C-130E PIQ DAFSC

[Swizzle]

So the traditional Co-"Pirate" has an 11M2B DAFSC...but now the LR Schoolhouse is saying that all MPD PIQ grads, whether C-130J or not, are 11M3B. My C-130 PIQ training report says DAFSC = 11M3B.

Anyone know of the reg covering this?

My MPF classifications section is clueless and my squadron believes PIQ grad's are still 11M2B. I've checked 11-2C-130V1, the PIQ C-130E syllabus, and the Officer Classifications pub w/o success. I need a reg reference to straighten this out.

Thx in advance,

Swizz

[slacker]

So the traditional Co-"Pirate" has an 11M2B DAFSC...but now the LR Schoolhouse is saying that all MPD PIQ grads, whether C-130J or not, are 11M3B. My C-130 PIQ training report says DAFSC = 11M3B.

Anyone know of the reg covering this?

My MPF classifications section is clueless and my squadron believes PIQ grad's are still 11M2B. I've checked 11-2C-130V1, the PIQ C-130E syllabus, and the Officer Classifications pub w/o success. I need a reg reference to straighten this out.

Thx in advance,

Swizz

You're an 11M2*

113M* is for Aircraft commander.

A Unit's UTC is built for both- it does make a difference. If they mobilized your UTC because your AFSC is an 113M*, you must be an aircraft commander.

The C-130J is 11M2C or 11M3C (the suffix C is for J mod).

PILOT UTILIZATION FIELD (11XX)

Introduction

The Pilot Utilization Field encompasses all functions performed by rated pilot officers to conduct or directly support flying operations, including combat, combat support, and training missions. Inherently included are supervisory and staff functions such as inspection, contingency planning, and policy formulation.

Specific instruction on use of certain AFSCs:

Identify pilots with 11XX specialties appropriate to the type of missions and weapon system involved. Use the following prefixes to identify additional rated qualifications and experience, and unit manpower document positions that require these capabilities:

B - Squadron Operations/Maintenance Officer.

C - Commander.

F - Aircraft Systems Flight Evaluation.

G - Automated Systems Program Designer.

H - Military Consultant to the Surgeon General.

K - Instructor for weapon system designated by AFSC.

L - Life Support.

M - Medical Service Specialist (Physiological Training Instructor).

P - Pilot Required.

Q - Standardization or Flight Examiner for weapon system designated by AFSC.

S - Safety.

T - Formal Training Instructor.

V - Automated Functional Applications Analyst.

W - Weapons and Tactics Instructor.

Y - Analytical Studies Officer.

Identify pilots serving as instructor pilots in undergraduate pilot training and formal training units (FTU) with a T prefix. Do not award a T prefix to instructor pilots in operational units. Prefix K identifies these instructors and authorizations.

Pilots assigned to duty as Aerospace Physiology Instructors, after completion of formal training, may be identified by prefix M. The Chief, Flight Medicine, Air Force Medical Operations Agency, validates positions and awards the AFSC.

Identify requirements for staff officers above wing level with a staff AFSC (11X4). Award individuals possessing a qualified AFSC (11X3) or a staff AFSC (11X4) upon assignment to a position so identified.

Qualification level 3 designates a pilot qualified as an aircraft commander in the assigned specialty or credit. Level 2 identifies qualification as a copilot, if appropriate, for a specific system. Level 1 identifies rated pilots at the entry level for their specialty.

Current aeronautical rating and qualification for aviation service according to AFI 11-402, Aviation and Parachutist Service, Aeronautical Ratings and Badges, are mandatory for award and retention of pilot AFSCs. See AFI 36-2101, Classifying Military Personnel (Officers and Airmen), for policy on retention or withdrawal of rated AFSCs for personnel disqualified from aviation service or placed in an inactive status.

Suffix Portion of AFS to Which Related

U...............................................................................

........ Air Liaison Officer (ALO)

V...............................................................................

........ Inter-Theater Airlift, General

W...............................................................................

....... Intra-Theater Airlift, General

Y...............................................................................

........ General

Z...............................................................................

........ Other

AFSC 11M4*, Staff

AFSC 11M3*, Aircraft Commander

AFSC 11M2*, Qualified Pilot/Copilot

AFSC 11M1*, Entry/Student

[Guest Boom]

Your DAFSC doesn't always have to correspond with what you are (though it should since that's what appears on your OPR/EPR). Your PAFSC (Primary) is what you no shit are skill level wise.

[Guest chaffman]

Your DAFSC doesn't always have to correspond with what you are (though it should since that's what appears on your OPR/EPR). Your PAFSC (Primary) is what you no shit are skill level wise.

Spoken like a former personnel weenie or orderly room dork, oh wait.....

[LockheedFix]

Your DAFSC doesn't always have to correspond with what you are (though it should since that's what appears on your OPR/EPR). Your PAFSC (Primary) is what you no shit are skill level wise.

How do I get my PAFSC to reflect my sweet bow staff skills?

[HerkDerka]

but now the LR Schoolhouse is saying that all MPD PIQ grads

Standard MPD rumor mill hooplah. The confusion on left seat pilot vs. aicraft commander has been ramapant since MPD started.

11M3B means you are an aircraft commander (which is determined by your SQ/CC). MPD produces left-seat qualified pilots, not ACs.

HD

[Guest Boom]

How do I get my PAFSC to reflect my sweet bow staff skills?

Once you have a source document (i.e. Form 8) have someone type up a AF Form 2096, have the Commander sign it, then take it to the Employment section of the MPF so they can update it in MilPDS.

[Swizzle]

Standard MPD rumor mill hooplah....

HD

So why does every CP coming from LR to RAB have 11M3B on their AF IMT 475 from C-130 PIQ?

[slacker]

So why does every CP coming from LR to RAB have 11M3B on their AF IMT 475 from C-130 PIQ?

because LR is crap. Most of the paperwork generated from that place sucks. I averaged one MFR for every 3 form 8s from LR. You think the school house would generate enough form 8s to know how, but you'd be wrong. The school house probably has no idea how freshly minted MPDs fit in a UTC. A/Cs only are 11M3*, everything else whether you call it a copilot, an MPD, or some new crap, is a 11M2*- end of story. It's the rule established by regulation.

[Guest Boom]

Spoken like a former personnel weenie or orderly room dork, oh wait.....

So why does every CP coming from LR to RAB have 11M3B on their AF IMT 475 from C-130 PIQ?

KC-135's also use the PIQ program and they are listed as Copilots. Think about it this way, will a PIQ ever carry the A-Code on FA's? Nope.

[Guest Bender]

Think about it this way, will a PIQ ever carry the A-Code on FA's? Nope.

Well, that's just not true. Most will eventually...although I understand what you're saying if you spelled out what the "I" stood for.

Other than that, carry on...nothing to see here.

BENDY

[Swizzle]

Slacker was correct. Thanks dude.

The answer came from the AF Officer Classification Directory on ask.afpc.randolph.af.mil

[Guest Hueypilot812]

because LR is crap. Most of the paperwork generated from that place sucks. I averaged one MFR for every 3 form 8s from LR. You think the school house would generate enough form 8s to know how, but you'd be wrong. The school house probably has no idea how freshly minted MPDs fit in a UTC. A/Cs only are 11M3*, everything else whether you call it a copilot, an MPD, or some new crap, is a 11M2*- end of story. It's the rule established by regulation.

The IMT 475 is generated by the TRS. It is written by the TRS flight commander, who has administrative control over the students. The 62d or the 48th are the ones that generate the IMT 4025s. I can look into it, but every PIQ student pilot I recommended or did a 3862 on was listed as an FP in both the gradebook, the IMT 4025 and the IMT 3862. We do not graduate any PIQ students as an MP. Even PCO/PRA/PXA syllabus students graduate as FPs, although they are recommended for an evaluation for the MP crew position.

The only person with the authority to upgrade a pilot from FP to MP is that individual's squadron commander. The action to change both the crew identifier from FP to MP, as well as change the AFSC from 11M2B to 11M3B is done AFTER the certification board. Little Rock doesn't do any of these functions. To change a crew member's qualification from FP to MP requires a form to fill out (can't remember the number from my training office days...but it's an ARMS form).

I don't know of anyone I fly with that is telling students they are going to be 11M3Bs or MPs. I think the whole "you'll graduate as an 11M3B and as an MP" comes from the contractors on the hill. Realize those guys haven't been in the Air Force on average of about 10-20 years, and thus don't have a really good working understanding of how these processes work anymore. All they know is they are graduating left-seat students, and since 30 years ago the only people who sat in the left seat were aircraft commanders, that must mean these students will be aircraft commander qualified. No one at the operational schoolhouse level (ie, active AF) thinks we graduate PIQ students as 11M3Bs or MPs.

By the way, I'm a schoolhouse IP (although I'm in the desert right now) and I know exactly how the UTCs work. The IP/EPs at LR didn't spend their whole careers in AETC. Everyone one of us came from an AMC/PACAF/USAFE squadron. I worked mobility and XP while at Dyess, so I'm fairly familiar with the UTC concept. If the paperwork is incorrect, then do the TRS a favor and call them out on it. We process a TON of 4025s/3862s/Form 8s/475s and there are bound to be errors. It's likely an oversight mistake, not because the schoolhouse IPs lack the understanding of crew positions and UTCs.

Edited October 22, 2008 by Hueypilot812

[HerkDerka]

I think the whole "you'll graduate as an 11M3B and as an MP" comes from the contractors on the hill. Realize those guys haven't been in the Air Force on average of about 10-20 years, and thus don't have a really good working understanding of how these processes work anymore.

That's exactly what I was referencing in my earlier post. These are the same guys who had the first few crops of MPDs absolutely convinced that they would be AC's when they graduated.

HD

[Swizzle]

... If the paperwork is incorrect, then do the TRS a favor and call them out on it. We process a TON of 4025s/3862s/Form 8s/475s and there are bound to be errors. It's likely an oversight mistake, not because the schoolhouse IPs lack the understanding of crew positions and UTCs.

Did that yesterday by sending them the reg references. Hopefully I wasn't too blunt with my you-screwed-up and I'm an Lt pointing this out email.