WTF? (**NSFW**)

[Biff_T]

12 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Word on the street is the commandant of SOS has outlawed pen tab patches, name tags with call signs and last name on them, and not zipping leg pockets (where one would place their cover) when outside. Dudes have already received paperwork for "offenses" and are buying extra covers for their pockets when walking outside. DAFUQ indeed.

Is this person a Nav?  

They have been pulling the anti flier shit at SOS since @HuggyU2 was a young Captain. 

Me personally, I barey remember SOS as I was drunk most of the time.  

[jrizzell]

Is this person a Nav?  
They have been pulling the anti flier shit at SOS since [mention=2076]HuggyU2[/mention] was a young Captain. 
Me personally, I barey remember SOS as I was drunk most of the time.  

Why the Nav hate; this is obviously an ABM ;)


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[BashiChuni]

"four more years. pause"

this fucking guy

"are you ready to choose freedom over democracy!!!"

Edited April 26 by BashiChuni

[BashiChuni]

Official WH. They corrected it after being mocked on twitter. 

[wikz]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

"four more years. pause"

this ing guy

"are you ready to choose freedom over democracy!!!"

 

[Boomer6]

5 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Is this person a Nav?  

They have been pulling the anti flier shit at SOS since @HuggyU2 was a young Captain. 

Me personally, I barey remember SOS as I was drunk most of the time.  

The 3 bobs on the command team are pilots, according to the SOS website.

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, Boomer6 said:

The 3 bobs on the command team are pilots, according to the SOS website.

JFC

[brabus]

48 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

JFC

It’s not surprising, each of their communities did what anyone would do - expel the garbage to somewhere else ASAP. And smartly they sent them to AU where they can have the least impact. Related note, I’m still undecided who’s the most useless - AU or the ATF.

Edited April 27 by brabus

[Smokin]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

It’s not surprising, each of their communities did what anyone would do - expel the garbage to somewhere else ASAP. And smartly they sent them to AU where they can have the least impact. Related note, I’m still undecided who’s the most useless - AU or the ATF.

How about a win-win and just abolish both?  Obviously that would also entail firing everyone that currently works for both organizations with a life-long ban of those individuals ever working for the federal government again.  The country would be a better place. 

Send the Capts to a spring break destination of their choice for the entire month of March and watch retention skyrocket and have zero loss of learning.

[brabus]

That’s the best idea I’ve heard in years!

[HuggyU2]

16 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

The 3 bobs on the command team are pilots, according to the SOS website.

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/SOS/documents/Bios Leadership/Col_Kevin_Lee_Bio.pdf

Edited April 27 by HuggyU2

[Biff_T]

13 hours ago, Smokin said:

Send the Capts to a spring break destination of their choice for the entire month of March and watch retention skyrocket and have zero loss of learning.

This. 

We pretty much did this anyways.  A lot of beach runs.   I drank gallons of margaritas. 

6 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/SOS/documents/Bios Leadership/Col_Kevin_Lee_Bio.pdf

I thought all herk dudes were cool.  I used to always see them with baseball caps on and huge dips in their mouths.  This guy doesn't like morale patches and callsigns?   Nerd. 

[disgruntledemployee]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:09 PM, brabus said:

Words.....

Related note, I’m still undecided who’s the most useless - AU or the ATF.

The ATF can do a no knock warrant without body cams or notifying local LEO, startle the homeowner, who might be thinking he's being home invaded, then shoot him in the head.  See story of Little Rock Airport Manager.  They probably could have served their warrant at the airport where he worked and not be carrying, you know, an easy, peaceful encounter.

AU can torture and rot your brain over a series of months of bullshit.

[DirkDiggler]

On 4/25/2024 at 10:24 PM, Boomer6 said:

Word on the street is the commandant of SOS has outlawed pen tab patches, name tags with call signs and last name on them, and not zipping leg pockets (where one would place their cover) when outside. Dudes have already received paperwork for "offenses" and are buying extra covers for their pockets when walking outside. DAFUQ indeed.

Ole Buddy Lee isn’t someone you should casually trust/turn your back on.  He’s one of Dag Andersen’s boys. 
  On a side note, he went to the MC-W program right as it as standing up.  AFSOC really fucked up the rollout of that; most communities in AFSOC used that as an opportunity to get rid of individuals they didn’t want in their respective communities (not all, there were some real good dudes that got sent as well).  Don’t know if that was the case with Lee, but he was bounced between a lot of different communities, which is odd.

  Edit to add, he’s also at least DOS adjacent, he went to IDE out of the 27 SOW when Slife was the Grp/CC out there, if that helps paint the fuller picture.

Edited April 28 by DirkDiggler
Additional info

[fire4effect]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:25 PM, brabus said:

Awards/medals are embarrassing compared to the days of old. Even bronze stars and to some extent, DFCs, are handed out for simple baseline-doing-your-job. Everyone gets a trophy for just breathing and doing average shit. Ridiculous. 

Funny as I get older, I've decided my best award was coming home with everything still attached. I tell people to read between the lines in a lot of higher awards citations. You can usually tell that at least one and sometimes more individuals really screwed up to put any person in a position to earn it in the first place. Do your job right and you get out without anyone knowing who you are and I'm perfectly ok with that. Certainly, you don't get a screenplay written about you.

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

Ole Buddy Lee isn’t someone you should casually trust/turn your back on.  He’s one of Dag Andersen’s boys. 

Encountered him at Ramstein while he was on staff.  Immediate impression was that he's a back-stabbing douchebag turd snorkler.

[Day Man]

is there some reason they call out the 6,200' airstrip? seems...desperate

[fire4effect]

20 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

The ATF can do a no knock warrant without body cams or notifying local LEO, startle the homeowner, who might be thinking he's being home invaded, then shoot him in the head.  See story of Little Rock Airport Manager.  They probably could have served their warrant at the airport where he worked and not be carrying, you know, an easy, peaceful encounter.

AU can torture and rot your brain over a series of months of bullshit.

Absolutely there were a dozen better ways this could have been handled. They had him under surveillance including with a GPS tracker on his car so they had no problem doing a traffic stop or his office. This is a decent report that mentions how the agents violated ATF policy and didn't wear body cameras AND put tape over his ring doorbell camera. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj5hPClt-eFAxVW38kDHckADk0QwqsBegQICBAG&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dfu4ifmzq7SI&usg=AOvVaw23t20RA6rsQ0vYD0r_A22m&opi=89978449

[Lawman]

Frankly, I'm glad to see it.  The USAF and USSF need to think joint from day one. Attending other service tactical and leadership schools is a great way to ingrain that joint understanding.  Hell, I wish we sent a good slice of USAF JAIs and all AMLOs to Pathfinder, even if they fail out.

There is a huge push in Army aviation to start sending more people to WTI and the weapons course just because we understand the deficiency in the sort of institutional knowledge stovepiped of training. The debrief/AAR process at the weapons course alone was eye opening to the senior leaders we had sit through it.

Broad perspective of experience is critical from us slipping back to a pre joint military which I would largely say looking at our procurement strategies we are already doing.


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[brabus]

21 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

The ATF can do a no knock warrant without body cams or notifying local LEO, startle the homeowner, who might be thinking he's being home invaded, then shoot him in the head.  See story of Little Rock Airport Manager.  They probably could have served their warrant at the airport where he worked and not be carrying, you know, an easy, peaceful encounter.

AU can torture and rot your brain over a series of months of bullshit.

I’m not sure what the best fix is, but this kind of shit has happened way too much in the past several years. I almost certainly would be a victim of it if they fucked up and got the wrong house. I understand allowing no knocks (easy to say you’re against them until you’re an LEO at the door), but perhaps they should only be allowed for extremely dangerous situations (e.g. not just one guy), and if you’re complicit in selecting the wrong house/someone innocent gets killed, you get charged with murder and spend the rest of your life in prison…that’ll at least better incentivize not fucking that up.

 

[fire4effect]

56 minutes ago, brabus said:

I’m not sure what the best fix is, but this kind of shit has happened way too much in the past several years. I almost certainly would be a victim of it if they fucked up and got the wrong house. I understand allowing no knocks (easy to say you’re against them until you’re an LEO at the door), but perhaps they should only be allowed for extremely dangerous situations (e.g. not just one guy), and if you’re complicit in selecting the wrong house/someone innocent gets killed, you get charged with murder and spend the rest of your life in prison…that’ll at least better incentivize not fucking that up.

 

Unfortunately, with qualified immunity that's next to impossible. Especially with Federal officers. Hell, I bet they often times come from out of state and good luck even finding them with DOJ running interference. Fact is if you do happen get "lucky" and take one of them out you get life at a minimum and you're guilty until proven innocent. No matter how bad the cops screw up it's your fault.

This happened with local cops in Wisconsin, and I suspect this guy happened to live in a bad neighborhood and had a small amount of MJ and fired at the door when they were breaking the door down. Was this guy citizen of the year? No. Did they yell police? Probably. Did he hear that in the chaos? Maybe. Do bad guys ever yell police? Yes. I wouldn't be surprised once a cop was killed, they emptied out an evidence locker and piled it in his house to make the raid justifiable.

No knock raids should be used in in ONLY very limited situations. Just too many things can go wrong.

Jordan Fricke sentenced to life in prison for shooting and killing MPD Officer Matthew Rittner (cbs58.com)

[Lawman]

Unfortunately, with qualified immunity that's next to impossible. Especially with Federal officers. Hell, I bet they often times come from out of state and good luck even finding them with DOJ running interference. Fact is if you do happen get "lucky" and take one of them out you get life at a minimum and you're guilty until proven innocent. No matter how bad the cops screw up it's your fault.
This happened with local cops in Wisconsin, and I suspect this guy happened to live in a bad neighborhood and had a small amount of MJ and fired at the door when they were breaking the door down. Was this guy citizen of the year? No. Did they yell police? Probably. Did he hear that in the chaos? Maybe. Do bad guys ever yell police? Yes. I wouldn't be surprised once a cop was killed, they emptied out an evidence locker and piled it in his house to make the raid justifiable.
No knock raids should be used in in ONLY very limited situations. Just too many things can go wrong.
Jordan Fricke sentenced to life in prison for shooting and killing MPD Officer Matthew Rittner (cbs58.com)

The ATFs actions in an enforcement capacity should be removed or severely curtailed.

Look we don’t have Treasury agents doing Elliot Ness bootlegger raids anymore, we don’t have other agency groups with their own group of local Joe door kickers taking down guys doing illicit internet stuff. IRS doesn’t conduct raids, they accompany them.

The ATF should have its nuts removed and outsource that action to local and federal law enforcement which hasn’t shown its self to be collectively up its own ass. There is no reason the FBI field offices and local departments couldn’t fill that capacity and it would foster better inter agency cooperation. They can still be armed in the normal accomplishment of their duties, same way the crime scene guys all are, but it’s for an understand of protection or exigent circumstances not to go conducting raids because they want to moonlight as SWAT.


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[Smokin]

The only logical conclusion that one can come to is the agents were looking for a fight.  If you think a dude is a gun runner, do you attack him in the place that he would have the most guns?  A six year old could see the obvious absurdity.  Or do you go get him in a place where at the absolute most he has a pistol hidden? 

I am not against qualified immunity, but maybe it does need some reform when a police state can violate every shred of common sense and seemingly intentionally escalate a situation to the point that any reasonable person would consider their lives in danger and take self defense actions.  If I hear someone trying to kick my door in late at night and yelling 'Police', I'm not going to believe them and I'm going to defend my home.  If I hear someone nicely knocking on my door, look outside, see multiple cop cars with their lights on and police in uniform, I will know that I'm not being attacked by a violent gang and I'll put my gun away before I open the door.

These ATF agents and the leadership that approved the raid need to be held accountable.  They killed a US citizen in his home when he almost certainly thought he was under attack by a band of lawless criminals, which isn't actually that far from the truth.

[fire4effect]

4 hours ago, Smokin said:

The only logical conclusion that one can come to is the agents were looking for a fight.  If you think a dude is a gun runner, do you attack him in the place that he would have the most guns?  A six year old could see the obvious absurdity.  Or do you go get him in a place where at the absolute most he has a pistol hidden? 

I am not against qualified immunity, but maybe it does need some reform when a police state can violate every shred of common sense and seemingly intentionally escalate a situation to the point that any reasonable person would consider their lives in danger and take self defense actions.  If I hear someone trying to kick my door in late at night and yelling 'Police', I'm not going to believe them and I'm going to defend my home.  If I hear someone nicely knocking on my door, look outside, see multiple cop cars with their lights on and police in uniform, I will know that I'm not being attacked by a violent gang and I'll put my gun away before I open the door.

These ATF agents and the leadership that approved the raid need to be held accountable.  They killed a US citizen in his home when he almost certainly thought he was under attack by a band of lawless criminals, which isn't actually that far from the truth.

Best way to hold federal agents accountable is by Congress cutting their budget. The courts just aren't effective on this and frankly will never themselves be accountable to the people. Stop giving them a paycheck will get their attention, I'm sure. Effects Based Targeting

[Biff_T]

On 4/28/2024 at 10:05 AM, fire4effect said:

Do your job right and you get out without anyone knowing who you are and I'm perfectly ok with that

This