Return to Active Duty

[afnav]

There are a couple of ways to handle the manning problem.

- They will take every bomber guy out of ACC, and most ICBM guys out of AFSPC and send them to a new location. With the shortage of bomber guys out there, the ICBM guys will run the command with a bunch of civilians and contractors. In other words, it will become an Air Force version of STRAT, which has practically destroyed the bomber presence in LeMay's command. The former commander went so far as to put a carpet over the SAC emblem in the entryway. Fortunately, that error in judgment has been remedied by Chili.

- Same as above, except use bomber and ICBM guys that serve another function simultaneously. It will be similar to the skip-echelon structure that 8 AF and TF-204 and TF-294/AMC/TACC use now. They slide back and forth between a COCOM and Air Force entity depending on the particular task. Using this construct will reduce the need for a lot of personnel and constructing a new infrastructure at a new location, but it will inherit some of the same problems that the task forces have today: they have no real master and the chain of command can lead to misunderstandings.

The simple fact is that there are not enough rated personnel to fill the staff positions on record, much less the additional demand for a new MAJCOM. I've already been told I will be offered continuation past twenty, as most PODs will. Then they have this idea to bring a lot of retirees/separatists back. With the economy the way it currently is, it might work for awhile, but as soon as things start turning around, the house will collapse.

[TacAirCoug]

Wow, the concept of supply and demand is lost on some people. Why the hell would the Air Force bring you back on active duty to fill a billet (Pensacola T-6 IP) that they would have no problem filling with a less experienced guy who they can pay much less, and not worry about having to pay out a lifetime of retirement to? Why would they put you in Hawaii on staff when there are plenty of guys beating down the door to do that anyway?

I mean, it's funny because you really think you're that valuable. Maybe it's time for you to go take your medication.

Why the hell would the Air Force pay a few hundred pilots to leave and then turn around and beg them to come back two years later? The Air Force does a lot of things that don't pass the sniff test. Whether you agree with his approach or not, htcoles would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't seek the best deal he can get. Personally, I would do the same, but I would also realize that I should expect to get much less. I would also take whatever I was given, salute smartly, and do that job to the best of my ability. You guys are piling on htcoles when, if he gets what he's asking for, Big Blue is really to blame.

[Guest Safe&Clear]

Why the hell would the Air Force pay a few hundred pilots to leave and then turn around and beg them to come back two years later? The Air Force does a lot of things that don't pass the sniff test. Whether you agree with his approach or not, htcoles would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't seek the best deal he can get. Personally, I would do the same, but I would also realize that I should expect to get much less. I would also take whatever I was given, salute smartly, and do that job to the best of my ability. You guys are piling on htcoles when, if he gets what he's asking for, Big Blue is really to blame.

This is what I was getting at in the first place: it seems guys applying to get back in are, in many cases, holding their own cards. They can be "free agents" if you will, and only accept Big Blue's best orders. That sucks for the AD guys who are hoping for those orders, which is what I was getting at earlier.

I'm curious, however, if as this proceeds, we start to also see stories from the other side of the spectrum: dudes who're laid off (result of our supposedly catastrophic economy) with a buncha mouths to feed and/or wife-left-with-all-da-money cases where they are begging the AF to let em back in-- even to fly a Pred out of Creech.

Might Big Blue be hoping to get a bunch of applicants of the latter type? Probably. Are they going to get em? It'll be interesting to see.

[Coasta]

This is what I was getting at in the first place: it seems guys applying to get back in are, in many cases, holding their own cards. They can be "free agents" if you will,

You're exactly correct. I gave up $125k over 5 years just to hold all of the cards. Am I planning on coming back to be a T-6 IP in P-Cola? No. Would I look for the best possilbe deal for myself if Big Blue was begging for its pilots back? Absolutely. The EXACT same thing happens in professional sports. I've fullfilled my contract, now it's time to make the best decisions for #1.

[Guest htcoles]

You're exactly correct. I gave up $125k over 5 years just to hold all of the cards. Am I planning on coming back to be a T-6 IP in P-Cola? No. Would I look for the best possilbe deal for myself if Big Blue was begging for its pilots back? Absolutely. The EXACT same thing happens in professional sports. I've fullfilled my contract, now it's time to make the best decisions for #1.

I can appreciate Sandlapper's and Helodude's response to my original post....I did come off a bit harsh. Not quite as harsh as the response, but forums can create these type of exchanges between "team members". I have been in the Reserves 10 years and accumulated 8 years of AD time. I have had my fill of "needs of the AF" and now that they are allowing me to pick and choose, that is what I will do. If I am lucky enough to get what I want, I will perform that job with my best effort and "salute smartly". I find it hard to believe that anyone asked by AFPC to pick their next assignment would say "you pick, whatever the AF needs, I'm there". Not anyone that appreciates staying married or being a part of their kids lives. I took a leave from my airline because I love the AF mission and missed it, knew I had a job that would support my family in the AF, and saw folks below me with no other options and facing furlough. I control my chances for deployment now and I'm gonna do exactly that and hopefully there will still be an airline to go back to when I'm done.

Appreciate those who had my back on this subject, AD and Guard/Reserve alike.

PS. Shouldn't be a chance us being in the same squadron if you tell the AF to send you where ever the need is greatest. I admire your service regardless of where you might end up.

Edited February 16, 2009 by htcoles

[Guest htcoles]

I see where my logic broke down re: the Hawaii assignment. The posts after it make more sense -- send the committed guys to the shitty assignments, lure in the rest with the good ones. My mistake!

But for a PCola T-6 IP, it doesn't make sense to recall a guy back to active duty, pay them an O-4's or O-5's pay, which possibly rolls over to a lifetime retirement, when you could just as easily fill that billet with an O-3. Unless you put that hypothetical captain in a rated staff position to lure in the FGO. But whatever, trying to guess AFPC is harder than betting on roulette.

Don't get me wrong, I actually support your method of thinking htcoles, but my point was that it looks like you're holding a full house and you made it sound like you were holding a royal flush. You earned it -- milk the Air Force for all it's worth because if I were you, I'd do the exact same thing. Good luck on that beachside assignment, man.

Joe, in the end, the majority of us in this position won't take the risk. Once you get back on AD, you give up the power to choose your destiny. I think I have the power, I show up, and before I know it, I'm doing a 365 tour at the CAOC in the Deid. I've got a good deal in the Reserves. I'm exploring these options, but in the end, I have a known quantity and won't take the risk. I might not ever see the AD retirement, but less money and quality of life is gonna win out in the end. Yah, I've been deployed a bunch more than an AFRES guy should be, but in the end, it's nothing compared to what the AD guys put up with. I would put money on 10% of anyone considering this actually pulling the trigger. I wish the guys who do it luck and hope that it doesn't screw with assignments too much for the AD guys.

Take a look at the VRS site on the portal, there is plenty of work out there for us on a temporary basis. If you don't like the job, you can walk.

In the end, you are right, I have the full house and AFPC shows ME the flush. That is why I won't pull the trigger. As a Reservist, I actually DO have the Flush! I intend to keep it that way. Cheers!

[Spoo]

The return to active duty program is supposed to help "fix" the current rated shortage. With the initial lack of bodies going to staff (specifically the last assignment cycle), what is the word on the street for staff jobs?

Somebody may have already covered this, but the word around here (Airstaff) is that the only AD people getting Staff jobs are folks coming out of school (IDE). Staff assignments are also supposedly limited to 2 years now. This is all due to a shortage of operators. Of course, when my two years are up, they will probably say it's a 5 year staff tour...

Just for the record, I'm not doing this job as part of some butt-snorkeling quest to make rank. The AF sent me to DC to get my masters, which I consider a good deal, and we didn't feel like PCS'ing again. Luckily, I landed in one of the best offices in this damn building. We rarely do more than 30 minutes of real work on any given day. The stand-up conference table is about 10 feet from my desk...hence a lot of drunk posting on here.

All that being said, HUGGY GET ME OUT OF HERE!!!

Edited February 25, 2009 by Spoo

[Guest Hagar53]

I knew a few guys who applied, I do not believe they have heard anything yet.

I'm a recently retired tanker driver now working at a college aviation program. I have applied for the RRORP but have heard nothing except, "don't call us, we'll call you."

Two weeks ago, a friend of mine received an O-6 level AFPC brief in which the pilot manning levels were discussed. Apparently there is still a lot of uncertainty regarding how AFPC is going to fill all the pilot manning vacancies (and there are a lot!). The biggest uncertainty was surrounding the MC-12 billets, where the home base will be, how long will the deployments be, etcetera. So basically, none of us know what kind of assignments will be handed out because AFPC doesn't know.

Having said that, you can still read the writing on the wall. Based on the information presented to me, it seems obvious AFPC is looking to get RRORP applicants to take assignments in UAVs, trainers, U-28s and MC-12s. I doubt they will send anyone to a MWS and obviously if you get a U-28 or MC-12 there's a lot of TDY in your future.

[Guest Hagar53]

I've been retired for the last 8 1/2 months and working at a college aviation program in the northeast. The economy in this area is doing better than most because there are a lot of high tech jobs around here. Even so, times are hard. At the college, we have all taken pay cuts and made sacrifices to keep our jobs. Most people (especially the instructor pilots) are worried about being laid off. We know a lot of recent graduates and friends who have been furloughed by their airlines and we feel lucky to be employed even though the pay is pathetic.

I am seriously considering accepting an RRORP assignment for several reasons:

1) do the math: three more years of active duty increases my retired pay by 39%... that's huge

2) getting well paid to fly, even if it's in a sandbox, is friggin' great... and make no mistake the AF pays us well

3) tax free income while deployed

4) I'm a retired LtCol... I won't worry about OPRs or PRFs or the next assignment or kissing anybody's arse

5) flying a meaningful wartime mission like the MC-12's will have is very appealing

6) standing up a new flying operation (MC-12) while chaotic and filled with uncertainty is a unique opportunity and could be very rewarding... even after I leave EAD

Since I hold the cards, there will be no more staff tours for me and definitely no UAVs in my future.

Why aren't more people like me jumping all over it?

1) most of us are smart enough to know the economy will turn around in time, we just have to ride out these tough times

2) we know how tough it is to deploy

3) many don't miss all the standard BS one has to put up with on AD

4) most spouses don't like the idea at all

5) many of us have kids we want to see grow up

It's going to be a very difficult decision for me. I suspect AFPC will offer me an MC-12 or an AETC assignment, but then I'd be lying if I said anyone can accurately predict what AFPC will do... even someone from AFPC.

I would appreciate it if anyone has more current news (or good rumors) about the RRORP effort.

[Guest Hagar53]

Just got off the phone with AFPC Voluntary Officer Recall to Active Duty Section and was told the following:

- They are contacting qualified applicants by date of submittal (today they were working on submittals from 10 Feb)

- Applicants are contacted by phone to discuss assignments

- If a verbal agreement is reached, the submittal and assignment are sent to the bi-weekly Utilization Board (I might have the title wrong)

- If approved by the board, a letter of intent is then sent to the applicant who then has 14 days to accept the EAD assignment

It is encouraging to hear they will actually talk to me before throwing an assignment my way. My submittal was received on 11 Feb so I expect a call soon.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Hagar53

[Guest Hagar53]

My meat merchant at AFPC finally called today to discuss assignments. T-6 jobs were at the top of the list which was fine with me as that was my first choice of aircraft anyway. They don't have any openings in Florida with the Navy so I'm looking at either Vance, Laughlin or Columbus. He will forward my package to several panels for review, then if they approve I will get a letter to accept the assignment. He also said that filling trainer cockpits was the biggest gap they are trying to close with this program.

He was pretty frank with me about his viewpoints on the Voluntary Recall program. From his perspective, it is a very high visibility program right now and the brass would like to see things move along rapidly. They want people like me on the books to show the program is working as they had hoped/advertised. Unfortunately, the bureaucratic process isn't that fast. They're debating how to get recalled officers back into the system in the best way. This may mean I in-process and get my orders cut at the nearest AF base then PCS to my base of assignment (so I'm on the roster to show how terrific the program is), then go TDY to Randolph for PIT. That's largely speculation on my assignment officer's part.

Of interest, he said I was one of the younger applicants (I'm 44). A lot of the applicants have been out of the AF for 10 years or more which makes giving them a flying assignment more difficult/risky. I take this to mean they are wondering if a 50+ year old officer can still take the grind of being a line instructor in AETC. For most people, as you get over 40 more and more health issues begin to crop up.

I guess I'll be spending some time at T6driver.com studying up on the Texan II! ...and exercising more.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Hagar53

[nsplayr]

And the merry-go-round comes full circle once again...

Welcome Back!

More than 500 rated officers who left active duty want to accept an invitation from the Air Force to rejoin.

When the service rolled out the offer in January, officials figured 100 or so former officers would apply. So far, 526 former airmen have turned in paperwork to serve up to four years: 394 pilots, 111 navigators and 21 air battle managers.

“I am amazed,” said Lt. Col. Dewey DuHadway, who oversees rated force policy for the Air Staff.

The Air Force needs pilots, navigators and air battle managers to help fill about 1,600 vacant flying and staff positions.

Several factors led to the shortage, from a total force drawdown from 2005 to mid-2008 — lots of experienced officers left in those years — to unexpected demands for pilots. The most immediate reason is the growing need for pilots to fly remote-controlled aircraft such as the MQ-9 Reaper and small planes such as the MC-12. Those high-priority programs have pulled pilots away from staff tours, leaving rated positions unfilled. The MC-12 alone needs 300 pilots, a requirement that didn’t exist a year ago.

Former rated officers interested in the program must submit their paperwork to the Air Force Personnel Center at Randolph Air Force Base, Texas, by Dec. 31. Each applicant is then matched with an assignment officer who works with him to consider postings.

Many of the former rated officers haven’t kept track of new missions and don’t know the range of positions they qualify for, said Maj. Christopher “C.J.” Johnson, who leads the rated officer return program office and flies as an air battle manager.

“Some questions are very basic ... ‘What kind of job do you have for me?’” Johnson said of the many telephone calls and e-mails between the center and the officers trying to decide where they might fit in.

Assignment requests run the spectrum.

Some applicants leave it up to the Air Force to decide.

“We have a lot of people who are just eager to be back into the fight,” Johnson said.

Others have families and don’t want to move.

The program is open to retired or reserve-status rated officers who are 60 years old or younger, and left service as a lieutenant colonel or below.

Selection boards at the personnel center have the final say on applications, said Adriana Bazan, chief of the center’s voluntary return section. Sitting on the board is a colonel as the president and three colonels or lieutenant colonels, including at least one pilot.

The board reviews the applicant’s officer evaluations, flight records and other relevant information, Bazan said.

Two boards have met already and considered 16 applications, Bazan said. The Air Force made offers to all 16 applicants and 12 accepted. No dates have been set for when the officers will report for duty.

As the selection process gets up to speed, a board will meet weekly to consider 17 to 20 applications. Right now, it takes three to four months to process an application. The Air Force wants to trim the time to 65 to 90 days.

Officers who take flying positions get three-year contracts plus time for aircraft training, with the option to extend to four years if commanders agree.

Officers offered staff positions must commit to two years with the possibility of adding another two years with commanders’ approval.

During the contract, returned officers can be deployed, like the other active-duty airmen they serve with.

At the end of the contract, the rated officer is free to return to civilian life.

The officers are paid based on their rank and years of service. For example, a lieutenant colonel who retired at 20 years will start with the pay of a lieutenant colonel at 21 years. They are not eligible for the aviator continuation bonus but can receive flight pay.

Retired officers won’t get retirement pay while back on active status. However, their new active years of service will be used to recalculate and increase their retirement pay once they return to civilian life. They can’t compete for promotion, though.

Officers on reserve status will get retirement credit for the time they serve. They can compete for promotion as Reserve or Guard officers.

For complete details on the rated officers return program, visit the personnel center’s Web site at https://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil.

"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again"

[Guest Smoke_Jaguar4]

THREAD REVIVAL

Well, it's happened. If you know any retired rated guys who want to come back, here's their chance. From this morning's AFA Report:

We Could Sure Use You: Air Force Secretary Michael Donley has initiated two voluntary recall to active duty programs for retirees and Reservists and expanded the number of eligible Air Force specialties for a third program to help minimize the service's critical shortage of rated officers to operate unmanned aircraft and support other emerging missions in contingency operations worldwide. These programs are the Voluntary Retired Rated Officer Recall Program, Voluntary Limited Period Recall Program, and Voluntary Permanent Rated Officer Recall Program. Adriana Bazan, the chief of voluntary officer recall operations with Air Force Personnel Center at Randolph AFB, Tex., said there has been "a tremendous response" so far to these programs, with more than 500 rated officers selected for recall to active duty. Applications average 70 per month, she said. Rated officers include pilots, combat systems officers, and air battle managers. (Randolph report by Daniel Elkins)

AFPC Link:

https://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/main_content.asp?prods1=1&prods2=2&prods3=893&p_faqid=8753

[Guest Safe&Clear]

THREAD REVIVAL

Well, it's happened. If you know any retired rated guys who want to come back, here's their chance. From this morning's AFA Report:

We Could Sure Use You: Air Force Secretary Michael Donley has initiated two voluntary recall to active duty programs for retirees and Reservists and expanded the number of eligible Air Force specialties for a third program to help minimize the service's critical shortage of rated officers to operate unmanned aircraft and support other emerging missions in contingency operations worldwide. These programs are the Voluntary Retired Rated Officer Recall Program, Voluntary Limited Period Recall Program, and Voluntary Permanent Rated Officer Recall Program. Adriana Bazan, the chief of voluntary officer recall operations with Air Force Personnel Center at Randolph AFB, Tex., said there has been "a tremendous response" so far to these programs, with more than 500 rated officers selected for recall to active duty. Applications average 70 per month, she said. Rated officers include pilots, combat systems officers, and air battle managers. (Randolph report by Daniel Elkins)

AFPC Link:

https://ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil/main_content.asp?prods1=1&prods2=2&prods3=893&p_faqid=8753

Holy Sh!t, have any of you actually read the "memo" on that link? The paperwork required is so confusing I can't believe anybody would even try for this. It would take months to get it all together and probably YEARS in many cases for the AF to get it processed just to meet the reselection "board". Typical...

"Hey, Col Johnny, the 3-Star says we need to do this."

"Well, ok, we will, but we gotta cover our asses and make sure no hardened criminals somehow sneak back into the AF, so we'll put LOTS of caveats on it."

"Good job, Maj Dipshit, this makes us look like we're getting it done, but still ensures our own OPRs look good!"

Edited October 3, 2009 by Safe&Clear

[afnav]

If anyone is enough of a fool to volunteer for this program, I have a chair waiting for you at the Deid. You're an idiot if you think they are going to let you fly when they have a crap-ton of 365s to fill in shitty locations.

The powers-that-be want to convert the vast majority of billets at certain units from AEF rotational billets to 365s and PCS positions for 'continuity'. What they are too stupid to realize is that for every 365 billet that is filled, three or four guys get out or retire. They are perpetuating the manning problem in their drive to turn places like the Deid into CONUS-like bases. The senior NCOs are even spitting out insanity about making it an accompanied location in a few years. I would be inclined to say they are lying, but every dumbshit idea they have come up with has proven to be true (tucking in PT shirts, saluting in PTs, kicking out 365-ers to tents for weeks when their replacements show up, etc.).

If you're qualified to be eligible for this program, you can get a good job on the outside.

[Karl Hungus]

If anyone is enough of a fool to volunteer for this program, I have a chair waiting for you at the Deid. You're an idiot if you think they are going to let you fly when they have a crap-ton of 365s to fill in shitty locations.

The powers-that-be want to convert the vast majority of billets at certain units from AEF rotational billets to 365s and PCS positions for 'continuity'. What they are too stupid to realize is that for every 365 billet that is filled, three or four guys get out or retire. They are perpetuating the manning problem in their drive to turn places like the Deid into CONUS-like bases. The senior NCOs are even spitting out insanity about making it an accompanied location in a few years. I would be inclined to say they are lying, but every dumbshit idea they have come up with has proven to be true (tucking in PT shirts, saluting in PTs, kicking out 365-ers to tents for weeks when their replacements show up, etc.).

If you're qualified to be eligible for this program, you can get a good job on the outside.

Agreed. People would have to be pretty desperate and/or have other "baggage" to actually volunteer for this. In a similar vein, I always wondered why anyone in their right mind would move to Del Rio, TX to work as an LSI sim instructor. The pay can't be that great. Spend the waning years of your life in lovely Del Rio? Puke. Then it dawned on me... tons of the LSI guys were just ######ing creepy people who probably couldn't get hired in any other job/ location. Maybe there are a lot more of those types out there who would love to volunteer for something like this.

[HeloDude]

If anyone is enough of a fool to volunteer for this program, I have a chair waiting for you at the Deid. You're an idiot if you think they are going to let you fly when they have a crap-ton of 365s to fill in shitty locations.

The powers-that-be want to convert the vast majority of billets at certain units from AEF rotational billets to 365s and PCS positions for 'continuity'. What they are too stupid to realize is that for every 365 billet that is filled, three or four guys get out or retire. They are perpetuating the manning problem in their drive to turn places like the Deid into CONUS-like bases. The senior NCOs are even spitting out insanity about making it an accompanied location in a few years. I would be inclined to say they are lying, but every dumbshit idea they have come up with has proven to be true (tucking in PT shirts, saluting in PTs, kicking out 365-ers to tents for weeks when their replacements show up, etc.).

If you're qualified to be eligible for this program, you can get a good job on the outside.

I don't blame you for being disgruntled on a non-vol'd 365, missing the family and all, but come on!--the Died is cake! You get all the tax free stuff, combat pay, and hazard duty pay that you get in Iraq/Afghanistan but yet there are no combat operations directly taking place anywhere near there. Plus, you have hardened rooms with indoor plumbing, 3 beers a night, free wifi, a day off once in a while in which you can do downtown and shop/eat a real restaurant while wearing civilian clothes, etc. From everything I've seen and heard, the Died is going to be around for a bit, so why not make them all 1 year remotes? We do it in Korea, and some of those are even going to 2-3 year tours. It's a freaking joke when it takes your support folks 3-4 weeks just to learn how to do a job correctly and then 2-3 months later they leave and you have to start the whole process over again. There are such things in things in the Air Force called 'short tours' and I think the Died is a pretty chill place to get credit. I'm not directing all of this at you afnav, I know you're doing your part, but there are so many guys out there that seem to try and get out of every little thing. Guys need to know that volunteering for a 365 to the Died is wayyyy better than getting non-vol'd on a 365 to Iraq or Afghanistan.

On the recall program, hey, if they volunteer to come back, they 'volunteer' for anything--just like the rest of us. How bad do they need money?

[Toro]

If anyone is enough of a fool to volunteer for this program, I have a chair waiting for you at the Deid. You're an idiot if you think they are going to let you fly when they have a crap-ton of 365s to fill in shitty locations.

The Deid isn't the only place that we're short on rated officers. The staff jobs are critically manned for rated officers and we have a lot of these guys coming back in to help that shortage. Return to active duty to come live in Germany pulling a staff gig=not a bad deal.

[Red Fox]

Gentlemen,

I'm one of those ORFs who applied for the program (and was accepted). Yes, the paperwork was a headache. I submitted the application in early June and though accepted for the program, my orders are yet to be cut (should be hearing from the AFPC orders shop any day now, so I'm told) which is the final step.

The memo about the program states that applicants should be specific about their goals and I was. I don't know how it has been for others, but I essentially got the very job and location I requested (and it wasn't the Died).

I retired from the AF Reserves (with 17 years of active duty service) and used to tell my AF Reserve squadron mates that no amount of $$$ was worth spending the additional 3 years to get the active duty retirement, but time and economies change attitudes.

Advice to those who are faced with the decision to leave or stay in the AF (I left active duty after my bonus commitment expired at 14 years service). In my opinion, there is nothing in the civilian world that can match the camaraderie and job satisfaction one finds in a flying squadron. Find a reserve/guard unit to join. I did and found the camaraderie and job satisfaction were just as good if not better as the active duty (with less nit-noy). I love where we live (great place to raise a family, but tough place to find a job) and was naive enough to think I would be happy with any job (even Walmart greeter) as long as I could pay the bills and live here. I was wrong! I've had a couple of jobs that payed the bills, but royally S#CKed. A positive attitude can only last so long (for me its about a year), before the tedium becomes unbearable. I didn't want to be an airline pilot and never pursued the career. So, if your like me and are not going the airline route (or if they're not hiring), make sure you have something lined up that you will enjoy. For me, my AF Reserve squadron was not only a good paying second job, but also an escape from the civilian job. One more thought, I believe there is still plenty of $$$ available for Reservists to work extra, but don't plan on that always being the case. The money-well can dry up quickly and unexpectedly.

Red

[afnav]

I don't blame you for being disgruntled on a non-vol'd 365, missing the family and all, but come on!--the Died is cake! You get all the tax free stuff, combat pay, and hazard duty pay that you get in Iraq/Afghanistan but yet there are no combat operations directly taking place anywhere near there. Plus, you have hardened rooms with indoor plumbing, 3 beers a night, free wifi, a day off once in a while in which you can do downtown and shop/eat a real restaurant while wearing civilian clothes, etc. From everything I've seen and heard, the Died is going to be around for a bit, so why not make them all 1 year remotes? We do it in Korea, and some of those are even going to 2-3 year tours. It's a freaking joke when it takes your support folks 3-4 weeks just to learn how to do a job correctly and then 2-3 months later they leave and you have to start the whole process over again. There are such things in things in the Air Force called 'short tours' and I think the Died is a pretty chill place to get credit. I'm not directing all of this at you afnav, I know you're doing your part, but there are so many guys out there that seem to try and get out of every little thing. Guys need to know that volunteering for a 365 to the Died is wayyyy better than getting non-vol'd on a 365 to Iraq or Afghanistan.

On the recall program, hey, if they volunteer to come back, they 'volunteer' for anything--just like the rest of us. How bad do they need money?

I'll be the first to say that the Deid is fairly relaxed for a remote - if it was a remote for everyone. There are only a handful of PCS billets here. Significance? 15 days at home vs. 30. Big deal? Go overseas for a year and get back with me.

As far as the Deid being around for awhile, see the history of PSAB. They thought that place was going to be around a long time, too.

For the lag time to train personnel to do their jobs at the Deid, there is a solution. Send the right people with the right skill sets. They sent us a two-striper to fill a senior NCO billet. Needless to say, he sucked, and was sent off to watch TCNs. I got to do all of his admin taskings, in addition to my job. This is not an isolated problem here. It is very common.

Again, the BPC isn't bad, especially compared to the wonderful, IDF-magnet tent city that McCrystalization is building for everyone at KIA. My issue with the Deid is the drive to make it suck as much as possible. See the other two Deid threads for details. It isn't the minor ass pain the rules inflict. It's because they really don't need to make it suck. They want to make it suck.

Back to volunteering to return, if you really need the job, go for it. It does have an indirect effect on those of us still in, and it is rarely positive. After you sign the paper, don't be surprised if they break their word and send you to a shithole.

[JarheadBoom]

One more thought, I believe there is still plenty of $$$ available for Reservists to work extra, but don't plan on that always being the case. The money-well can dry up quickly and unexpectedly.

The battle for LTMPA in our WG was apparently epic this year, even though we are actively engaged in OEF/OIF/ONE support. Leadership literally found out the afternoon of 30Sep whether all the requested FY10 LTMPA orders would be approved/funded... and we still lost 3 LTMPA pilot slots for FY10 (also lost 1 FE slot, but the Booms were all approved [cha-ching!]).

[Bergman]

Gentlemen,

I'm one of those ORFs who applied for the program (and was accepted). Yes, the paperwork was a headache. I submitted the application in early June and though accepted for the program, my orders are yet to be cut (should be hearing from the AFPC orders shop any day now, so I'm told) which is the final step.

The memo about the program states that applicants should be specific about their goals and I was. I don't know how it has been for others, but I essentially got the very job and location I requested (and it wasn't the Died).

I retired from the AF Reserves (with 17 years of active duty service) and used to tell my AF Reserve squadron mates that no amount of $$$ was worth spending the additional 3 years to get the active duty retirement, but time and economies change attitudes.

Advice to those who are faced with the decision to leave or stay in the AF (I left active duty after my bonus commitment expired at 14 years service). In my opinion, there is nothing in the civilian world that can match the camaraderie and job satisfaction one finds in a flying squadron. Find a reserve/guard unit to join. I did and found the camaraderie and job satisfaction were just as good if not better as the active duty (with less nit-noy). I love where we live (great place to raise a family, but tough place to find a job) and was naive enough to think I would be happy with any job (even Walmart greeter) as long as I could pay the bills and live here. I was wrong! I've had a couple of jobs that payed the bills, but royally S#CKed. A positive attitude can only last so long (for me its about a year), before the tedium becomes unbearable. I didn't want to be an airline pilot and never pursued the career. So, if your like me and are not going the airline route (or if they're not hiring), make sure you have something lined up that you will enjoy. For me, my AF Reserve squadron was not only a good paying second job, but also an escape from the civilian job. One more thought, I believe there is still plenty of $$$ available for Reservists to work extra, but don't plan on that always being the case. The money-well can dry up quickly and unexpectedly.

Red

Preach on! My experience has been basically identical. I left AD 7 years ago to go to UPT with the Guard, and it's been a very eye-opening 5 years since UPT/MQT. I don't know if the struggles of life outside the AD are enough to send me running back to mama just yet (life is good at my ANG unit right now), but it's nice to have that option. Hell, I joked in 2002 that they were forcing me out to go to UPT (didn't approve my commissioned year of service waiver, yet got it via ANG) and that it'd only be a matter of time before I was back on AD, as if I'd never left. Is the 45 RS hiring? haha

Bottom line...life isn't always greener on the other (civilian) side of the fence. I've had two good civilian jobs, but the boredom and lack of comraderie/competence in the civilian workforce made them a huge drag.

[sputnik]

Again, the BPC isn't bad, especially compared to the wonderful, IDF-magnet tent city that McCrystalization is building for everyone at KIA. My issue with the Deid is the drive to make it suck as much as possible. See the other two Deid threads for details. It isn't the minor ass pain the rules inflict. It's because they really don't need to make it suck. They want to make it suck.

I'd take a 365 to virtually anywhere over the 'Deid. I agree with you, the suckiest part about that place is that it sucks for no reason.

You lost me completely on teh "McCrystalization." No idea what you're referring to, but I'm curious. Details?

[afnav]

I'd take a 365 to virtually anywhere over the 'Deid. I agree with you, the suckiest part about that place is that it sucks for no reason.

You lost me completely on teh "McCrystalization." No idea what you're referring to, but I'm curious. Details?

That was the term one of our Brits used for the 'let everyone in the world know our plan except the air component' philosophy that pervades Kabul. We had to read about the new strategy off the New York Times. They don't coordinate shit with us. Another thing is he is actively pissing off every Coalition partner. We heard about a fistfight between some dumbass grunt picking a fight with a German in the chow hall at HQ after the Kunduz strike. He jumps on camera blaming the Germans before the investigation had even begun.

The insulting tone he takes with ISAF is not helpful. Someone needs to realize he's not a one-man show.

[sputnik]

Interesting, hadn't heard that.

My ground time in OEF was a long time ago. Still I remember a few of us trying to figure out just what exactly ISAF stood for. So we asked our LNO, a RAF officer. "I Suck At Fighting" and "I Shoot At Friends" were the top two definations he could come up with.

Not trying to start a pissing match, I just thought it was funny. Still do.

I can see why ISAF might not like him, I hear he closed their bar.

I did spend some time in Kunduz with the Germans, great food (fresh bread daily!), nice bar. Going outside the wire aggressively--not so much.

Sorry for the thread drift.