt]

Current gouge sent to me by an MC-12 pilot:

With all of that said, it should be clear by now that the Guard isn't taking over. There hasn't been ANY talk of that in months, but i still hear people mentioning the rumor. The Guard simply doesn't have the manpower or the resources to sustain the combat ops tempo we do. They did a great job building the program up from nothing, and sending folks downrange, but the active duty program is MUCH more robust. We graduate over 400 students a year.

Does anyone know if the 118th AS of the CT ANG Guard is still slated to change to MC-12s? The recent Guard Structure Changes stated that the C-27 squadron would not open, however a recent UPT Board posting by that unit in the Aviation Jobs section claims the opening is for a C-27.

I'm thinking of applying to this unit, and just trying to figure out exactly what the future is looking like in terms of the aircraft they will be operating.

[ziploc158]

Here's a queation. My DO sent out an e-mail saying that the C-130 community as a whole has to fill 5 MC-12 Slots 5 UAV slots. My commander has been talking up UAVs saying how they are the wave of the future. While this may be true, I myself would like to keep flying. My problem is I am a low time co-pilot averaging about 5 hours of flight time a month due to co-pilot over manning. My question is, how likely would a co-pilot with two years and on station and low hours to be pulled for something like this by AFPC; and should I volunteer for the MC-12 gig to attempt to keep myself in the cockpit. Or should I ride out the storm.

[WeatherManC130]

Here's a queation. My DO sent out an e-mail saying that the C-130 community as a whole has to fill 5 MC-12 Slots 5 UAV slots. My commander has been talking up UAVs saying how they are the wave of the future. While this may be true, I myself would like to keep flying. My problem is I am a low time co-pilot averaging about 5 hours of flight time a month due to co-pilot over manning. My question is, how likely would a co-pilot with two years and on station and low hours to be pulled for something like this by AFPC; and should I volunteer for the MC-12 gig to attempt to keep myself in the cockpit. Or should I ride out the storm.

The email I got since I am on this VML is that they will take volunteers with a minimum of 2 years on station. If the MC-12 is something you want to do, read the MC-12 thread or ask around base, then talk to your DO. There is a chance that you may never go back to the Herk. Having just got back from the Afghan land flying the C-130 I can tell you that the MC-12 guys fly their butt off. I have a few buds that have done the C-130 to MC-12 thing and some have enjoyed it and others have not. Send me a PM and I will give you their names.

[broncoflyer05]

I'm a Guard guy that has volunteered for the MC-12. Curious if anyone knew what kind of living arrangements we have downrange (2-5 to a room, showers and restroom a short walk). Last time I was at KAF with the C-27, we were in the mods south of the Niagra. Pilots from my unit are going to one location and the loads, now SOs, are going to another. Thanks.

[ak47]

Interesting AF Crimes article regarding future uses of the MC-12.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2012/11/air-force-mc12s-110712w

[contraildash]

Interesting AF Crimes article regarding future uses of the MC-12.

https://www.airforcet...e-mc12s-110712w

I may be wrong, buy I still get the impression that the whole "AF wants to transfer MC-12s to the ANG" stems from the response of Texas politicians when faced with losing their TXANG herks. "we'll take the MC-12s AND the C-130Js from Ramstein". Then everyone [insert ANG units about to lose airframes] jumped on that bandwagon. Being pretty far down the chain of 'need to know' it seems that all the talk I see out there is from politicians. Politicians wanted to give all the MC-12s to the Army. Politicians want MC-12s for their states that have no flying mission anymore. Ect ect.

Edited November 9, 2012 by contraildash

[HuggyU2]

I'm not the burning bush by any means on the MC-12, but Lt Gen Wyatt's comment on using the MC-12 as a platform to look at environmental/storm damage comes across as very uneducated. Or maybe it's just me.

"...it would be wonderful to be able to employ some manned ISR to take a look at infrastructure, flooding levels, and take a look at some of the situational awareness that our governors and the president need to see."

I have a feeling he doesn't know what the MC-12 mission and capes are.

MC-12 guys: am I way off base here?

Edited November 9, 2012 by Huggyu2

[busdriver]

Wait, ISR is more than Pred porn?

[LL Windshear]

MC-12 guys: am I way off base here?

No.

[LUGNUT]

Providing ISR porn to a bunch of Colonels and Generals is bad enough, imagine the pain of providing it to politicians and FEMA bureaurocrats.

[contraildash]

MC-12 guys: am I way off base here?

Not the least bit.

Providing ISR porn to a bunch of Colonels and Generals is bad enough, imagine the pain of providing it to politicians and FEMA bureaurocrats.

^this

[SurelySerious]

Wait, ISR is more than Pred porn?

It's a little known fact that ISR began in 1994 with the first flight of the predator.

Edited November 9, 2012 by SurelySerious

[KState_Poke22]

I'm not the burning bush by any means on the MC-12, but Lt Gen Wyatt's comment on using the MC-12 as a platform to look at environmental/storm damage comes across as very uneducated. Or maybe it's just me.

"...it would be wonderful to be able to employ some manned ISR to take a look at infrastructure, flooding levels, and take a look at some of the situational awareness that our governors and the president need to see."

I have a feeling he doesn't know what the MC-12 mission and capes are.

MC-12 guys: am I way off base here?

I guess the MC-12 could do that and do it well....it's just an underuse and mismanagement of something that would be better suited supporting the mission across the globe.

[Skank]

I think the comments made by Lt Gen Wyatt were forward thinking comments, hence he earned the rank of Lt Gen. The Air Force has touted the service as having a vision beyond our adversaries and sister services. Placing the MC-12W in a box and limiting the mission to ISR only does not constitute Air Force vision in any way, shape, or form. The more missions the aircraft can perform keeps the platform relevant and less likely to go away. Last time I checked, the Air Force was doing just fine before the first MC-12W squadron stood up in Iraq.

The honorable Ashton B. Carter, Deputy SECDEF, has stated the plane lacks what the AF needs for future conflicts. "With respect to the [assets] that we put together quickly, under the pressure of combat, and which have been so amazingly successful, they do pose a managerial issue for us after the war because they were not essentially designed to last; they don’t necessarily have all the features that we wanted in a force that will be an enduring part of the force,” Carter said at a May 30 event at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank in Washington."

If anyone paid close attention to Hurricane Katrina or Sandy an ISR aircraft could have played an important role during both catastrophes. I didn't hear anyone from C-130 units complaining when they had to airlift personnel and civilians in/out of Louisiana after Hurricane Katrina tore up the place. Flexibility is still the key to air power gentlemen.

I am waiting for someone to say Lt Gen Ashton and the Deputy SECDEF are wrong. They have vision and understand the intricacies behind flexibility being the key to air power.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Skank

[sputnik]

Thanks cadet