Getting jacked up on the flightline

[Guest Boom]

Anyone have stories about this? I've been part of two helping hands this week alone.

[Mambo]

Doing a FOD walk at Mt. Home, had a guy walking next to me that I didn't recognize...

Me: "Hey dude, where's your line badge?"

Dude: "Uh yeah, I don't have one yet, my shop told me to come out here and help with the FOD walk."

Me: "Ok, let's go."

Grabbed him and took him straight across the red line. Sky cops proceeded to put him face down on the snow covered concrete.

Mt. Home again, had a guy walking out to his plane over the red line...twice! Not like he couldn't see it and the ECP was only 25 feet away. Called it in and then proceeded to empty the truck of mx guys who surrounded him and dragged him off the line (he didn't have a line badge either, claimed he left it in his room). He ate concrete as well.

Saw two of our AWACS controllers get jacked up in Alaska for crossing the red line....we laughed pretty hard at that one.

[Stiffler]

Doing a FOD walk at Mt. Home, had a guy walking next to me that I didn't recognize...

Me: "Hey dude, where's your line badge?"

Dude: "Uh yeah, I don't have one yet, my shop told me to come out here and help with the FOD walk."

Me: "Ok, let's go."

Grabbed him and took him straight across the red line. Sky cops proceeded to put him face down on the snow covered concrete.

Mt. Home again, had a guy walking out to his plane over the red line...twice! Not like he couldn't see it and the ECP was only 25 feet away. Called it in and then proceeded to empty the truck of mx guys who surrounded him and dragged him off the line (he didn't have a line badge either, claimed he left it in his room). He ate concrete as well.

Saw two of our AWACS controllers get jacked up in Alaska for crossing the red line....we laughed pretty hard at that one.

You are bragging about this? The red line is gay....its just something to give SP's a job

[Mambo]

You are a friggin douche to brag about this. The red line is gay....and so are you. Never post a story like this again.

Sorry, next time someone breaks red I'll just sit there and play games on my cell phone.

This took place in the 80's at the tail end of the Cold War so we took flight line security pretty seriously...I believe you were probably still in diapers back then.

Stop drinking the Jack Daniel's Stiffler, it makes you angry!

[Boxhead]

You are bragging about this? The red line is gay....its just something to give SP's a job

Yeah, and your money is gay, it's just there to give FMO a job

Your Plane is gay...it's just there so you can feel good about yourself

Your MX tools are gay, they are just there for MX to have soemthing to turn

Wow.....

[SocialD]

Doing a FOD walk at Mt. Home, had a guy walking next to me that I didn't recognize...

Me: "Hey dude, where's your line badge?"

Dude: "Uh yeah, I don't have one yet, my shop told me to come out here and help with the FOD walk."

Me: "Ok, let's go."

Grabbed him and took him straight across the red line. Sky cops proceeded to put him face down on the snow covered concrete.

Mt. Home again, had a guy walking out to his plane over the red line...twice! Not like he couldn't see it and the ECP was only 25 feet away. Called it in and then proceeded to empty the truck of mx guys who surrounded him and dragged him off the line (he didn't have a line badge either, claimed he left it in his room). He ate concrete as well.

You pretty much saved the United States on that one, that guy was most likely a Russian spy!

I was at my base for a year and a half before I finally received my line badge, thanks to SF screwing up my paperwork . Missed out on two trips because of their F-up. I got questioned all the time when I first showed up, but most of them had enough sense to ask other guys in my shop before they took me to the SP shack. I can understand security being a big deal but use a little sense before feeding some poor kid to the wolves, lord knows an SP is just itched to jack someone up. He probably didn't know any better and was just listening to his flight chief who told him to get his a$$ out their for the fod walk. Again, I'm all for security but lighten up Francis!

[Guest Bender]

I don't get it...I still think the red line is gay.

It's labeled ECP...the "E" being for entry, right? So why do I have to go over there to exit again?

Besides...Why do I need a fuc_ing code for the gate, but I don't need one to walk through the ECP?

Why is walking through the ECP any different than walking through 5 feet away from the ECP?

Who's guarding the ECP? Integrity , I know...We cut manning so Integrity has to pull a double...got it.

Other than the ECP right in front of the fire station, Who the F_ck got to decide where these things were...F him.

Anyways...I hate the concept of the ECP. If I even felt like I actually needed my line badge...maybe it would make more sense.

BENDY

[Guest Caddis]

If the Air Force is serious about line badges as security tools, why are they not standerdized? Your line badge is not valid at any base other than your home unit. In theory you should not be allowed on any Air Force flight line until you have either a line badge from the controlling wing or an escort.

Yes I know most bases accept your home wings flight line badge. So what is to stop Johnny Jihad from forging a flight line ID from some base and showing up at another base to get on the flight line? Oh thats right the thin red line of the ECP

[Guest Bender]

Not even that...now that we have this thread.

JJ now knows to use the ECP with his forged LB.

Look...there is a reason the 9/11 HJ's took control of the plane after the engines were started.

I want to see the viddeo of someone taking off an F-16 that hasn't ever been in one before.

Well..perhaps something a video game could cure until the throttles got pushed up.

Damn that would be a funny video.

BENDY

[Herk Driver]

It's not necessarily about stealing an airplane. I don't have to steal the airplane to make you combat ineffective. There were multiple incidents during the Cold War of protesters trying to/actually getting close enough to B-52s to beat on them and the weapons loaded on them with hammers. Pretty stupid? Yes. Did an ECP stop it? No. And these were only protestors. The ECP is basically for flow control. If I see someone walking towards a jet anywhere besides the ECP, he can be assumed hostile. Makes it easy for relatively low number of people in the area to keep an eye on what they are doing and keep an eye out. Was it personally fun as an SP to put someone on the concrete? No. Too many questions to answer. Do the enlisted cops like to jack up officers? Who knows, but I can tell you that everytiem they do that an officer, usually the Flight CC or the Ops O gets called out and has to respond. I don't think too many of them are real keen on having to drop whatever it is they are doing or getting up in the middle of the night to have to respond.

Take a close look at your line badge one day. There is more to it than meets the untrained eye.

[Guest Bender]

Nope just stared at it for a few...don't see it.

If you wanted to control the area...an ECP is not the way to do it.

I understand your points and consider them valid. It doesn't change my mind though.

Hostile? Hmmm...

I'm a fan of flow control...especially at the bar.

I think this topic is silly. I also think Mambo is one Bad as$ mofo. But...he already knew that.

Oh, Mambo...I need you address so I can get your winnie the pooh book back to you...seriously.

BENDY

[Mambo]

You pretty much saved the United States on that one, that guy was most likely a Russian spy!

I was at my base for a year and a half before I finally received my line badge, thanks to SF screwing up my paperwork . Missed out on two trips because of their F-up. I got questioned all the time when I first showed up, but most of them had enough sense to ask other guys in my shop before they took me to the SP shack. I can understand security being a big deal but use a little sense before feeding some poor kid to the wolves, lord knows an SP is just itched to jack someone up. He probably didn't know any better and was just listening to his flight chief who told him to get his a$ out their for the fod walk. Again, I'm all for security but lighten up Francis!

Probably true, but I was just a young airman who was doing what I was told to do by my flight chief. Believe it or not that whole Russian spy / sabotage thing was perpetuated quite a bit back then. We actually did think we were saving the US...maybe that's what's missing in the AF these days, a bit of the TAC/SAC mentality. Being a bit older I do have a little different perspective on things. So would I do the same thing today? Eh, probably not...Boom wanted stories, I gave him one.

[Stiffler]

Mambo,

I edited my comment to get rid of the "douchbag" for a more PC response. So I apologize that you were johnny on the spot to respond to my post. Booze fueled responses usually get douchebag comments, but I realized that in a booze fueled stuper and simmered it down, cuz you are a good guy.

However, if you see how the navy does flight lines, I think it is more sane, and more worthy of adults. I see the red line as more of the same reflective-belt-enforcement-no-white-socks kind of mentality that permeates the AF.

And I WAS close to diapers in the 80's, but my 7+ years in the AF still allows me to have an opinion right?

[Mambo]

Mambo,

I edited my comment to get rid of the "douchbag" for a more PC response. So I apologize that you were johnny on the spot to respond to my post. Booze fueled responses usually get douchebag comments, but I realized that in a booze fueled stuper and simmered it down, cuz you are a good guy.

However, if you see how the navy does flight lines, I think it is more sane, and more worthy of adults. I see the red line as more of the same reflective-belt-enforcement-no-white-socks kind of mentality that permeates the AF.

And I WAS close to diapers in the 80's, but my 7+ years in the AF still allows me to have an opinion right?

No worries Stiffler, figured you had a good night out drinking.

I'm not familiar with how the Navy does their flightline security, but guessing it is a "if you aren't allowed out there don't go" kinda thing. That would work pretty good if we could get kids to follow that, but you and I both know the number of morons that would be out there cuz they wanted to see an airplane, walking behind running jets, ect. I think the Navy probably brings that Carrier mentality to their land bases.

You guys gotta remember that MX (my old career field) is pretty territorial when it comes to the planes and the flightline. We were tolerant of the cops being out there, but if someone was just out for a stroll...low SA on their part. Just the way we are brought up. This is actually one area I think we do need the red line kind of mentality, as HD said, there have been folks who have gone out and damaged our aircraft. But I agree with you on the disco belt-white sock thing.

[MD]

It's not necessarily about stealing an airplane. I don't have to steal the airplane to make you combat ineffective. There were multiple incidents during the Cold War of protesters trying to/actually getting close enough to B-52s to beat on them and the weapons loaded on them with hammers.

Kind of dating myself, but does anyone remember when the Matcheteros terrorist group blew up 8 out of 12 of Puerto Rico ANGs A-7Ds on the flightline at Muniz AB in January of 1981? They came in at night and tossed satchel charges down the intakes. I don't know if this started PRANGs downfall, but still.

I think the Navy probably brings that Carrier mentality to their land bases.

Very much so they do. Ever notice that even if there are no engines running on a Navy/Marine Corps flightline, that the ramp crew still have their mickey mouse ears in place simply because they're "on deck"? Check it out next time you're XC at an NAS/MCAS

[LJDRVR]

Simply a matter of history.

When I was an SP augmentee at a SAC base in the 80's, (M2 is gonna chime in here soon) it was taken very seriously. Of course this was a leftover from a culture designed by Curtis LeMay and others of his era.

My Wing CC at the time would, on occasion, walk around the flightline with his parka hood zipped up and no line badge displayed. God help you if you didn't jack him up - didn't matter whether you were a cop or not.

The only one I got to participate in was actually outside the area, some guy on his way home from work thought he'd take some pictures of the bombers on the flightline. This would have been no sweat had we not been in the middle of an exercise, with all the airframes containing Nukes. He didn't eat concrete, but there were firearms involved, shouting and he was detained, released to his supervisor with his camera sent to the base photo shop to have the film developed. Even SAC didn't expose your film in front of you - you got your other pictures back. Not sure if they payroll deducted the developing.

Hey! Might have been a way to get your pictures developed for free!

[MD]

Simply a matter of history.

When I was an SP augmentee at a SAC base in the 80's, (M2 is gonna chime in here soon) it was taken very seriously. Of course this was a leftover from a culture designed by Curtis LeMay and others of his era.

My Wing CC at the time would, on occasion, walk around the flightline with his parka hood zipped up and no line badge displayed. God help you if you didn't jack him up - didn't matter whether you were a cop or not.

The only one I got to participate in was actually outside the area, some guy on his way home from work thought he'd take some pictures of the bombers on the flightline. This would have been no sweat had we not been in the middle of an exercise, with all the airframes containing Nukes. He didn't eat concrete, but there were firearms involved, shouting and he was detained, released to his supervisor with his camera sent to the base photo shop to have the film developed. Even SAC didn't expose your film in front of you - you got your other pictures back. Not sure if they payroll deducted the developing.

Heck, at SAC bases (Wurtsmith comes to mind), even responding to a ground emergency as fire department, if you weren't met at the flightline-side ECP for the bomber alert pad, and escorted in to where the emergency was, we'd as Fire Dept get jacked up.

Hey! Might have been a way to get your pictures developed for free!

Better deal than taking it to the local Fotomat booth [/blast from '80s].

[amcflyboy]

I remember at PSAB that It didn't matter if you had a lne badge or not...you had to check in with the Flightline SP's with your name, and SSN, and your badge for inspection. You had to know what "tab" you were located in their book. You'd then do your FOD check on the tires, and proceeded. The othr thing too was that if you didn't have a badge, you wouldn't go out to the line, period.

Do they still do this at all the deployed locations? They sure as hell don't do this down at McMurdo, god forbid the penguins attacked! Even though there was a lot of anti-military mentality, people were pretty level headed down there. It was like Survivor...if you fvcked up, you were kicked off the island!!

[JarheadBoom]

Back in the other service, we had a guy (civilian) run the gate and ride his motorcycle onto the line and the RUNWAY at Willow Grove (this was waaay before 9/11). Every Navy cop on the base was following this guy in a low-speed chase for like 20 minutes. The Navy mechs ran off their ramp into their hangar when he started weaving around the P-3s... and we all lined up on our ramp with any large tools we could grab (pump/jack handles, 15" crescent wrenches, etc). He rode toward our line... saw a line of jarheads with large metal objects in-hand... turned onto the parallel and never came near our line again.

10 minutes and 3 failed MP box-in attempts later, he rode BACK OUT THE GATE and wasn't seen again.

[Guest Boom]

Helping Hand #1

I was doing my preflight (well, my "student" was since I'm in instructor upgrade) and the AC was getting a checkride. We had a some time before engine start so I noticed on our MAR's that we needed to do authentication with the Command Post. The IB I was flying with opened the COMSEC bag and broken open the documents we use and radioed the Command Post requesting authentication. They come back with what they have to say and we authenticate (or so we thought). They then said another set of characters and we authenticate again. The Command Post never responded. About five minutes later one of the pilots notices a cop car drive up and two cops get out with M-4's. I get out of the jet and walk over asking them what they wanted. They tell me they need everyone's ID card and line badge and to get out of the aircraft. Then one of the cops walks over to the crew chief and tells him to shut off the power cart. So I go back up and tell the EP who then freaks out. We all get down and comply with what the cops want. The cops then tell us to stand over at a certain area and they start radioing people. All of a sudden more cops show up and start asking us questions.

It turns out Command Post called a helping hand on us because we couldn't authenticate properly and they thought we were in "duress." So the EP, IB, and myself make statements and we get back to starting engines. We take off, do our missions, then come home. The Command Post radios us and tells us that we're to "report to the Command Post and meet with the Deputy OG upon landing." So we land, debrief the mission, then all head for the Command Post. We get there and they tells us why they did what they did. I asked them if this was a policy like, no shit, in a letter signed by someone and they said, "No, it's just how we're trained." They then tell us that they didn't know if it was real or not. I told them that for one they had a daily flying schedule or could get access to it and could figure out it wasn't for an exercise by the callsign (and they would know if we were exercising). For two if we're in some kind of no shit highjacking attempt the last thing in our minds is to open the COMSEC bag and ask for authentication. Especially since a few seconds after we screwed up the second time we asked them to contact our receiver's unit to make sure they were going to take off on scheduled timing. And finally we were doing this for training. What happened is the IB and myself ended up reading the chart wrong since we do it once a year (duh, it's for TRAINING, which was why we were doing it). So the compromise now is we have to call the Command Post from base ops before we step and state that we'll be doing training so they can "know."

[amcflyboy]

You've gotta be $hittin' me!! If I were one of thoe Navy Cops, I would have ran his ass over at the first chance I had Would have been worth going to jail over. Sounds like this dingbat was playing "press to test."

[Stiffler]

Boom,

Absolutely the craziest story with the gayest reaction I have ever heard. You know damn well that the Command post clerks knew you werent being hijacked, but it was their big opportunity to look "Johnny on the spot."

I would have gone ape. For anyone that knows authentication stuff, its absolutely ridiculous that they could come to the "hijacked" conclusion.

Thanks for sharing. I have even one more thing to be pissed about (including Monday blues...which my unit doesnt implement yet.)

[Guest Boom]

Helping Hand #2

My crew assumed Alpha Alert on Friday for the weekend. After turnover with the leaving crew we were out at the jet doing our daily preflight. We called Command Post and had them "Preannouce" us to SFS, Firefighter, etc. Pretty much letting them know we were going to the alert aircraft. So as we're doing our preflight MX had some issues they needed to fix and our quick preflight turned into two hours. Well MX had to service the GOX and needed one of the aircrew to stay at the jet. The AC tells the Copilot and myself that he'll stay and we can go to lunch. So the Co and I leave and go to lunch. We go back to the alert facility after lunch and I'm in my room watching tv. The facility manager knocks on my door and we have the following conversation:

Him - "Have you seen your AC?"

Me - "Last time I saw him he was still at the jet with MX. He probably went to lunch."

Him - "No, he's currently getting arrested by the cops."

Me - "Bullshit, you're ing with me because of what happened earlier this week."

Him - "Go out and look."

So him and I walk outside to see my AC being handcuffed at the jet and thrown in the back of a cop car. So as I'm in disbelief I call the Command Post and inform them what's happening. I then tell them I'm watching three cops board a cocked on aircraft (big no no) without any aircrew around. The Command Post controller informs me that she called the OG/CC and I told her to also call my Sq/CC. I watch the cops cars all leave and they end up taking my AC to jail and my Sq/CC was called to go bail him out. After my AC gets released the cops state the reason why they jacked him up is because when you are preannounced to an aircraft you have a two hour "window" to be at the jet. After that if you aren't preannounced again (which is stupid since you're already out there), they'll you up. They saw the AC walking around the jet after MX had just finished, so he was just doing a brief walkaround. And the two hour window had expired.

Now of course knowing cops they weren't able to provide the documentation or regulation saying this was a no shit policy (second time this week) and as of now I guess the OG/CC had an a "heated" debate with the MSG/CC since this is the second helping hand this week and this time it was on a higher headquarters alert of all things. It'll be interesting of what the outcome will be.

[Stiffler]

UFB. What if you would have had a Klaxon?

Im interested in the outcome of this one. Will shoes rule? or will sanity prevail. I have my guess. At least the Bears are winning

[Bergman]

Helping Hand #2

My crew assumed Alpha Alert on Friday for the weekend. After turnover with the leaving crew we were out at the jet doing our daily preflight. We called Command Post and had them "Preannouce" us to SFS, Firefighter, etc. Pretty much letting them know we were going to the alert aircraft. So as we're doing our preflight MX had some issues they needed to fix and our quick preflight turned into two hours. Well MX had to service the GOX and needed one of the aircrew to stay at the jet. The AC tells the Copilot and myself that he'll stay and we can go to lunch. So the Co and I leave and go to lunch. We go back to the alert facility after lunch and I'm in my room watching tv. The facility manager knocks on my door and we have the following conversation:

Him - "Have you seen your AC?"

Me - "Last time I saw him he was still at the jet with MX. He probably went to lunch."

Him - "No, he's currently getting arrested by the cops."

Me - "Bullshit, you're fucking with me because of what happened earlier this week."

Him - "Go out and look."

So him and I walk outside to see my AC being handcuffed at the jet and thrown in the back of a cop car. So as I'm in disbelief I call the Command Post and inform them what's happening. I then tell them I'm watching three cops board a cocked on aircraft (big no no) without any aircrew around. The Command Post controller informs me that she called the OG/CC and I told her to also call my Sq/CC. I watch the cops cars all leave and they end up taking my AC to jail and my Sq/CC was called to go bail him out. After my AC gets released the cops state the reason why they jacked him up is because when you are preannounced to an aircraft you have a two hour "window" to be at the jet. After that if you aren't preannounced again (which is stupid since you're already out there), they'll fuck you up. Now of course knowing cops they weren't able to provide the documentation or regulation saying this was a no shit policy (second time this week) and as of now I guess the OG/CC had an a "heated" debate with the MSG/CC since this is the second helping hand this week and this time it was on a higher headquarters alert of all things. It'll be interesting of what the outcome will be.

The sad thing about this is that while the skycops were all running around with hardons arresting a legitimate aircrew for some trumped up reason, you could have probably marched half a Russian brigade in the back gate due to the cops' diverted attention.

While I wholeheartedly believe we need aircraft and flightline security, in fact more than we have now, the current state of affairs is much like our current 'cyber security' requirements....doesn't really protect anything yet inhibits the actual mission worse than the supposed attackers would...thus essentially doing their job for them. UFB.