The National Anthem

[Guest Linda]

NOTE: Search performed on the topic - Nothing Found - Please attach this to another rant or something if I somehow missed it, please.

Am I alone in my frustration and down-right ANGER regarding people that don't stand up, nor place their hands over their heart while the National Anthem is played / sung at sporting events (or other locations, for that mattter)!? Look, I'm no old-head... I'm a young buck Captain that's only been wearing our nation's uniform for 9 years... but this is something that's bothered me since I was a ROTC Cadidiot.

I had the privilege to serve on the Color Guard and present The Colors at many sporting events. I was amazed, shocked, and in awe at the number of athletes and spectators that simply don't understand what to do in respect to our nation and the flag that represents us all!

Information Provided by USFlag.org

The Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem

When the national anthem is played or sung, citizens should stand at attention and salute at the first note and hold the salute through the last note. The salute is directed to the flag, if displayed, otherwise to the music.

Well, that's great, Linda... but what exactly is "A Salute" if I'm a civilian?

Information Provided by USFlag.org

The Salute

To salute, all persons come to attention. Those in uniform give the appropriate formal salute. Citizens not in uniform salute by placing their right hand over the heart and men with head cover should remove it and hold it to left shoulder, hand over the heart.

Well, what if I'm just wearin' civvies, man? Lord knows I've been wearing the uniform for many years. Guess what!? There's a new law that affects you... and the rest of us!

Information Provided by the USAF - https://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123121980

New law allows salutes in civvies during anthem

10/31/2008 - WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Veterans and servicemembers not in uniform can now render the military-style hand salute during the playing of the national anthem, thanks to changes in federal law that took effect in October.

"The military salute is a unique gesture of respect that marks those who have served in our nation's armed forces," said Dr. James B. Peake, secretary of Veterans Affairs. "This provision allows the application of that honor in all events involving our nation's flag."

The new provision improves upon a little known change in federal law last year that authorized veterans to render the military-style hand salute during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, but it did not address salutes during the national anthem. Last year's provision also applied to servicemembers while not in uniform.

Traditionally, members of the nation's veterans service organizations have rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag while wearing their organization's official head-gear.

The most recent change, authorizing hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel, was sponsored by Sen. Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, an Army veteran. It was included in the Defense Authorization Act of 2009, which President Bush signed Oct. 14.

The earlier provision authorizing hand-salutes for veterans and out-of-uniform servicemembers during the raising, lowering or passing of the flag, was contained in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, which took effect Jan. 28, 2008. (Courtesy of VA News)

[donkey]

Unfortunately, I've seen a lot more of this then I would like to. Usually most people stand up and salute (cover their hearts) but there's always the group of college students (I'm still in college) who continue to wear their hat and tune out the National Anthem while they talk to each other and joke around... granted it's not just limited to college students. It's disheartening to say the least.

And on a side note, this post reminded me of this picture.

[Guest Nova]

When it comes to the National Anthem and our flag being displayed, I believe many Americans want to do the right thing but aren't exactly sure what that is because they've never been taught. This is a topic with few references and many misconceptions and "best guesses" circulating. Here is the official protocol (from AFI 34-1201) for rendering proper courtesy during the National Anthem:

2.17. National Anthem. Title 36, United States Code, Section 301 provides guidance on conduct during

the playing of the National Anthem.

2.17.1. Outdoors. When the flag is displayed, all present except those in formation, should stand at

attention facing the flag with their right hand over their heart. Those not in uniform should remove

their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over

the heart. Individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the National

Anthem and maintain that position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, all present

should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

20 AFI34-1201 4 OCTOBER 2006

2.17.2. Indoors. Military members in uniform, while in formations, should wear appropriate headgear

and render the military salute at the first note of the National Anthem and maintain that position until

the last note. While not wearing headgear during an indoor ceremony, military members, in formation

or not, should stand at attention at the first note of the National Anthem and maintain that position

until the last note without rendering the military salute. There is one exception to this. Military mem-

bers in uniform, under arms, should salute. Civilians should stand at attention facing the flag with

their right hand over their heart.

but the photo above does piss me off

Edited October 31, 2008 by Nova

[B*D*A]

When it comes to the National Anthem and our flag being displayed, I believe many Americans want to do the right thing but aren't exactly sure what that is because they've never been taught. This is a topic with few references and many misconceptions and "best guesses" circulating. Here is the official protocol (from AFI 34-1201) for rendering proper courtesy during the National Anthem:

I agree, shouldn't we be doing this basic education in grade school like a "citizenship" course or something? I remember saying the pledge every morning until third grade when we stopped becaue I shlt you not, my teacher "didn't believe in it," I still remember that.

[The Kayla]

Athletes are the worst, I think. I'm not just talking about Football or Basketball players either.

When we were watching the Olympics, there were a few standing there talking/joking around while the National Anthem was being played.

[Toro]

When it comes to the National Anthem and our flag being displayed, I believe many Americans want to do the right thing but aren't exactly sure what that is because they've never been taught.

Spot on. If I had not entered the military, I probably wouldn't know. I think one solution is that instead of simply saying, "Please rise for the singing of the National Anthem", the announcer should specify, "Please stand, remove your hats, and cover your heart in honor of the American Flag and National Anthem."

Additionally, try to educate guys when you see them sitting or with their hats on. The trick there is how to come off as trying to be helpful rather than a prick.

Athletes are the wrost, I think. I'm not just talking about Football or Basketball players either.

Yup. I call foul on the sports leagues for not providing National Anthem academics to their players.

[nsplayr]

https://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=1609

As of yesterday, all veterans and active military members can render a salute to the flag and during the playing of the national anthem while in civies.

USA

Edited November 1, 2008 by nsplayr

[Guest homewith4]

Is the power point presentation someone from here made over a year ago still available? This topic reminded me of it, I'd like my teenagers to see it.

[Guest JorryFright21]

Ditto, I believe it was Rotorhead who made it. Do you still have it available?

[M2]

Even if it were taught in schools, unfortunately I still believe a majority of Americans are too lazy or apathetic to pay respect to the symbols of our nation. If you want my feelings on this, just go back to the Josh Howard thread I started when that fuckstick was running his mouth during the playing of our national anthem.

Even with the new law, I feel odd saluting in civilian clothes; so I stick with what I know best...stand at attention with my hand over my heart. However, I have been tempted to slap the living shit out of people when I see them jawing aroiund or playing grabass during the national anthem. The main problem is that the freedoms that the citizens of this great country enjoy come too easy for the vast majority of them. Those of us who have supported and defended them, and who actually lose some of those same freedoms while doing so, understand how important they really are; and how to respect the symbols of those freedoms.

On a side note, it is always good to see our old pal Linda posting! Hope all is well, my friend!

Cheers! M2

[The Kayla]

M2, you said it best.

[HerkDerka]

I think one solution is that instead of simply saying, "Please rise for the singing of the National Anthem", the announcer should specify, "Please stand, remove your hats, and cover your heart in honor of the American Flag and National Anthem."

Additionally, try to educate guys when you see them sitting or with their hats on.

2

HD

[JeepGuyC17]

When it comes to the National Anthem and our flag being displayed, I believe many Americans want to do the right thing but aren't exactly sure what that is because they've never been taught.

Agreed, I don't get pissed off at the people who at least make an effort to pay respect to the flag and the anthem and just don't understand all the appropriate customs. It's only the people that flat out don't care that get my goat.

[Guest rotorhead]

Here is the original thread, from a while ago:

Rotorhead National Anthem Thread

Here is a link to the PowerPoint Show file I presented to the assembly, with lights dark, and room silent.

Be aware that it is 9mb.

AmericanAnthem.pps

[The Kayla]

Here is a link to the PowerPoint Show file I presented to the assembly, with lights dark, and room silent.

Be aware that it is 9mb.

AmericanAnthem.pps

That was awesome.. It brought tears to my eyes.

How do you guys feel about people trying to run and hide when retreat starts?

Edited November 1, 2008 by The Kayla

[bfargin]

Here is a link to the PowerPoint Show file I presented to the assembly, with lights dark, and room silent.

Be aware that it is 9mb.

Rotorhead,

Hey I have a friend who is the principal at the local HS, can I give your show to him to use for a school assembly one day? We talked about this issue a few weeks ago (he is former military as well).

Let me know if I need to display copyright/created by info., etc (if you give us permission).

Thanks,

brian

[donkey]

Very powerful Rotorhead, thank you.

[HuggyU2]

Last week, I went to my local high school football game. During the National Anthem, about 6 kids were grab-assing, and really cutting up. I was about 10' away. I gave it a few seconds in case they decided to KIO,... then broke from my position of attention, and very loudly chewed their asses for about 5 seconds. My reaction, while you could construe as disrespectful, got their attention,... and the attention of an otherwise quiet section. Should I have waited until the end? Maybe. But the impact on these kids was much stronger. I got a number of "Thank you"s from the crowd after the Anthem. I do this anytime I see it required.

The point that many folks do not know what to do is well taken. For example, many men place their hat over their heart, which is incorrect. I've announced two airshows now, and it's a "paid hobby" I'm probably going to pursue. I use my venue as an airshow announcer to remind folks what to do when the Anthem starts. Seems to work pretty well.

Rotorhead, I'd like to send this briefing to my local school district, and maybe use it elsewhere. Would that be ok?

[MD]

The point that many folks do not know what to do is well taken. For example, many men place their hat over their heart, which is incorrect. I've announced two airshows now, and it's a "paid hobby" I'm probably going to pursue. I use my venue as an airshow announcer to remind folks what to do when the Anthem starts. Seems to work pretty well.

See it often at, for example, auto races. Some people stand with their hand over their heart, but still have their hat on. So long as someone makes the effort to stand, be quiet, and at least try to do the right thing, I too have no real heartache with it. Agree, a reminder from the announcer would do well.

[NOLAflyer]

Just got back from an NBA game and thought about this thread when it came to the national anthem. At first, I am glad to report that the announcer not only request that everyone stand up, but also that they remove their hats. Awesome! unfortunately this was tainted by a couple in front and next to me who sat through the entire national anthem only to stand up when the mc of the game told everyone to get on their feet and stay there until the home team scored it's first points, which these two couples had no problem being a part of.

I was shocked. I don't think Ive ever seen anyone not stand for the national anthem whether they meant to as some sort of lame claim to beliefs or what but I was extremely dissappointed. I'd like to convince myself that perhaps these people, as mentioned in previous posts, just aren't educated in the respect that should be shown to your nations flag and anthem. However, I find it hard to believe that even the uneducated dont get the hint when 18,000 other fans are showing respect that they shouldn't do the same.

[KState_Poke22]

I actually almost got in a fight with a kid last year at an Oklahoma State football game. He didn't remove his hat during the anthem so I respectfully asked him to and he got pissed off at me and threatened me. I had my friend there to back me up so it didn't get past threats but I was mad.

At OK State games the announcer says please rise and remove your hats and veterans please salute during the National Anthem. I was confused as to why he said veterans salute until I read this post but it makes sense now.

[BQZip01]

powerful powerpoint presentation, dude.

[JeepGuyC17]

While it irks me to see people deliberately disrespecting the flag/anthem, I don't think I would yell at someone or get into a fight over it. While there are guidelines for civilians paying proper respect to the symbols of our freedom, that same freedom gives them the choice to either abide by those guidelines or not. It's part of what makes this country great that you can't be arrested for refusing to salute the flag etc. In places like North Korea and the previous Iraqi regime, you could probably get arrested or beaten or worse for showing any sign of disloyalty. Politely informing people of the proper etiquete is one thing, but being confrontational with people is only going to make them act defensive and want to get into a fight.

[Guest Cap-10]

I'm confused (result of having a caveman brain).

I've seen a few people post in this thread that people have the 'freedom' to decide if they respect the flag or not.

But the publication that talks about what you do toward the flag is US Code.

Isn't the US Code law??????

So if the US Code is indeed law, then people don't have the 'right' to decide which law they follow, just like they don't have the 'right' to decide not to follow the speed limit law(results in a ticket if they break the law).

If it is a law, your decision to break said law should have consequences.

Like a few people posted earlier, I don't have a problem with the people that are attempting to show their respect, it's the clowns shooting their mouths off or not standing at all that really work me into a rich lather.

Cap-10

[BQZip01]

I'm confused (result of having a caveman brain).

I've seen a few people post in this thread that people have the 'freedom' to decide if they respect the flag or not.

But the publication that talks about what you do toward the flag is US Code.

Isn't the US Code law??????

So if the US Code is indeed law, then people don't have the 'right' to decide which law they follow, just like they don't have the 'right' to decide not to follow the speed limit law(results in a ticket if they break the law).

If it is a law, your decision to break said law should have consequences.

Like a few people posted earlier, I don't have a problem with the people that are attempting to show their respect, it's the clowns shooting their mouths off or not standing at all that really work me into a rich lather.

Cap-10

It is a law with no prescribed consequences for breaking it. If it did have consequences, the law would be thrown out by the Supreme Court as suppression of Freedom of Speech. The same goes for the Pledge of Allegiance and proper display of the US flag.

Edited November 2, 2008 by BQZip01